Why are other full size SUV's not used in overlanding/offroading as often as Forerunner/Landcruiser?

[Mericas_Meuth]

Okay,

I know this may come off as a very ignorant question (which is reasonable, considering I am mostly ignorant about the subject) but I have always wondered why Forerunners (& Tacomas)/FJ's/Landcruisers have such huge aftermarket support while domestic full size SUV's like the Tahoe/Explorer receive virtually none despite many factors being extremely similar. At first I thought it was because Toyota did something different with their suspension/drive-train like have a solid front axle or something... but all use IFS. I know landcruisers have much broader global support... but they also cost upwards of 85 grand new.

I know Toyota's have pretty legendary reliability. In my experience with my and others Tahoes GM's build quality is never the best, but the reliability of the vehicles themselves is pretty resolute. I know many many many GMT 800's with 200,000+ miles on original engines & transmissions... albeit with rusted out rockers and quarter panels.

I figured with the vast amount of cheap Tahoes/Suburbans out there that more people would opt for one, but its pretty apparent they arent used near as much. Just wanted to talk about it, I have a lot else to say but I figure I can save that for later.

 

[VanWaLife]

It's like the difference between a fiddle and a violin: you can't spill beer on a violin. There are plenty of full size domestic SUV's out there, but they call that 4-wheeling instead of overlanding.

 

[Mericas_Meuth]

My question is why is one a fiddle and another a violin. I get that's how people see it, just wondering the difference.

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[phsycle]

Because the Toyota crowd needs emotional backing, justification, and enticing of all the pretty dongles bedazzeled on their rigs to go off-road. Full-size truck people have been doing it in their stock trucks for a long time. Only difference is, it's not called "Overlanding", but camping.

I jest, but seriously...
Marketing.

Tacoma/4Runners are marketed as Lifestyle trucks. This is very apparent in the ads, where you have millenials loading up the back with dirt bikes, camping gear, etc.

Tahoe/Expedition are family haulers. Targeted to families for daily errand and road trips. They can go offroad, but that's not what people use them for, typically (except the few yahoos on here! ). Thus, not as much aftermarket support.

You can build whatever you'd like to do whatever you'd like. Just takes money and time.

 

[Grassland]

As far as GM is concerned, tiny wheel wells and torsion bar IFS didn't do the platforms any favours. Don't remember what year full size trucks went to coil SLA front, but the 07-13 trucks also had tiny square wheel wells
Hard to fit larger tires without trimming or cross member drop lifts.
Explorer went independent all around for suspension maybe in 07? Maybe before then, the Sport Trac went from a Ford Ranger (torsion IFS) to full independent somewhere around then
Then Explorer became unibody FWD in 2011.
So basically the platforms were limited, and the people asking for lifts and similar for these platforms was also limited, so the market neglected them.

 

[Mericas_Meuth]

@Grassland @phsycle

Thank you, helpful answers, and both make a lot of sense.

I was listening to the expedition overland podcast today and one of the episodes talks about "pinnacle" overlanding vehicles. #1 was a Toyota landcruiser and they said it was "cheap" here in the USA... I'm wondering what world they are from where an $85,000 SUV is cheap, and from what I can tell, no more capable than a similar full size SUV.... Say even the Sequoia for example. Just really made me wonder...

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[Todd780]

@Grassland @phsycle

Thank you, helpful answers, and both make a lot of sense.

I was listening to the expedition overland podcast today and one of the episodes talks about "pinnacle" overlanding vehicles. #1 was a Toyota landcruiser and they said it was "cheap" here in the USA... I'm wondering what world they are from where an $85,000 SUV is cheap, and from what I can tell, no more capable than a similar full size SUV.... Say even the Sequoia for example. Just really made me wonder...

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I'd take it with a grain of salt. I think they were / are sponsored by Toyota. I seem to recall season two of the show felt like a Toyota advert.

 

[calicamper]

Okay,

I know this may come off as a very ignorant question (which is reasonable, considering I am mostly ignorant about the subject) but I have always wondered why Forerunners (& Tacomas)/FJ's/Landcruisers have such huge aftermarket support while domestic full size SUV's like the Tahoe/Explorer receive virtually none despite many factors being extremely similar. At first I thought it was because Toyota did something different with their suspension/drive-train like have a solid front axle or something... but all use IFS. I know landcruisers have much broader global support... but they also cost upwards of 85 grand new.

I know Toyota's have pretty legendary reliability. In my experience with my and others Tahoes GM's build quality is never the best, but the reliability of the vehicles themselves is pretty resolute. I know many many many GMT 800's with 200,000+ miles on original engines & transmissions... albeit with rusted out rockers and quarter panels.

