The error of my ways / good mpg 4x4 Motorhome-in-a-phonebooth concept

[77blazerchalet]

Here's where I went wrong: my parents had RVs devoted exclusively to vacationing, after college the most I could afford was tent camping out of my hatchback, and when I finally got extra money a few years ago I bought the first small-ish 4x4 pure RV I could find that was really snazzy. Well, "old iron" Chalets sure are unique, but RVs are banned from parking at my apartment complex, I have to store it at my parents' RV lot across town and work on it there, it gets 9-10 mpg, and ya can't haul big things in the back of it like a TV, office chair, etc. It's camper, not good for much else.

Limited cash reserves and high gas prices cause me to conclude: I need to scale up my car camping ways, not scale down an RV idea. Ditch the tent, though, and find a 4 door 4x4 high/low range SUV, remove the back and passenger seats (temporarily), engineer a flat place to sleep, put in a tiny fridge, pack in the rest of the necessary boondocking camp items, and there you have it: something that goes much further up those Colorado Rockies dirt roads than my VW GTI, and is a place to sleep in overnight that bears and other scary varmints have a tougher time getting into. No need anymore to set up a tent in a downpour or put it away all soggy the next morning. After the vacation, the SUV could serve as a daily driver & "stuff" hauler for my upcoming freelance business.

Up to or even beyond 18 mpg would be very nice. Not overly annoying to drive between Phoenix and Colorado is a must. Considering my choices of moderate 4x4 roads, I'd think a slightly altered SUV would suit my purposes, if it can handle a receiver hitch carrier on the back to carry a 225lb offroad motorcycle. After a few days surfing through various Expo threads, a Land Rover Discovery 1 or 2, Nissan Xterra / Pathfinder, Isuzu Trooper, Jeep Liberty, Suzuki Vitara / XL7, and Toyota 4Runner more or less cover those requirements. I like the Suzukis for having such short hoods and better mileage, but I'd probably have to have to trailer or caster wheel the motorcycle, while the others suffer to varying degrees in mileage. Discos look really neat, but do no better than 15-16 mpg? Isuzus are the only ones where a diesel is an option? But a diesel may not be cost effective anymore considering the cost difference with gas...

Then there's the economic opportunity costs - insurance may be lower for one over the other, a lower priced Disco with worse mpg could still offset a high priced better mpg Xterra, for example.

All of this contingent on my sale of the Chalet. I'll be keeping a good eye on the "Expedition Vehicles for Sale" forum, finding something here may be infinitely better than the local Phoenix Craigslist. Y'all feel free to steer me toward something and away from others, let me know if I am overlooking a good choice. No little truck campers, please. To me, "motorhome" means being able to move from the driver's seat to the rest of the vehicle with no impediment. Not considering a rooftop tent, either.

 

[chet]

you also have to look at future potential for mods. my XL7 although great has a very limited aftermarket. ie no rear locker, bumpers etc. I can sleep in it but the rear seats do9 not make a very flat floor.

I would go for a 4 cyl 4 runner. good mileage, great reliability and excellent aftermarket.

 

[77blazerchalet]

AWD Chevy Astro van, perhaps?..[/url]

I pursued that a bit, see this thread and also note my brother's (parents' former) Tiger Provan in post #5 there. Ruled out a 4x4 Tiger possibility for not being able to withstand rocky rough roads, but haven't necessarily ruled out an Astro 4x4 conversion with 2-speed transfer case, except they might cost more than I want to spend compared to ready-to-go SUVs.

 

[Bergger]

I'm a real fan of the 2nd Gen Xterra. It's great to sleep in with the fold flat rear seats, has good storage space, is awesome off road, can be had with a factory rear locker, the 6M gets 21 mpg hwy, very comfy to drive and the engine is a beast. I'm 6'2" and both my wife and I sleep comfortable in the back. Set up for a solo trip you could easily fit a fridge/storage area and have room for you to sleep. We got ours brand new, off road model with 6M for 24k. I bet you could get an even better deal now or check the used market.

 

[blue94yj]

I have a diesel liberty and for me any ways there is no way to sleep in the back. It's shorter then you would think back there even with the seats folded down. So it may have to come off the list.

