Tire grade for Tacoma with old Skamper

[Stereo]

I'm preparing my 1st gen 4WD Tacoma to accept an '80's circa pop-top Skamper which will put me close to maximum weight. I've ordered Firestone Ride-Rites (air bags) and will be installing Bilstein 5100 shocks. Now I have to decide on tires. I'm getting bleary-eyed from reading surveys and posts but I'm leaning towards the Firestone Destinations. They're highly rated on TireRack and people seem happy with their traction in all the conditions I need them for: deep snow and light 4-wheeling on forest roads. Another selling point is that I can get them in my size tire (265 70R16) whereas some of the other tires brands call for a 75R16.

My question for you is what grade tire to choose, the SL (sedan/light truck) or the D rating. A camper mfg recommended the D but I've also read elsewhere that lower-rated tires (like P=passenger) can handle the weight just fine and make for a more comfortable ride. I'm a stickler for maximizing gas efficiency so I'm assuming the lighter tire would also yield better gas mileage. But being new to 4-wheeling, perhaps there's something else I should know. Your advice?

The Destination A/T specs for the different ratings are:
111S SL 2403 lbs max 44 psi max
D-rating 2835 lbs max 65 psi max

My findings on other tires:
BF Goodrich A/T: expensive, noisy
Toyo Open Country: not great in snow
Kumho: some complained about poor wear
Falken High Country: ditto
Hankook Dynapro: not highly rated on the TireRack
Goodyear Duratrak: lots of followers but it's rated E and designed for full-sized trucks so it's overkill for my Taco
Yokohama Geolander: seems like a decent tire at a good price but it's not available in my preferred tire size

Thank you for your help.

 

[HMR]

DO NOT even think of going with anything less than a "D" rated tire for that load.

Yokohama Geolander: seems like a decent tire at a good price but it's not available in my preferred tire size

I was so impressed with the performance of the "D" rated Geolanders I purchased for our Tiger (all wheel drive mini-motorhome) that I had them installed on our Tacoma and Land Rover, too. Heck, I might even put them on our Subaru when it's time for new shoes. It's an excellent tire.

PS- Welcome to Expo!

 

[Stereo]

HMR - Can you please educate me (as a newbie to carrying a camper) as to why a D-rated tire is necessary if a P tire's load rating is adequate for the weight? I appreciate the information.

Also, I just discovered that the Goodyear Duratrac comes in a C-rated tire in a 265 75R16, but some complain they're hard to balance, or that Goodyear "can't make a round tire." They also look like they'd get worse gas mileage than the Firestone. I also looked at the Bridgestone Revo 2 which lots of people raved about but some complained about reduced gas mileage so I steered away from it. Experiences anyone?

 

[Stan@FourWheel]

I wouldn't worry too much about the gas miles difference between a passenger tire and a D rated tire.

Once you put the camper on the truck your gas mileage is going to go down anyway.

Think staibility & safety first, and gas mileage second.

If you are not going to haul anything in the truck bed, the passenger tires are just fine for daily driving.

But if you are going to put a pop-up camper (approx 1000 lbs. ++) on the back of the truck, the D rated or an E rated set of tires will help SO much.

With the D or E rated tires you will probably have better puncture resistance as well if you plan on doing off-road driving.

I'm all for saving money and getting better gas mileage, but tires and the rear suspension upgrade are very important when you are carrying a camper in the truck.

I have had a few sets of tires on my Ford F-150 (passenger tires, D rated off road tires, and E rated highway style tires).

I have had pop-up campers and also a full sized cabover camper on it at times.

Without the better rated tires, the passenger style tires will "SQUAT" once the camper is loaded on the truck.

(Example: when we have customers come in with a brand new Tacoma, their new truck has brand new basic tires on it, tires are pumped to the max pressure, rear suspension upgrade done, camper going on truck, sometimes the tires "squat" looking like the tire pressure is low, but the tires are really at the max. pressure. Many customers look at the tires and ask . . . "do I need to add some air in the tires?").


If the camper is an important part of your future travels, invest a few extra dollars in some good tires.

I think it will usually be a "pay now, or pay later" kind of thing.


Happy Camping !


.


.

 

[SLO_F-250]

But if you are going to put a pop-up camper (approx 1000 lbs. ++) on the back of the truck, the D rated or an E rated set of tires will help SO much.

That hurts Stan! haha 875lbs wet, or that is what my sticker says! :sombrero: FWC one day.... :drool:

Stereo,

I was wondering what happened to the Skamper. How are all the fixes going?

I agree 100% with the guys above. You want D rated tire. The will hold up to the additional weight and abuse you are going induce with the camper on the truck. Personally I have Kumo Road Ventures and have been very happy with them so far.

