Used all arounder: 100 Series or 200 (depreciation and driving dynamics query)

[OffToTheSide]

Folks,

New member Mawgie here. I have been a longtime lurker on this Forum, and appreciate all the great information. I would appreciate some input.

I am a two vehicle guy (a daily driver car plus an SUV or pickup), and am considering the purchase of a used Landcruiser to replace my current pickup. I daily drive a Volvo XC70 T6 Polestar, and am keeping that. My current truck is a 2014 Dodge Ram 1500 Crew Cab 4x4 (got a great deal and it runs well, but I have no love for it). I tend to swap vehicles every couple of years, and always buy used.

I am thinking about going back to an SUV. Two years back I had a Gen5 T4R (loaded SR5). Didn't bond with it, but am a big Toyota truck fan. I have wanted a Landcruiser for many years, but have never tried one.

I will use the rig in rotation with my daily ride for street riving; plus hunting trips (some dirt roads, farm laneways, and light offroading; all in 4 wheel high range), and some truck camping in the Adirondacks and Canada. My plan is to add a matching utility trailer for the many DIY projects I undertake. Given that I tend not too keep my rigs for a very long time, I always look at resale before I buy the truck, and try to choose in a way that minimizes my depreciation hit. (Obviously, I certainly don't need the extreme offroad capability of the Landcruiser, a Tahoe or Sequoia would be plenty, but I want a Landcruiser. )

Dead nuts reliability is essential for anything I own. I do minor wrenching myself: fluids, trim, sound deadening, paint repair, trim removal, simple electrical/mechanical, but nothing too heavy/complex.

I suspect that my driving preference will be for the modernity of the 200 Series over the 100 Series. On the other hand, I'll be driving the LC, realistically, no more than 8-9000 miles a year, max. So, the 100 Series driving experience may be fine, too.

A 2008 to 2009 200 Series on cars.com runs in the mid to high 20k purchase price range. I suspect that these early 200 Series prices will dip down to about $20,000 over the next several years, and the decent ones will bottom out there. The 100 Series trucks are obviously getting harder and harder to find with lowish miles. Any 100 Series on cars.com with 100k miles or less is premium priced, meaning over $20k.

Over $20k for a minty, low miles 100 Series sounds like too much. I suspect I would be better served to just spend $5000-7500 more for a 200 Series.
Alternatively, I could go for a 100 Series with closer to 150k miles but in superb condition, for let's say, around $15,000 all in (water pump, timing belt, fresh battery done, etc).

My thought is that a late in the model year run 100 Series, comprehensively serviced, is a strong buy from a depreciation standpoint. Last of the classic, the 5 speed tranny, and a low enough price point so that lots of folks can pay cash for them and pick them up as secondary/recreational rigs.

I am curious if any folks here have recently been down the path of a 100 vs 200 Series used purchase, as a secondary and comparatively light duty utility rig, with an eye toward depreciation/resale. If so, which Series did you pick and why?

Any input would be most appreciated.

Thanks- Mawgie

 

[JLee]

I would go for a 100-series around 200k for $6-8k. Depreciation will be minimal and they're absurdly reliable.

I would love a 200 (for the 5.7, primarily), but can't justify the cost. Last fall, I bought an 05 GX470 with 179k (120-series) for $8150. When the 200's are down to $15-18k, I might be tempted...but for now, I really love what I have.

 

[v_man]

I just picked up an 07' LX 470 that was right in that 150,000 mile range. The 06-07 has the vvti motor so a little more horsepower and torque there. There is also a much stronger modification aftermarket for the 100 series as opposed to the 200 series.

The fact that not many LC's or LX's were sold is always going to mean there's a low supply and relatively high demand for them. If you're worried about depreciation, I think the 100 series is a great vehicle to get into ...

 

[Upland80]

200 series. Does everything the 100 does but better.

 

[MTSN]

I waited for a couple years for the 200 series to drop in value thinking it would be easy to find a nice clean early one in the low $20s. I looked at probably 8-10 that were absolutely trashed with high miles and ended up selling for somewhere in the $30s and gave up for a while. I ended up buying a 2014 for a decent price that was very clean and already had good mods, but it was not cheap by any stretch - it is worth it however. If you can find a clean one with good service/Carfax history that you can afford, it's an incredible vehicle. I also loved my 100 and think it's excellent as well, but it would be hard to go back to one after getting used to the power and other comforts of the 200. I have nearly 4x the money into my 200 as I sold my very nice low mile 100, and I'll be honest the 200 isn't 4x better but it is better in every single way.

