Suspension Modifications F350

[eyemgh]

I split this off of the Best Platform thread, because that question was really answered. Now I need to figure out how to set it up.

I’ve settled on a truck, Super Duty 350 Super Cab, 8’ bed, 7.3, 4.30. What I’m struggling with is suspension modifications.

We travel alone, so we don’t tend to do much technical stuff. The last mile up to Big Four Mine across from the dunes in Panamint is about the edge of where we feel comfortable in a camper. We do drive a lot of wash boarded forest road and places like the Race Track in DVNP. We also drive quite a bit in the winter.

The camper we are going to get will weight in the neighborhood of 2200 pounds fully wet with gear according to Truck Camper Adventure Magazine estimates. We don’t need rock crawling crazy stuff, but more than anything want it to be safe both on and off road, and eat washboard.

The current camper has never been off the truck. We don’t even own jacks. We are retiring soon though, and will be on the road for longer stretches. The option to bring jacks and unload the new rig will be important.

So, here’s the questions. How much to lift? My gut says 2.5 with 35s. Spring pack or bags? I have no clue. I‘m staying away from anything like Tremor because it isn’t designed to be loaded. Plus, it’s not even available in the configuration we want. Any mods we do will be done at a very experienced specialty shop like CJC and not a random tire shop.

Getting close to having this thing dialed. Thanks for any and all input.

 

[1000arms]

I suggest you get your truck and camper, load it for a long trip, and try it out stock (even if just for some short trips). Why spend a bunch of money before even knowing if you need to make changes?

Keep in mind that unloading your camper from your truck will change how your truck handles. I suggest you leave your camper on your truck at all times.

Changing tire pressure changes suspension tuning. Changing speed changes suspension tuning. Changing weight changes suspension tuning.

Adjustable shocks and airbags can allow one to tune the suspension for the load, as can springs chosen for a specific load, but, the above three are cheap to do, especially if one is already planning to have onboard-air.

Who knows, you might decide that an additional 520 pounds of lead acid batteries is what you need for your camper electrical system, smooths out your ride, and improves traction in the winter?

I like running M+S tires year round, but dedicated snow tires are something to consider for the winter, especially with today's tire improvements.

The right tire chains, and the room in wheelwells to use them, are quite useful in snow/ice/mud. Tire chains are also required in some places.

.............................

Remember that slowing down and airing down can help a lot with washboard.

...........................

If you are absolutely certain that you have to change things, you might find the following useful:

Featured Vehicle: Goose Gear's Overland F-350 - Expedition Portal

It wasn’t all that long ago that many people would have laughed at the idea of a full-size truck for overlanding. But these days, they’re all the rage, and it’s not hard to understand why. While many mid-size trucks are struggling with a lack of power and feeble payloads, their siblings offer an...

expeditionportal.com

 

[eyemgh]

I suggest you get your truck and camper, load it for a long trip, and try it out stock (even if just for some short trips). Why spend a bunch of money before even knowing if you need to make changes?

Keep in mind that unloading your camper from your truck will change how your truck handles. I suggest you leave your camper on your truck at all times.

Changing tire pressure changes suspension tuning. Changing speed changes suspension tuning. Changing weight changes suspension tuning.

Adjustable shocks and airbags can allow one to tune the suspension for the load, as can springs chosen for a specific load, but, the above three are cheap to do, especially if one is already planning to have onboard-air.

Who knows, you might decide that an additional 520 pounds of lead acid batteries is what you need for your camper electrical system, smooths out your ride, and improves traction in the winter?

I like running M+S tires year round, but dedicated snow tires are something to consider for the winter, especially with today's tire improvements.

The right tire chains, and the room in wheelwells to use them, are quite useful in snow/ice/mud. Tire chains are also required in some places.

.............................

Remember that slowing down and airing down can help a lot with washboard.

...........................