Good luck and post some picts of the setup! :ylsmoke:

 

[tanglefoot]

Hi--I'm about 20 miles SE of you. Welcome!

I have D-rated tires as well with a similar-vintage ('88) wooden construction pop-up. 50psi in the back tires supports the weight well and I haven't had any tire problems.

I use the BFG All-terrains. I wouldn't consider them noisy. They're more expensive than some but less than others. Mine were used and they've been on for over 5 years--I don't think they'll ever wear out. I haven't even rotated them since I got them. They're nice and tough with the 3-ply sidewalls (many tires only have 2 sidewall plies).

I have run P-metric tires in the past before I had the camper on. Not long after putting them on, I was just rambling along a mining road (near Minturn) and the RF tire decided it didn't want air in it anymore. We heard the hissing, stopped, got out and watched the truck settle onto the rim. A rock shard had wedged its way under a tread block and let all the air out. The hole was too big to repair--I had to replace the tire. Many Colorado trails are covered with sharp, rock shards from the mechanical weathering of the formations and the mining activity. It's good to run tough tires and carry a good spare. I also like having a plug kit and compressed air source along.

I've never had any issues with a D-rated tire. I wouldn't hesitate to go with an E-rating either, but I have 15" wheels.

I'm a stickler for fuel economy too and with a stiffer tire and quite a bit of air pressure, I believe the rolling resistance is lower than a squishier, lighter-duty tire. I think rolling resistance is a bigger factor than small differences in tire weight. Also, the P-metric tires are not rated for as high of air pressure, so it's not as safe to really air them up.

Also, the aerodynamics change quite a bit with the camper. I made a V-shaped air dam between the cab roof and camper cab-over to help deflect the air out to the sides--it feels like it cuts the wind a little better and it's certainly quieter.

Are you waiting for the forest service roads to open up too? It might take a little while this year. I stay glued to this page to see when they open the gates:

http://www.fs.usda.gov/wps/portal/f...et Determined.Html&ttype=detail&pname=Arapaho

Eric

 

[Jeff Wanamog]

How about airing down the tires when off road?
With a FWC Eagle on a Tacoma and E rated tires, how low can you go?

Jeff

 

[tanglefoot]

Jeff,

With the E-range tires, the sidewalls are stiff enough that you can go a little lower with air pressure. With the camper weight though, I wouldn't go any lower than 15 psi with E's or 20 psi with D's.

I don't air down on the trail any more. The extra weight softens the ride plenty and puts enough pressure on the tire footprints. If I were to get stuck in sand, I would air down, but so far, I've never gone lower than 50 psi back, 40 front since I've gotten the camper.

 

[DT75FLH]

The Destination A/T specs for the different ratings are:
111S SL 2403 lbs max 44 psi max
D-rating 2835 lbs max 65 psi max

My findings on other tires:
BF Goodrich A/T: expensive, noisy
Toyo Open Country: not great in snow
Kumho: some complained about poor wear
Falken High Country: ditto
Hankook Dynapro: not highly rated on the TireRack
Goodyear Duratrak: lots of followers but it's rated E and designed for full-sized trucks so it's overkill for my Taco
Yokohama Geolander: seems like a decent tire at a good price but it's not available in my preferred tire size

Thank you for your help.

My friend worked at a firestone dealer for close to 20 yrs. the firestone destintion will chunk on gravel roads...not the greatest.
both of us run toyo tires if it tells you anything :sombrero:

I'm suprised the toyos suck in snow? maybe the toyo open country muds but the toyo open country AT works good. If you run them at max pressure while in the snow they will slide a little but properly inflated for your weight they should be fine.

my other friend runs toyo at's on his ram diesel with an empty bed in chicago with out complaint. I love them. and I have run bfg MT and AT for about 15 years before switching to toyos. they are strong, wear good etc. my only complaint would be they last a little less than a bfg tire.

 

[Stereo]

Shocks?

This forum is SO helpful. Thanks to all of you for lending your expertise. D-rated tires it is. Since most of the months I'll have an empty truck bed, I'm reluctant to go with E.

NEW QUESTION: The guy I bought my Taco from gave me a full set of Bilstein shocks his buddy gave him. Two are brand new, the other two came off a TRD. My Toyota dealership is running a 4 for 3 special on tires so I'm checking their prices but their quote for installing shocks at the same time was $300 for the front alone, and another $100+ for the rear. I'm definitely putting them on the rear to help with the camper load, but can I get away with keeping stock shocks on the front?

SLO_F-250, sorry for the silence. My free time has been devoted to finishing a fence install from recycled panels, and with gardening (Transplanting by work light 'till 10:30 p.m. last night to beat today's rain). However, I finally did get to the crank fix and took a little different approach to what we discussed. I'll post pics soon. I've also installed the hold-downs on my truck but the air bags are sitting in the corner waiting to be installed so I haven't put the camper on yet.