 

[77blazerchalet]

you also have to look at future potential for mods. my XL7 although great has a very limited aftermarket....

I thought so, at first I'd not even considered Suzukis until I saw "jeffryscott"s thread, which is probably as far as I would want to mod an SUV. There's a Grand Vitara in my apt parking lot, short li'l bugger it is...

I'm a real fan of the 2nd Gen Xterra...bet you could get an even better deal..check the used market.

Super quick check of eBay shows several stock 2005 buy-it-nows for $11-$12 grand. "KevX02" has a 1st gen for sale here for $10 grand, with a nice bit of 'Expo-style' work done to it. That's about at the top end of my budget, I suppose, his is a good example of plug & play for me considering the price. An advantage of something for sale here over bone stock eBay / Craigslist / and most newspaper classifieds..

I have a diesel liberty and for me any ways there is no way to sleep in the back. It's shorter then you would think back there even with the seats folded down. So it may have to come off the list.

The alternative I envision (may not be actually feasible in some) is the temporary removal of the front seat and rear seats and something clever engineered to allow sleeping oriented front to back - or keep the back seats if they fold flat to the back floor and have a 'continued' flat area forward where the front seat was. The idea came from some PT Cruiser's fold flat front seat which supposedly allows an 8 foot long flat front-to-back area... So my next goal is to gather all the fold flat rear seat / ease of seat removal info on these...

 

[haven]

I think that the problem with the XTerra and Jeep Liberty size vehicles is that there's not enough room inside to carry your gear and provide a place to sleep. You'll have to pile your gear on the ground outside the vehicle to make enough room. You might build a drawer system to help organize things, but getting into bed would be like climbing through a mail slot!

The compact/midsize Toyota and Nissan pickups with a cap over the bed will provide enough vertical space for gear storage down below, and a sleeping space above. A.R.E makes a commercial pickup cap with lots of options useful for camping. Configure it the way you want here:
http://www.4are.com/product/dcu/build/final.php

The alternative to sleeping inside is the rooftop tent, as seen on so many ExPo vehicles.

Chip Haven

 

[jcbrandon]

Pickup with a shell on it?

How 'bout a pickup truck with a shell on it? I've spent many dozens of comfortable nights in the back of my Dodge Dakota. I've got a Bed Rug back there and a Snugtop shell. I can sit up to get dressed and not bang my head. The big ol' load bay is easily configurable with modular bins. Everything stays out of the weather and is reasonably secure.

The truck is comfortable on the highway at 80 miles per hour and it has full-time four wheel drive, a two-speed transfer case, limited slip in the rear axle, and 31-inch tires.

And when I'm not camping it's a comfortable daily driver and errand-runner. Plus it will tow a medium-sized trailer.

 

[77blazerchalet]

Chip and J.C. - I owned a pickup that came with a shell, and I ditched the shell a week later because the lack of rear visibility drove me nuts. That's just me, others aren't fazed by such a thing. Not saying a 4 door SUV is any great improvement, but their rear side windows are larger. And, a pickup isn't "motorhomish" to me because I would have to exit the vehicle to get into the back - annoying in a big rainstorm. And if, heavens forbid, I should need to make a hasty retreat from my camp area, I'd have to get out of the back and race around to the driver's seat.

As for Liberty's, the 2002 brochure photo below shows I could sleep in there but only after the front seat is removed - the length of the yellow area is equal to the nearly 72 inch width of a Liberty, using this photo as a guide and guestimating a bit on where the outside panels would be. And, I happen to need 72 inches to stretch out comfortably. I could actually sleep this way in my VW, except the rear seat doesn't fold anywhere near flat, and I never looked at how the front seat comes out.... Other SUVs gain a bit in overall length, but I don't know how much that translates to rear cargo length in each. If the passenger seat in those others can be shoved fairly far forward, it may not have to come out.

Trust me, after 20 years, I have compact hatchback camping down to an organized science. (Ignore the paddles in the photo, by the way, and imagine both seats folded down...)