If you are absolutely certain that you have to change things, you might find the following useful:

Featured Vehicle: Goose Gear's Overland F-350 - Expedition Portal

It wasn’t all that long ago that many people would have laughed at the idea of a full-size truck for overlanding. But these days, they’re all the rage, and it’s not hard to understand why. While many mid-size trucks are struggling with a lack of power and feeble payloads, their siblings offer an...

expeditionportal.com

Solid advice! (but I'll still read the linked thread )

If we were to unload it, it would just be for a short period of time if we were in a campground and needed to drive without breaking camp. That said, the probability of that is probably zero.

We do air down almost always if we're going to be on forest roads for any period at all. With the rapid deflator and Viair, there's really no reason not to.

We run Wildpeaks currently. They're a E rated triple peak, snowflake, year round tire. We'd stick with those or the Cooper equivalent. We also carry 4 wheel chains in the winter, and on occasion have had to use them. We avoid them like the plague though.

Thanks!

 

[Regcabguy]

With that combo I wouldn't settle for anything without a 3 ply sidewall. Toyo has that in their 35's of any diameter. I have the new AT3's and t they're a beast of a tire. The highway handling in adverse conditions has been reported to be very good with this upgraded version. I don't know if you can stuff a 35" under a Ford for a match.

 

[Explorerinil]

I got a f250 with a 7.3 , 4:30 gears and factory 35 inch tires (tremor). Ride is stiff but not harsh and it handles very well for what it is. Put a load in the bed and the truck rides awesome, I suggest Leaving it alone, put a camper in the bed and try it out. FYI you’ll love the 7.3 espically with 4:30 gears!

 

[GeorgeHayduke]

Since you're only looking to run 35s and go on non-technical trails you can probably get away with the factory height and no lift. I'd do a custom spring pack from Deaver or Alcan that's specific to your loaded weight, and get custom tuned King 2.5s to match. Maybe also take a look at the 7.3 F250 the TFLTruck guys built up with a FWC and a Carli suspension.

I‘m staying away from anything like Tremor because it isn’t designed to be loaded.

I totally understand if you want a cab/bed configuration different than the Tremor but
I'm not sure it's fair to say the Tremor "isn't designed to be loaded." My understanding is that it has basically just the '17-'19 F350 rear suspension from before they lowered the trucks in 2020. The Tremor comes with a rear sway bar but the regular F350 only has one if you elect for the camper package.

 

[rruff]

The Tremor comes with a rear sway bar but the regular F350 only has one if you elect for the camper package.

That seems very odd...

 

[GeorgeHayduke]

That seems very odd...

Actually I think you're right to be skeptical, looks like the Tremor does NOT have a rear sway bar. My mistake. Good info here: https://www.autoblog.com/2020/02/19/2020-ford-tremor-suspension-deep-dive-super-duty-f250/

 

[Trail Talk]

I’ve settled on a truck, Super Duty 350 Super Cab, 8’ bed, 7.3, 4.30. What I’m struggling with is suspension modifications.

We have the cab chassis version of this set-up so perhaps our experience over the past year might be helpful?

We travel alone, so we don’t tend to do much technical stuff. The last mile up to Big Four Mine across from the dunes in Panamint is about the edge of where we feel comfortable in a camper. We do drive a lot of wash boarded forest road and places like the Race Track in DVNP. We also drive quite a bit in the winter.

This is much like our use, especially active in winter. Dedicated winter studded tires have been critical for safe travel on unmaintained winter roads. KO2 summer tires are just fine and very quiet on the highway. Both are stock size and I don't dread having to change a tire.

The camper we are going to get will weight in the neighborhood of 2200 pounds fully wet with gear according to Truck Camper Adventure Magazine estimates. We don’t need rock crawling crazy stuff, but more than anything want it to be safe both on and off road, and eat washboard.

Our integrated cabin weighs 2700lbs dry (11,300 gvwr) and we find the suspension completely adequate. I also considered lift and larger tires but am glad we waited to gather some experience with the unit first. Adjusting tire pressures and speeds according to the road surface has worked great so, at this point, I'd only upgrade the shocks when the stock ones wear out and leave everything else alone.

Good luck with your build, its an awesome platform!

