What year FJ80 is best?....
- Thread starter SixLug
- Start date
Pskhaat
2005 Expedition Trophy Champion
I'll try to keep this short, but the 91-92 FJ80s are those with the 4.0 litre but did NOT come with axle diff locks. 93-97 FZJ80s had the 4.5l and had the option of axle diff locks.
My personal experience leads me to believe that the 91-92 FJ80s are a better expedition platform/trail rig, the engine shares many components with past generations of cruisers and are easily sourced. They are `easy' to adapt carburetors, non-US and bad-gasoline (manual dial) distributors, manual trannies and part time transfer cases to them, etc, et al. People dislike them because they are tractor engines and like all early Cruisers, not the fastest on the planet, and they can be obtained for a good price. I have a thread in here that lists all the benefits in my book of these.
The 93-97 FZJ80s got a bigger and more computer-complex engine. It's a great engine, really, but doesn't share components with earlier generations. They are known to have heater block hose and head gasket issues. Parts are pricey and may be harder to source at times. However, it is much more highway friendly.
To sum quickly, if my life depended on it or if I would travel to Mexico | Central/South America, I'd take a 91-92 FJ80 hands down.
My personal experience leads me to believe that the 91-92 FJ80s are a better expedition platform/trail rig, the engine shares many components with past generations of cruisers and are easily sourced. They are `easy' to adapt carburetors, non-US and bad-gasoline (manual dial) distributors, manual trannies and part time transfer cases to them, etc, et al. People dislike them because they are tractor engines and like all early Cruisers, not the fastest on the planet, and they can be obtained for a good price. I have a thread in here that lists all the benefits in my book of these.
The 93-97 FZJ80s got a bigger and more computer-complex engine. It's a great engine, really, but doesn't share components with earlier generations. They are known to have heater block hose and head gasket issues. Parts are pricey and may be harder to source at times. However, it is much more highway friendly.
To sum quickly, if my life depended on it or if I would travel to Mexico | Central/South America, I'd take a 91-92 FJ80 hands down.
cruiseroutfit
Supporting Sponsor: Cruiser Outfitters
pskhaat said:
I would have to disagree slightly... While the 3FE (88'-92') is a great engine, it was VERY short lived and has VERY few components that interchange with the earlier 2F (74'-87') engine. In addition, the 91-92' 80's series are a semi-float rear axle, drum brakes, as opposed to the later FF & disc brake axles. The 1FZ (93'-97') motor is extremely reliable, however it may fall victim to bad gas as you mentioned (however the 3FE is even more prone to failure).
The 91-92 FJ80's can be sourced MUCH cheaper than the later FZJ80's, so adding the full-float and lockers could easily be done in a budget. The OEM locker setups are rather rare (~5-10% of the 93-97' had them)...
My 2 cents...
60seriesguy
Adventurer
Another slight correction: in the US, the 3FE was indeed 88-92, but around the world, the 3F debuted in 8/84 and stayed around until 8/92.
I have to say that I don't see much difference in terms of expedition reliability between a 3FE and a 1FZE. Both are electronically controlled, both are fuel injected, both have complex systems that could theoretically strand you in Central/South America. But at the same time, both are typical Land Cruiser engines, overbuilt and designed for primitive conditions and rudimentary maintenance.
With the prices of the 80 series Land Cruiser what they are in the US, I'd look for a later-model FZJ80 (denotes the 1FZE engine, so 93-97) and I would focus on getting the best overall conditions. Factory lockers would be a bonus but not a deal-breaker for me, I'd rather get a super-nice one with no lockers than a so-so one with lockers. ARB's are easily retrofitted, and with the prices of FZJ80's being what they are, you can build a NICE expedition rig for under $20K.
I have to say that I don't see much difference in terms of expedition reliability between a 3FE and a 1FZE. Both are electronically controlled, both are fuel injected, both have complex systems that could theoretically strand you in Central/South America. But at the same time, both are typical Land Cruiser engines, overbuilt and designed for primitive conditions and rudimentary maintenance.
