SUWA takes Canyonlands ORV ban request to Washington
- Thread starter ttora4runner
- Start date
4x4x4doors
Explorer
So, apparently the way it works now:
Laws should be passed by the legislature.
If that does not result in the law you want, you have two choices
-Take it to a judge who will legislate from the bench OR
-Take it to an administrative channel which may provide regulations to accomplish what the legislature would not.
If a judge cannot/will not legislate or judicially accomplish what you want, go the adiministrative route.
If the administrator cannot/will not do what you want, go to court.
But in all cases, keep shopping unitl you get the response you want.
Seems kind of circular, rather than checks and balances to me.
Laws should be passed by the legislature.
If that does not result in the law you want, you have two choices
-Take it to a judge who will legislate from the bench OR
-Take it to an administrative channel which may provide regulations to accomplish what the legislature would not.
If a judge cannot/will not legislate or judicially accomplish what you want, go the adiministrative route.
If the administrator cannot/will not do what you want, go to court.
But in all cases, keep shopping unitl you get the response you want.
Seems kind of circular, rather than checks and balances to me.
PirateMcGee
Expedition Leader
Environmental policy/regulation on both sides is a cluster _ _ _ _
mannytranny
Observer
I'll admit to being excited about the prospects of backpacking out in near absolute solitude though...
:sombrero:
:sombrero:
bugnout
Adventurer
I'm all for your solitude, but why not go to a place that has already been closed to ORV traffic. There are many more places to do that than there are places for ORV's.
GaryMc
Explorer
There are?
ORV ban
Unfortunately, unlike many of us here, there are too many idiots with ORV's who act irresponsibly. Until we police ourselves, we have to expect this kind of reaction to our presence there.
I attended Overland Expo last weekend and while I was genuinely impressed by most of the attendees and exhibitors, there was that "I'm going to drive anywhere and any way I please" attitude present among a few.
Unfortunately, unlike many of us here, there are too many idiots with ORV's who act irresponsibly. Until we police ourselves, we have to expect this kind of reaction to our presence there.
I attended Overland Expo last weekend and while I was genuinely impressed by most of the attendees and exhibitors, there was that "I'm going to drive anywhere and any way I please" attitude present among a few.
cruiseroutfit
Well-known member
From California eh? Let me get my surprise face out :victory:
I'm excited about the prospects of being able to drive a historic road without the hikers 'back packing' down the middle of it
There is plenty existing solitude available in Southern Utah, SUWA is proof of that enough. Despite a growing number of OHV users, they continue to actually find more Wilderness each time they look lol
I've long since decided that SUWA gave up on actual wilderness like protection years ago (when they were offered millions of acres by the OHV community), its a money game... A finished 'mission' doesn't make a good fundraiser back east
To be fair the same could be said of both sides of the fence.
cruiseroutfit
Well-known member
While this mantra holds true for many OHV areas, Canyonlands is already off-limits to non-street legal rigs, i.e. atv's are not allowed. User impacts are extremely minimal in the area but that isn't enough. They won't stop until these 100+ year old routes are closed to all but hiking boots, utilized by few and corralling more into other areas. I don't believe that concentrating a growing number of user onto a dwindling amount of land is a sound land use ethic nor realistic strategy. Given the success of SUWA's wilderness proposals I'd say most agree
spressomon
Expedition Leader
Compromise isn't a word in their dictionary; hypocrite is...but they ignore that one . Its all about balance and compromise...except for the likes of SUWA and a few others. And now they want to circumnavigate the process without local/states involvement...
I find it interesting most if not all the members of SUWA, Sierra Club, etc. have no problem owning 1, 2, 3 or more motor vehicles; isn't this a supreme contradiction to their very creed??!!
They have no problem driving (or flying!) thousands or even tens of thousands of miles to: Hike, surf, bike, climb, etc. all in the name of being "green". Much less using a finite fuel that took millions of years to create. Sorry Patagonia and REI...this applies to you too. Conditional hypocrites?
For the record: Long before I started exploring our wonderful lands via motorized vehicle, a few years ago, I did it via (and still do!) bicycle and by foot. Obviously they weren't brought up to share.
Its a good time for us to become more vocal, send a few e-mails and support the groups that fight on our behalf: Blue Ribbon Coalition for one (I just re-upped my membership).
. Its all about balance and compromise...except for the likes of SUWA and a few others. And now they want to circumnavigate the process without local/states involvement...I find it interesting most if not all the members of SUWA, Sierra Club, etc. have no problem owning 1, 2, 3 or more motor vehicles; isn't this a supreme contradiction to their very creed??!!
They have no problem driving (or flying!) thousands or even tens of thousands of miles to: Hike, surf, bike, climb, etc. all in the name of being "green". Much less using a finite fuel that took millions of years to create. Sorry Patagonia and REI...this applies to you too. Conditional hypocrites?
For the record: Long before I started exploring our wonderful lands via motorized vehicle, a few years ago, I did it via (and still do!) bicycle and by foot. Obviously they weren't brought up to share.
Its a good time for us to become more vocal, send a few e-mails and support the groups that fight on our behalf: Blue Ribbon Coalition for one (I just re-upped my membership).
maxingout
Adventurer
One of the things I liked the most about my Arabian adventures was unrestricted access to the land.
One of the things I like the least about my own country is the heavily regulated and restricted access to the land. You almost need to be a lawyer to sort it out what you can do and where you can go.
America is not a green country. During the last great energy crisis, the speed limit was 55 mph on the highways. In our present energy crisis, people cruise on the highways at 75 to 80 mph here in Arizona. If this country was serious about energy, they would drop the speed limit to 55 mph and realize an instant and massive savings in energy.
I had a green lifestyle when I sailed around the world on my catamaran with two wind generators and four solar panels. When I returned to "civilization" after being away for 28 years overseas, I was shocked that the speed limit was 75 mph on the highways and people were purchasing "carbon credits" because of their excessive energy use.
When green people restrict land use, they are only restricting those who obey the rules and care about the land. The destroyers will still go out and wreak havoc on public lands because they don't care about the rules.
On a positive note, when offroad travel is illegal everwhere in my own country, it will be a great excuse to drive around the world in my Land Rover Defender.
One of the things I like the least about my own country is the heavily regulated and restricted access to the land. You almost need to be a lawyer to sort it out what you can do and where you can go.
America is not a green country. During the last great energy crisis, the speed limit was 55 mph on the highways. In our present energy crisis, people cruise on the highways at 75 to 80 mph here in Arizona. If this country was serious about energy, they would drop the speed limit to 55 mph and realize an instant and massive savings in energy.
I had a green lifestyle when I sailed around the world on my catamaran with two wind generators and four solar panels. When I returned to "civilization" after being away for 28 years overseas, I was shocked that the speed limit was 75 mph on the highways and people were purchasing "carbon credits" because of their excessive energy use.
When green people restrict land use, they are only restricting those who obey the rules and care about the land. The destroyers will still go out and wreak havoc on public lands because they don't care about the rules.
On a positive note, when offroad travel is illegal everwhere in my own country, it will be a great excuse to drive around the world in my Land Rover Defender.