 

[eyemgh]

Since you're only looking to run 35s and go on non-technical trails you can probably get away with the factory height and no lift. I'd do a custom spring pack from Deaver or Alcan that's specific to your loaded weight, and get custom tuned King 2.5s to match. Maybe also take a look at the 7.3 F250 the TFLTruck guys built up with a FWC and a Carli suspension.


I totally understand if you want a cab/bed configuration different than the Tremor but
I'm not sure it's fair to say the Tremor "isn't designed to be loaded." My understanding is that it has basically just the '17-'19 F350 rear suspension from before they lowered the trucks in 2020. The Tremor comes with a rear sway bar but the regular F350 only has one if you elect for the camper package.

I‘m basing the statement about the Tremor on no personal knowledge, but rather a discussion with Ryan from Sherptek. He’s a mechanical engineer and they do a lot of suspension work. It was something about how the springs were designed. He said “That system is kind of opposite of what you want to do with a camper.” Why though, I can’t recall. Something about the progressivity of the springs or the sway bar maybe.

I saw that TFL build. It’s cool! They replaced everything but the kitchen sink though. I’m not sure what would be applicable for my specific needs.

I do want it to be capable of some technical things. We came out of JTNP through Berdoo Canyon in the Silverado. It’s bone stock except Helwig Helpers and Bilsteins. In the most technical section, our only option was a single, very tight line. With more clearance and articulation, multiple lines open through there. With this new truck it might be moot though. It’ll be 20” longer. I don’t seek those types of roads, but sometimes you encounter sections unexpectedly where you tackle them or turn around.

 

[eyemgh]

We have the cab chassis version of this set-up so perhaps our experience over the past year might be helpful?



This is much like our use, especially active in winter. Dedicated winter studded tires have been critical for safe travel on unmaintained winter roads. KO2 summer tires are just fine and very quiet on the highway. Both are stock size and I don't dread having to change a tire.



Our integrated cabin weighs 2700lbs dry (11,300 gvwr) and we find the suspension completely adequate. I also considered lift and larger tires but am glad we waited to gather some experience with the unit first. Adjusting tire pressures and speeds according to the road surface has worked great so, at this point, I'd only upgrade the shocks when the stock ones wear out and leave everything else alone.

Good luck with your build, its an awesome platform!

View attachment 679140

That‘s a cool rig! They make nice stuff. I considered a Camp-X, but no cassette is a deal breaker. Very high quality stuff though!

We run triple peak, snowflake, year round Wildpeaks on the Silverado. Prior to that truck, we’d always swapped out studded Hakkapeliittas. They’re beasts in the snow. The Wildpeaks are ok. They did get me around The Steens loop right before they closed for the winter and up and down the ski hill last winter. They’re not as planted as the Hakkas though.

 

[ramblinChet]

Your questions are along the same lines of ones I have had answered over the past several years while preparing to build my AEV/FWC RAM 3500.

I opted for the AEV Prospector kit which gave me 3" of suspension lift, 37" ATs, and appropriate front and rear bumpers. The primary accessory I had installed was a Warn 16.5ti winch. Soon I will have an ARB air locker installed in my front differential while keeping the factory limited slip in the rear. This combination should easily cover 99.997% of the miles I plan to travel on which are paved roads, maintained dirt and gravel roads and trails, and some unmaintained trails.

After three decades of moderate to extreme Jeeping al around these United Stated my goal has shifted from conquering challenging obstacles to safely dealing with ones that are unavoidable. This is the reason for a small suspension lift, slightly larger tires, a front locker and a winch. I am not going out into the woods looking to find axle-shaft-snapping rock gardens or frame bending climbs or descents - I am returning to nature to view nature's beauty in places few are able to.

Based upon all of my experience my most important tool is my winch. A winch, snatch block and other rigging can get you out of places that no lift or lockers can in a slow and controlled fashion. If I were forced to choose between a winch or suspension, tires and lockers I would take a winch hands down. In most cases just being pulled a few feet will get you back on your way again. Good luck with your build and share some pictures with us - here is the most recent once of mine:

 

[eyemgh]

Your questions are along the same lines of ones I have had answered over the past several years while preparing to build my AE/FWC RAM 3500.