With the prices of the 80 series Land Cruiser what they are in the US, I'd look for a later-model FZJ80 (denotes the 1FZE engine, so 93-97) and I would focus on getting the best overall conditions. Factory lockers would be a bonus but not a deal-breaker for me, I'd rather get a super-nice one with no lockers than a so-so one with lockers. ARB's are easily retrofitted, and with the prices of FZJ80's being what they are, you can build a NICE expedition rig for under $20K.
Pskhaat
2005 Expedition Trophy Champion
cruiseroutfit said:
Engine mounts, some accessory brackets and accessories (possible), rocker cover, distributor, cam?, bellhousings, starters, even a latter model 2F shortblock can be put under the 3F-E. Not everything, no, but some good emergency parts stuff.
In my book, an FJ80 with carb'd 2F, 5spd, part time tcase would be close to perfect expedition rig (okay, maybe a 2H instead of 2F).
cruiseroutfit
Supporting Sponsor: Cruiser Outfitters
pskhaat said:Engine mounts, some accessory brackets and accessories (possible), rocker cover, distributor, cam?, bellhousings, starters, even a latter model 2F shortblock can be put under the 3F-E. Not everything, no, but some good emergency parts stuff.
In my book, an FJ80 with carb'd 2F, 5spd, part time tcase would be close to perfect expedition rig (okay, maybe a 2H instead of 2F).
Motor mounts are different (3F's are offset, F&2F are linear), dizzy different, cam different, rocker cover different.
Are 1FZ parts that rare? I know of several parts motors here in town, and have had one myself that I couldn't get rid of to save my live... Motor mounts are cheap, rocker covers don't go bad... See where I am coming from?
Ever swap out a short-block in an emergency?
If you need 3FE parts they are VERY easy to get these days (so many 4BT/1FZ swaps in the works)... I wouldn't waste the time considering a 2FE for the sake of swapability...Though a 2F bellhousing will bolt up to an 3FE, it is not the same one as a 3FE bellhousing (auto-integrated...).
Don't get me wrong, I love the 3FE (or 2FE stuff too), but it isn't a 1FZ, and unless you actually plan to swap a 5 speed (which can be done with a H151F), then the 1FZ would be a superior motor IMHO. I am putting a 2FE setup into my 40, because I already have a 10K 2F block & a H55F, if I didn't, I would go with a 1FZ, they are extremely reliable (could be argued more than the weaker 3FE).
My 4 cents...
cruiseroutfit
Supporting Sponsor: Cruiser Outfitters
pskhaat said:
I can agree diesel, but the 2H is a dog compared to even a 2F IMHO, gas milage is great, but that much fab and money does NOT warrant a 2H (or even 12HT). Still I think a FF rear with disc brakes is still a major factor for a heavily laden 80 series. 5 speed & part time T-case are a must.
The old owner of Cruiser Outfitters (Darrell Noorda) built an very expedition ready 45 Series much as you described, 2H (converted to 12HT), H55F, split case, FF rear, OEM cable lockers F&R... Great truck, I loved Cruisin' in that thing...
Pskhaat
2005 Expedition Trophy Champion
cruiseroutfit said:
But the 2F and 3F share the mount and bolt pattern. The other things are different, but compatible (I had to source quite a few 2F parts for my 3FJ40 conversion).
Not me personally, but I know several folks who had issues and had to have motor replacements. Some of this is due to bad drivers, no oil, etc, but it does happen. Often? absolutely not.
But if you decide you want to put in a manual transmission, that comes in very handy! H151f's (as you stated) are pretty hard to come by stateside. An H42 H55f on the other hand quite easy.
My 3FJ40 is a 3F-E against the original H42. It's THE motor for a 40, you'll love it if you havn't yet already done it. Other than a 3B/12HT can't imagine any better gasser in a 40.