Tanglefoot, it's great to have a resource for local conditions. Thank you for the link. This truck is my first 4WD so I'm REALLY excited to be able to access new locations nearby. I'm kinda tired of the same old hiking trails. With the poptop, I'll be able to head out Friday nights and pull into forest access areas after dark without having to pitch tent, then get a jump on the crowds the next morning without waking up at dawn. SWEET! But you're right, the deep snowpack will delay the season.

Again, thanks to EVERYONE who's giving me advice. I'll be asking for more information about regulating air pressure depending on conditions. I'm ignorant about that other than to understand that dropping the pressure apparently helps with traction in some conditions and maybe helps avoid punctures??

 

[Overland Hadley]

On trips my Tacoma is something around 6k.

The current set of shoes are BFG AT rated at D, the next set (already purchased, have you seen the price of rubber?) are BFG AT rated E.

Welcome to ExPo!

 

[tanglefoot]

If your truck rides fine, you can get away with the original shocks on the front. The camper doesn't add much load to the front. I think mine actually lifts up the front a little since it's an 8-foot.

For the rear shocks, I wouldn't pay someone to replace those. They're easy to access and unbolt--just crawl under there with a socket wrench. If the bolts won't break loose, soak them in penetrating oil for a few hours. You can even re-use the original bushings if the new shocks don't have them. The front shocks are trickier since they are inside the coil springs, and I think they might even be coil-overs where the springs need to be removed to replace the shocks.

With tire pressure, on trails with large rocks, low tire pressure helps the tread wrap around the rock surface and pull you over. It also helps soften the ride. It increases the likelihood of tire damage though and risks having the tire unseat from the wheel. Low tire pressure is helpful on surfaces where flotation is needed like deep sand.

4WD clubs always make a big thing about congregating at the trail head to air down tires. For very challenging, rocky trails, it can be helpful but I think it's become more of a socializing and rig-oggling opportunity. I think it's obnoxious and makes landowners and other trail users grumpy when 4wd's are parked all over the place for 20+ minutes with air hissing out and people hammering apart their sway-bar links. It takes a while and then requires airing them back up for the street. I probably haven't aired down in almost 10 years. I stay on milder trails though.

 

[SLO_F-250]

If your truck rides fine, you can get away with the original shocks on the front. The camper doesn't add much load to the front. I think mine actually lifts up the front a little since it's an 8-foot.

For the rear shocks, I wouldn't pay someone to replace those. They're easy to access and unbolt--just crawl under there with a socket wrench. If the bolts won't break loose, soak them in penetrating oil for a few hours. You can even re-use the original bushings if the new shocks don't have them. The front shocks are trickier since they are inside the coil springs, and I think they might even be coil-overs where the springs need to be removed to replace the shocks.

With tire pressure, on trails with large rocks, low tire pressure helps the tread wrap around the rock surface and pull you over. It also helps soften the ride. It increases the likelihood of tire damage though and risks having the tire unseat from the wheel. Low tire pressure is helpful on surfaces where flotation is needed like deep sand.

4WD clubs always make a big thing about congregating at the trail head to air down tires. For very challenging, rocky trails, it can be helpful but I think it's become more of a socializing and rig-oggling opportunity. I think it's obnoxious and makes landowners and other trail users grumpy when 4wd's are parked all over the place for 20+ minutes with air hissing out and people hammering apart their sway-bar links. It takes a while and then requires airing them back up for the street. I probably haven't aired down in almost 10 years. I stay on milder trails though.

Pretty much exactly what tanglefoot said. I'm pretty sure on your year Tacoma that the front stock suspension is a coil over setup. Feel free to chime in Yota owners They are actually easy to work on/ switch out. I am not sure though if you can just replace the shock. You might have to replace the whole coilover. I would suggest saving your $$ for now and waiting for a used craigslist find or saving your $$ for a shock upgrade and coilover conversion kit from Racrunner of King (Im sure there are others) For the rear shocks, its 4 bolts. Don't pay anyone $100 to switch them out. Its a 30min job at most.

Post some picts of you fix's! Im anxious to see what you came up with Stereo!

 

[Stinger202]

I had Michelin D series on my 98 4 x 4 Taco Extended Cab with a Sun Lite Popup in the back. Went over 125K with that rig and no complaints what so ever. Stinger 202

 

[Stereo]

Thanks for the great tips and education - and especially for saving me money! I had asked a friend if he could help me with the shocks, but he said he'd need a special tool for the springs and I thought that was true for front and back. I'm embarrassed to say I never took a close look at them or I hope I would have realized the rear shocks were different. I'll be changing them out myself!