 

[OffToTheSide]

Thanks for the replies, folks. I ran some nationwide searches on cars.com and came up with some data points that may be of use to someone.

200 Series:
2008-2011 LC 200s, any mileage, priced between $15,000 and $30,000. There are currently 16 of them for sale on cars.com in the U.S. Based on reviewing the results, it looks to me like, with some searching, a good 2008 - 2010 LC 200 with 100k miles or less should be able to be bought for around $23-26,000. (Additionally, there are about the same number of similar Lexus LX570s for sale, in roughly the same range of prices.)

100 Series:
Turning to late model run LC100s, I searched 2004-2006 100 Series, any mileage, priced between $9,000 and $25,000. There are currently 30 of them for sale, ranging in mileage from a low of around 100k, with asking prices of around $20,000, all the way up to 200k miles. So, if one wanted to stick to an LC 100 with 100k miles or so, then the end purchase price would seem to fall into the high teen range. (On the Lexus side, there are significantly more late model run LX470s for sale with mileage around 100k. Prices are roughly comparable, but it seems like the LX470 buyers didn't rack up miles like the LC100 buyers did.)

Conclusion:
Based on limited research, a 2008-2009 LC200/LX570 with 100k miles on the clock may run somewhere around $25,000, plus or minus a couple thousand. A 2004-2006 LC100/LX470, with the same 100k miles on it, should be a bit under $20,000.

I found this little exercise interesting. The cost difference is less than I thought.

 

[Snowrydr01]

Dont forget age and location in your variables. In the northeast a lot of the 100s will be showing its age via rust, so now your prices are creeping on for southern or western cars and then increasing again for shipping. A local 200 from a major metropolitan area (NY/Philly) might now be more appealing if its undercarriage inst showing its age and you dont have to account for shipping and purchasing from higher priced markets.

 

[Dalko43]

200 Series:
2008-2011 LC 200s, any mileage, priced between $15,000 and $30,000. There are currently 16 of them for sale on cars.com in the U.S. Based on reviewing the results, it looks to me like, with some searching, a good 2008 - 2010 LC 200 with 100k miles or less should be able to be bought for around $23-26,000. (Additionally, there are about the same number of similar Lexus LX570s for sale, in roughly the same range of prices.)

Not sure where you're finding LC 200's for $15k. Checking on auto trader (nationwide) most used LC 200's (100k-150k miles) seem to be asking for $24k-$25k and go up from there as the mileage goes down. Now the actual selling price might be somewhat different, but $15k seems extremely low for all but the most heavily used and abused 200's.

Also from my own perspective as fellow NY'er and hunter, keeping the Ram 1500 or getting used Tacoma or Tundra (for a lot cheaper than getting a comparable year and mileage LC) makes a lot more sense. You're not going to want to throw dead animals and muddy/dirty hunting gear in the back of your nice LC. A pickup bed is so much nicer for hunting and camping since you can just throw everything in the bed and not have to worry about tracking any dirt, mud or blood in it. The LC is a great touring vehicle, but the utility and cargo capacity of a pickup seems a lot more relevant to what you're doing.

If you are going to get a LC, get the LC 100 as it has depreciated quite a bit, whereas the LC 200 still has the potential to depreciate more in the future, especially when a new LC is unveiled.

Also, I'm curious as to why you didn't "bond" with the 4runner but feel that a LC will be more to your liking. I'm not denying the quality difference between the two, but they are both, at their core, 4x4 Body-on-Frame SUV's with a focus on carrying passengers vs something like a Tundra or Tacoma which is focused on carrying cargo. If the 4runner didn't work out for you, what makes you think the LC will?

 

[OffToTheSide]

("Not sure where you're finding LC 200's for $15k.")
- I never said I found an LC 200 for $15k. $15k was the arbitrary low end of the price range I used in the search I ran on cars.com.