Pskhaat
2005 Expedition Trophy Champion
A must? depends. Like I said, if I were taking a year off to travel the Americas I'd put 'em in. You can roll start a manual tranny, not the case on an auto. You can also marginally save some gas/wear on part-time tcase.Exrunner said:
Are those things worth the $? It's up to each individual I guess. I personally do not like auto transmissions even in traffic, but that's just me. If a 5spd was available easily for my FZJ80, I'd do that mod. I guess my point is that if a 4|5spd manual tranny (for instance) is important to you to have on an expedition-type rig, a 91-92 FJ80 is a simpler and cheaper swap for that kind of stuff.
Part-time tcases are reasonably available (from an FJ60 for instance) that go with the 4spd|5spd manual tranny. There are kits also available to make the full-time tcase in an 80 act like a part-time tcase.
upcruiser
Perpetual Transient
My 2 cents on the matter.
First off, I own a '92. When I picked it out I was shopping for a primo example. As stated earlier, choose a good one. There are LOTS of 80's out there, so you can afford to be choosy. I liked the idea of the FJ80's personally for many of the reasons described earlier in this thread. They are mechanically simple, they are familiar (former FJ60 owner), and it seemed (based upon all of the owner's accounts that I read) that it had a slight edge reliability-wise. I wasn't hell bent on highway power, if I was, I would have leaned towards a '93 plus at the time. I didn't want a leather interior either and the FJ80's are more easily found in cloth. Its been an awesome truck for me. I picked it up with 115,000 miles on it in 2001 and have 195,000 on it now. I will keep it forever. I used for long wheeling/expedition trips, farming appliance, doing carpentry work, road trips, and as my primary driver up till a last year. I've driven it across the country several times and in the mountains as well. On the freeway, heavily laden with gear on the roof and my lift and tires 65mph is about all you want to make it do. In the mountains in CO I can do any pass without dropping below 45mph. Its pretty slow, but I'm not in a rush when I'm driving it so its not an issue whatsoever.
The '93+ do have some desirable features though. The FF rear axle, 32" tires stock (although on 16" rims which is a minus in my book), rear disc brakes, optional lockers (although pretty rare), and more power while getting better mileage. There are debates over which tranny is better in the 80 line but from what I've read they both are great. The FJ80 and earlier FZJ 80's share a tranny with Toyota's 4 ton commercial trucks which gives me peace of mind to know that it is waaay overbuilt for what I use it for.
In general though, I absolutely love my '92 and Expecially with the differences in price today between the FJ and FZF models, would consider another one. With that said though, if you do commute alot with it, live in a mountainous area, or like to open it up on the highway the fZJ would be more your style.
[/Ramble off]
First off, I own a '92. When I picked it out I was shopping for a primo example. As stated earlier, choose a good one. There are LOTS of 80's out there, so you can afford to be choosy. I liked the idea of the FJ80's personally for many of the reasons described earlier in this thread. They are mechanically simple, they are familiar (former FJ60 owner), and it seemed (based upon all of the owner's accounts that I read) that it had a slight edge reliability-wise. I wasn't hell bent on highway power, if I was, I would have leaned towards a '93 plus at the time. I didn't want a leather interior either and the FJ80's are more easily found in cloth. Its been an awesome truck for me. I picked it up with 115,000 miles on it in 2001 and have 195,000 on it now. I will keep it forever. I used for long wheeling/expedition trips, farming appliance, doing carpentry work, road trips, and as my primary driver up till a last year. I've driven it across the country several times and in the mountains as well. On the freeway, heavily laden with gear on the roof and my lift and tires 65mph is about all you want to make it do. In the mountains in CO I can do any pass without dropping below 45mph. Its pretty slow, but I'm not in a rush when I'm driving it so its not an issue whatsoever.
The '93+ do have some desirable features though. The FF rear axle, 32" tires stock (although on 16" rims which is a minus in my book), rear disc brakes, optional lockers (although pretty rare), and more power while getting better mileage. There are debates over which tranny is better in the 80 line but from what I've read they both are great. The FJ80 and earlier FZJ 80's share a tranny with Toyota's 4 ton commercial trucks which gives me peace of mind to know that it is waaay overbuilt for what I use it for.