 

[Mobryan]

What about an older Suby wagon or AMC Eagle wagon??? Back in the late 80's, my old man built a SX/4 hatchback with 2 speed Quadratrac, small suspension lift and rear l/s. Anything you couldn't crawl over, just roll back, hammer down and BOUNCE

We've had a number of different Eagles before and since, all worked well and weren't too hard to work on, unless it was swapping out a 258 :littlefriend: :littlefriend:


Matt

 

[dhackney]

It looks like you have your requirements/criteria very well sorted out and established. Once you get some candidate vehicles try running them through this criteria model to see how they score on matching your needs/wants: http://www.hackneys.com/travel/docs/oevcriteria.xls

Then there's the economic opportunity costs - insurance may be lower for one over the other, a lower priced Disco with worse mpg could still offset a high priced better mpg Xterra, for example.

As you pointed out, insurance and other operational costs can make a big difference in the cost of the ownership experience. And, as you are discovering with the Chalet, the residual value of a vehicle and other associated costs of sale can dramatically affect the total cost of ownership.

Try running your candidate vehicles through this Total Cost of Ownership model to see how they compare: http://www.hackneys.com/travel/docs/oevtco-overview.pdf

Between the two models you will have quantifiable and empiricle data to help you make a decision. You will then need to add in the non-quantifiable and subjective factors (brand experience, styling, etc.). I can't help you there...

 

[Bergger]

I think that the problem with the XTerra and Jeep Liberty size vehicles is that there's not enough room inside to carry your gear and provide a place to sleep. You'll have to pile your gear on the ground outside the vehicle to make enough room. You might build a drawer system to help organize things, but getting into bed would be like climbing through a mail slot!

I'd have to disagree as far as the Xterra goes. At least with the 2nd generation. I have no experience with the first gen. For a single camper the Xterra is great imo. The thing I really like about it is how easy it is to convert the rear area to a fold flat sleeping platform. The rear seat bottoms remove with the pull of two handles. It can be put back just as easy. No unscrewing anything. Also the front passenger side seat has a fold flat "table" mode as well. It is also a bit wider than the old model. I lay down a 4" self inflating mattress and sleep very comfortably in it. I think you could still have room for a single drawer system with a fridge mounted on top it that. It also has a full time 12v outlet in the back which is nice. Having slept in both the Xterra and a compact pickup with a topper, to me the Xterra has a much roomier feel to it. The pickup was more coffin like and more difficult to get in and out of.

 

[granitex1]

I have spent many a nice night sleeping in the back of my first gen Xterra. For all out comfort an full size inflateable, will fill the entire back end for two people (without cargo), or you can sleep on one half by folding down the back seat. I use a cheap cot that fits in the half after I put the passanger seat forward a couple of inches. I would use a bedroll but as I get older I like my comfort. The cot I picked up for something like $9.00 at an army surpluss place, but they can be found just about anywhere.

 

[77blazerchalet]

What about an..AMC Eagle wagon???..

From "kcowyo" 's thread - AMC Eagles in post #8 here. Jeep (AMC) drivetrain, right? Hmm, interesting idea.

...try running them through this criteria model to see how they score on matching your needs/wants: http://www.hackneys.com/travel/docs/oevcriteria.xls..

Impressive comparison thingy, I'll pop it into my PC (all my internet stuff is done on this iMac) and see how it works.

For me, and maybe others reading this who are wondering about how to achieve the ultimate expo camping nirvana, this is all about rounding up as much info as possible, stir and shake until the best solutions rise to the top. That's what's to fun about this web site, so many post their own personal experiences with the various vehicles. Incorrect assumptions on my part are set straight, other ideas I hadn't thought of pop up, and you guys freely give insightful tips that would have been otherwise hard to find via google searches. There's a ton of useful info in lotsa threads here!

 

[theMec]

And if, heavens forbid, I should need to make a hasty retreat from my camp area, I'd have to get out of the back and race around to the driver's seat.

You've probably thought of this but you're probably going to have stuff sitting outside anyway. Also if you bring your girlfriend, you'll definitely have stuff outside so you have to go outside to pack anyway. Or it's all in the front seats and front floors so you have to go outside to toss it in the back.

I know because I did the "sleep in the SUV thing" (landcruiser fj60) for 18 years. Mostly w/ my wife or other climbing partners.

Good luck. Figuring it all out is one of the fun parts.