("Also, I'm curious as to why you didn't "bond" with the 4Runner but feel that a LC will be more to your liking. I'm not denying the quality difference between the two, but they are both, at their core, 4x4 Body-on-Frame SUV's with a focus on carrying passengers vs something like a Tundra or Tacoma which is focused on carrying cargo. If the 4runner didn't work out for you, what makes you think the LC will?")
- The T4R was and is a great rig, but not for me. In my view, it rode like chuck waqon and the doors shut like a tin box. The interior was Corolla grade: hard and cheap looking plastics, and the center console plastic around the shifter got badly scratched in fewer than 30k miles, with mild, adult only use. The Gen5 T4R design has a high-ish beltline, and the windows are, correspondingly, smaller. Not FJ gunslit small, but the mildly constricted view was not to my taste. The V6 also required lots of revs to get up and go, and I prefer a mill that generates more torque down low.

- The Gen5 T4r also has a slightly low seating position. Not as much of the sitting on the floor feeling as I have gotten from earlier Tacos (I haven't sat in the latest generation Taco), but I wasn't wild about the seating position. Notwithstanding their similar body on frame SUV design, my ownership of the Gen5 T4R did nothing but confirm to me that I should have bought an LC in the first place: more luxury, quieter, V8 power, better ride, more room, top of the heap, and it's the MackDaddy: a LANDCRUISER. By way of comparison, I have also vaguely toyed with the idea of a Range Rover or a Cayenne. The diminished reliability of these two, vis-a-vis the LC, will keep me away.

- As for utility, an SUV platform will do me just fine, and has in the past. I primarily hunt ducks and whitetail deer, and do just fine with SUVs. Usually I am transporting de-boned meat in a marine cooler from the field, but in the past I have had two hide on whitetail deer in the T4R. It was no problem: seats down, cardboard on the floor, deer rolled in small tarps from Tractor Supply.

- Finally, this has little to do with purchasing the perfect automotive tool. In my view, there isn't one: every single vehicle has pros and cons. Rather, this is more about having some fun on a quest to "drive what you love" a bit before dying. I think this is how Range Rover guys go down the hole, right?

Thanks.

 

[Awkragt]

I made this graph back in Febuary as I was debating a move up to a 06/07 100 or a 200 Series. These are just search results pulled off nationwide autotrader. Dollars on the left, miles on the bottom. Assuming you're already targeting that 125K Mile/High $20s I'd get a 200 series simply for the 5.7L being significantly more powerful. Appartently handles the extra weight of mods far better. There isn't a significant price drop between the 100/200 generations which would lead me to get the 200 series. For comparison the Toyota Sequioa showed a $9K premium for the current gen over the old gen.



For me I decided to keep the 98 that I've got. It's going to go from 200K to 300K miles with little to no drop in value. (268K miles currently)

 

[MTSN]

Thanks for the replies, folks. I ran some nationwide searches on cars.com and came up with some data points that may be of use to someone.

200 Series:
2008-2011 LC 200s, any mileage, priced between $15,000 and $30,000. There are currently 16 of them for sale on cars.com in the U.S.

I think you edited your post from what it said earlier, but either way this wording is extremely misleading. I highly doubt you're seeing any 200s for less than about $25k, and I would bet money you're not finding any for $15k unless they have a salvage title even then it's extremely unlikely. You later mentioned 2008-2009 200s with 100k miles for $25k, and again that's not very likely unless they have a bad history and/or have considerable rust. Like I mentioned before, I thought it would be easy to find a nice 200 for under $30k and after looking for a very long time I came up empty. You can find an ad online here and there that looks to be a good deal, but when you dig into it 9 times out of 10 there's a reason the price is good (rust, accidents, poor service history, other damage). I had bought a ticket to fly and drive a 200 that I thought was a great deal until I found in the service history that it had a problem with rats eating the wiring under the hood for years and had extensive electrical issues. I just barely dodged an expensive bullet there, and I've found from literally years of looking at the market most "deals" are not deals.

 

[OffToTheSide]

I think you edited your post from what it said earlier, but either way this wording is extremely misleading. I highly doubt you're seeing any 200s for less than about $25k, and I would bet money you're not finding any for $15k unless they have a salvage title even then it's extremely unlikely. You later mentioned 2008-2009 200s with 100k miles for $25k, and again that's not very likely unless they have a bad history and/or have considerable rust. Like I mentioned before, I thought it would be easy to find a nice 200 for under $30k and after looking for a very long time I came up empty. You can find an ad online here and there that looks to be a good deal, but when you dig into it 9 times out of 10 there's a reason the price is good (rust, accidents, poor service history, other damage). I had bought a ticket to fly and drive a 200 that I thought was a great deal until I found in the service history that it had a problem with rats eating the wiring under the hood for years and had extensive electrical issues. I just barely dodged an expensive bullet there, and I've found from literally years of looking at the market most "deals" are not deals.