In general though, I absolutely love my '92 and Expecially with the differences in price today between the FJ and FZF models, would consider another one. With that said though, if you do commute alot with it, live in a mountainous area, or like to open it up on the highway the fZJ would be more your style.
[/Ramble off]
fj803fe
New member
I agree with you Kurt as well as some od Pskhaat's points.
There are soooo many combinations possible-but we are off topic I believe.
Out of the box US 80 series.
best year??? They are all "good" benefits and drawbacks to each.
93-97
1FZ good engine, as said. A bit more difficult for shadetree mechanic work than the 3fe-but still a solid Toyota Engine. Better highway manners than the 3fe IMO. More prone to Head Gasget failure than other LC engines, Block coolant hose has a nasty tendancy to fail and it is a PITA to change out. Spark plugs are in the oddest of alignment situations-but this is nit-picky.
ABS, driver and pssngr air bags-turing off the pssngr air bag is a bioootch
Rear Full Float Axle-nice, strong, worry free if shaft breakage occurs (i.e. you aren't going to look in your side mirror and see your tire/axle wandering ever more so slightly outboard of the vehicle)
Rear Disk-good braking power though I have never had a feeling that my 35" tired 92 80 with drums was bad (after LSPBV adjustment). ALSO, some poverty package 93s came with semi-float rears and drum brakes, no ABS.
91-92
Well I own one....so I love it.
3fe=slow in front of a slush box, but a VERY easy engine to work on IMO. can have head gasget failure but less often than 1FZ. Has an oil galley journal plug just behind and above the #5(?) spark plug port. This has been known to "blow" out in HOT situations and can lead to a complete loss of oil pressure and oil. However, it is easily fixed and most will do this as a PM.-its one of those "its actually few and far between but you hear about it alot on any 3fe list" type of things.
EFI relay can get very hot and go out-causing much grief and head scratching unles you know the symptoms. But increasing the Wires from 12 ga(?) to 10 ga (?) can eliminate the problem-did this a few years back...
No ABS, no air bags.
Semi Float rear axle-more prone to breakage-but every LC I've owned has had a semi float rear with no breakage. Easy to access the ring/pinion/carrier on a semi float-but that is nitpicky.
There are soooo many combinations possible-but we are off topic I believe.
Out of the box US 80 series.
best year??? They are all "good" benefits and drawbacks to each.
93-97
1FZ good engine, as said. A bit more difficult for shadetree mechanic work than the 3fe-but still a solid Toyota Engine. Better highway manners than the 3fe IMO. More prone to Head Gasget failure than other LC engines, Block coolant hose has a nasty tendancy to fail and it is a PITA to change out. Spark plugs are in the oddest of alignment situations-but this is nit-picky.
ABS, driver and pssngr air bags-turing off the pssngr air bag is a bioootch
Rear Full Float Axle-nice, strong, worry free if shaft breakage occurs (i.e. you aren't going to look in your side mirror and see your tire/axle wandering ever more so slightly outboard of the vehicle)
Rear Disk-good braking power though I have never had a feeling that my 35" tired 92 80 with drums was bad (after LSPBV adjustment). ALSO, some poverty package 93s came with semi-float rears and drum brakes, no ABS.
91-92
Well I own one....so I love it.
3fe=slow in front of a slush box, but a VERY easy engine to work on IMO. can have head gasget failure but less often than 1FZ. Has an oil galley journal plug just behind and above the #5(?) spark plug port. This has been known to "blow" out in HOT situations and can lead to a complete loss of oil pressure and oil. However, it is easily fixed and most will do this as a PM.-its one of those "its actually few and far between but you hear about it alot on any 3fe list" type of things.
EFI relay can get very hot and go out-causing much grief and head scratching unles you know the symptoms. But increasing the Wires from 12 ga(?) to 10 ga (?) can eliminate the problem-did this a few years back...
No ABS, no air bags.
Semi Float rear axle-more prone to breakage-but every LC I've owned has had a semi float rear with no breakage. Easy to access the ring/pinion/carrier on a semi float-but that is nitpicky.