I opted for the AEV Prospector kit which gave me 3" of suspension lift, 37" ATs, and appropriate front and rear bumpers. The primary accessory I had installed was a Warn 16.5ti winch. Soon I will have an ARB air locker installed in my front differential while keeping the factory limited slip in the rear. This combination should easily cover 99.997% of the miles I plan to travel on which are paved roads, maintained dirt and gravel roads and trails, and some unmaintained trails.

After three decades of moderate to extreme Jeeping al around these United Stated my goal has shifted from conquering challenging obstacles to safely dealing with ones that are unavoidable. This is the reason for a small suspension lift, slightly larger tires, a front locker and a winch. I am not going out into the woods looking to find axle-shaft-snapping rock gardens or frame bending climbs or descents - I am returning to nature to view nature's beauty in places few are able to.

Based upon all of my experience my most important tool is my winch. A winch, snatch block and other rigging can get you out of places that no lift or lockers can in a slow and controlled fashion. If I were forced to choose between a winch or suspension, tires and lockers I would take a winch hands down. In most cases just being pulled a few feet will get you back on your way again. Good luck with your build and share some pictures with us - here is the most recent once of mine:

View attachment 679141

Nice rig! I think if we didn’t have a dog, I’d opt for a standard cab and thus shorter wheelbase and lower weight.

We’re at a bit of a disadvantage. We don’t have any technical jeep experience. I don’t own a winch because I don’t know how to use one. I see shiny, unused winches, hi-lift jacks and shovels and think I don‘t want to be “that guy.” We really need to get some instruction, but I have no idea where to go and COVID has put the brakes on wanting to do any group learning.

 

[ramblinChet]

We’re at a bit of a disadvantage. We don’t have any technical jeep experience. I don’t own a winch because I don’t know how to use one. I see shiny, unused winches, hi-lift jacks and shovels and think I don‘t want to be “that guy.” We really need to get some instruction, but I have no idea where to go and COVID has put the brakes on wanting to do any group learning.

You make some very good points and although winches are rarely used by most owners - when they are needed they can literally be a life saver. I am not a fan of hi-lift jacks since they are very dangerous and have a very narrow range of applications. Your factory bottle jack with a spacer is a much more valuable tool.

Back to winches though, a few years ago at the James River Roof-Top Tent Rally in Virginia I attended an introductory winching class by Overland Experts. They provided a nice setting and covered a good amount of information. This intro class in this setting did not include a hands-on but maybe some of their other classes do. They offer training in a few different locations throughout the US. My guess is the Warn and maybe some others do also. Keep in mind that many industries also have crews out in remote areas which are in trucks equipped with winches so my guess is that if you dig around a bit you should be able to locate some great training.

And I will close with this - I have knowingly placed myself into situations where the 5" of lift, huge tires, lockers and even other vehicles were not able to even begin to move me. But my winch, snatch block and other rigging saved the day.

 

[eyemgh]

You make some very good points and although winches are rarely used by most owners - when they are needed they can literally be a life saver. I am not a fan of hi-lift jacks since they are very dangerous and have a very narrow range of applications. Your factory bottle jack with a spacer is a much more valuable tool.

Back to winches though, a few years ago at the James River Roof-Top Tent Rally in Virginia I attended an introductory winching class by Overland Experts. They provided a nice setting and covered a good amount of information. This intro class in this setting did not include a hands-on but maybe some of their other classes do. They offer training in a few different locations throughout the US. My guess is the Warn and maybe some others do also. Keep in mind that many industries also have crews out in remote areas which are in trucks equipped with winches so my guess is that if you dig around a bit you should be able to locate some great training.

And I will close with this - I have knowingly placed myself into situations where the 5" of lift, huge tires, lockers and even other vehicles were not able to even begin to move me. But my winch, snatch block and other rigging saved the day.

Looking forward to learning more. The new rig will certainly include a winch. Until then, we avoid situations the best we can where we could get in over our heads. Thanks!