MSTN: I don't think I was "extremely misleading". You didn't read my post in context, which was to provide prospective purchasers with some data points. Furthermore, I edited the post to correct a typo the morning after, not anything substantial. In any case, I continue to disagree with you on pricing.

Let's go back to cars.com and ebay for some specific examples obtained from searches I ran this morning.

2008 LX570, 108k, 2 owners, clean CarFax with tons of maint. records: asking $26,900

Bingo. Surely that could be bought for $25,000 on a $26,900 asking price.

Here are some additional examples.
2008 LX570, 110k, clean CarFax: $28,977
2009 LC200, 153k miles, one owner: asking $25,000;
2009 LC200 103k miles, clean CarFax with lots of service records: asking $29,000.

ebay:
2008 LC200, 149k miles, clean title and the auction listing has 96 pictures: asking $25,990, and accepting Best Price offers; auction says all records from new, and that 150k service was just completed at a Toyota dealer;
2009 LC200, 153k: asking $24,995.

 

[OffToTheSide]

Awkragt,

Thank you very much for posting the graphic. It is amazing how well the LC100s have held their value. It looks like you are driving yours in the near zero depreciation zone for awhile: a great place to be.

The LC200s are still on a steepish decline, but, at least in my opinion, will level out pretty soon. LC 200s with higher miles are beginning to get down there nicely in price. If a buyer was comfortable with well over 125k on the clock, here are a couple more candidates (ebay and cars.com):

2008 LC200, 275k miles, one owner, records: $20,000;
2008 LC200, 155k: one owner CarFax: $23,900
2008 LC200, 138k, $24,500

 

[MTSN]

MSTN: I don't think I was "extremely misleading". You didn't read my post in context, which was to provide prospective purchasers with some data points. Furthermore, I edited the post to correct a typo the morning after, not anything substantial. In any case, I continue to disagree with you on pricing.

Let's go back to cars.com and ebay for some specific examples obtained from searches I ran this morning.

2008 LX570, 108k, 2 owners, clean CarFax with tons of maint. records: asking $26,900

Bingo. Surely that could be bought for $25,000 on a $26,900 asking price.

Here are some additional examples.
2008 LX570, 110k, clean CarFax: $28,977
2009 LC200, 153k miles, one owner: asking $25,000;
2009 LC200 103k miles, clean CarFax with lots of service records: asking $29,000.

ebay:
2008 LC200, 149k miles, clean title and the auction listing has 96 pictures: asking $25,990, and accepting Best Price offers; auction says all records from new, and that 150k service was just completed at a Toyota dealer;
2009 LC200, 153k: asking $24,995.

You can be defensive if you'd like, but that's not helping anyone. Some of us have looked at dozens of 200s for sale for years in person and driven them and know first hand that most lower priced ones have been trashed and/or totally rusted out. You should provide links to those low priced ones if you want people's input on whether or not they're legit deals. I can send you links to threads I've posted on Mud where I found "good deal" 200s that ended up smelling like vomit and were beyond disgusting to sit in and one that had rodents living in it. Nearly all I looked at had obvious body work, warning lights on the dash, dead batteries, poorly installed accessories, spotty maintenance, etc.

 

[Awkragt]

I can send you links to threads I've posted on Mud where I found "good deal" 200s that ended up smelling like vomit and were beyond disgusting to sit in and one that had rodents living in it. Nearly all I looked at had obvious body work, warning lights on the dash, dead batteries, poorly installed accessories, spotty maintenance, etc.

Mud is great for checking history on modified ones too. If it's got that "expo" look it's probably got a build thread out there somewhere. A few months ago I found this craigslist ad, a 2009 with 150K miles for about 29K in Oregon, fully modified, bumpers, icon suspension, locked f/r. "Good deal"x1000 right I worked my way over to Mud and find the build thread, this thing's been jumped repeatedly, driven hard, and is currently eating front axle shafts non-stop. That wasn't in the craiglist ad.

I think the difficult part is they just didn't sell very many for a long time. They sold 5x as many year 2000's as year 2009's, the classified ads reflect that. If you want a 200 series you're going to have to be patient and wait for the right one to come along.