I figured with the vast amount of cheap Tahoes/Suburbans out there that more people would opt for one, but its pretty apparent they arent used near as much. Just wanted to talk about it, I have a lot else to say but I figure I can save that for later.

Marketing

nuff said

 

[SDDiver5]

Phsycle pretty much nailed it on the head. Here's another side tho....I think a lot has to do with look. An expedition or tahoe or any non Toyota SUV doesn't look all that great when you mod them. They look more like a kid who got the family tahoe or expedition as their first car and they threw on tires and a Yakima roof rack from the garage. While they are just about as capable as a toyota SUV, they completely missed the cool factor.

 

[Todd780]

Phsycle pretty much nailed it on the head. Here's another side tho....I think a lot has to do with look. An expedition or tahoe or any non Toyota SUV doesn't look all that great when you mod them. They look more like a kid who got the family tahoe or expedition as their first car and they threw on tires and a Yakima roof rack from the garage. While they are just about as capable as a toyota SUV, they completely missed the cool factor.

What do you mean?

 

[phsycle]

Phsycle pretty much nailed it on the head. Here's another side tho....I think a lot has to do with look. An expedition or tahoe or any non Toyota SUV doesn't look all that great when you mod them. They look more like a kid who got the family tahoe or expedition as their first car and they threw on tires and a Yakima roof rack from the garage. While they are just about as capable as a toyota SUV, they completely missed the cool factor.

You're right on the looks. I like the new Tacoma's and have always the looks of the 4Runners. Although, LC's.....love the drivetrain and interior, but looks wise.....

Domestic side has some good-looking trucks, too, though. In the midsize, Colorado and Wranglers/Gladiator (along with a Grand Cherokee) definitely "look the part." Full-size, I can't think of a single foreign-made truck I'd take over a Raptor or PowerWagon. I just wish there were a competing counterpart to the LC. Capable, fullsize-ish SUV.

 

[Christian P.]

First of all you would have to define what you consider "overlanding"...are you talking within the US or overseas?

For some of us, it comes from personal experience. I was working in West Africa in the late 90s and we had 'inherited' five(5) Chevy Silverado trucks for our drilling projects in Burkina Faso & Mali. They were only a couple years old, but already falling appart. We had to keep one for spare parts. I got stranded twice with two different trucks after the rear axle broke (between the diff and the hub). One time I had to spend the night in some remote village until I managed to find a guy with a scooter to take me to the first phone so I could call the base to come pick me up...this was before GPS and smart phones...

Then you had these other expats showing up with old beat up Land Cruiser with 500000 km on them and they just kept going and going...it made you jealous..




oh, you should read this...

Democratic Republic of Congo: Lubumbashi to Kinshasa

Congo Zaire Featuring Josephine: Frederik: and our trusty steed: [/quote]

expeditionportal.com

 

[Mericas_Meuth]

Phsycle pretty much nailed it on the head. Here's another side tho....I think a lot has to do with look. An expedition or tahoe or any non Toyota SUV doesn't look all that great when you mod them. They look more like a kid who got the family tahoe or expedition as their first car and they threw on tires and a Yakima roof rack from the garage. While they are just about as capable as a toyota SUV, they completely missed the cool factor.

So you think this looks like a kid who inherited their moms Tahoe? One of the local members rides. I'm not disagreeing with you, because that is your opinion, but I also think most Tahoe's you do see modded ARE kids kids who inherited their moms Tahoe's... (Btw nothing against kids who inherited Tahoe's, power on)

To me seems like it's a capable platform worthy of modding, also given the prices.

I'll have to check out that thread about the land cruisers. I am sure they are extremely reliable, but for 85g's they sure as hell ought to be lol.

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[SDDiver5]

So you think this looks like a kid who inherited their moms Tahoe? One of the local members rides. I'm not disagreeing with you, because that is your opinion, but I also think most Tahoe's you do see modded ARE kids kids who inherited their moms Tahoe's... (Btw nothing against kids who inherited Tahoe's, power on)

To me seems like it's a capable platform worthy of modding, also given the prices.

I'll have to check out that thread about the land cruisers. I am sure they are extremely reliable, but for 85g's they sure as hell ought to be lol.

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That's a dope looking and highly capable Tahoe from what it appears!

What I said was more of a generalization, of course. The average "modded" Tahoe does not look like this at all, far from it in fact. This is a very clean build that likely took time an money. It still doesn't have the cool factor that a T4R or a Taco have.

 

[CrazyDrei]

Domestic trucks such as Tahoe/Suburban/Expedition/Excursion have the sex appeal of gramdma's underwear. They are extremely well built and capable trucks, cheap to insure cheap to fix and reliable. Go to any national park and US trucks will greatly outnumber Toyotas.

As far as "overlanding" goes, people are sheep and sheep follow. Most people that "overland" have well paying day jobs and can afford a truck payment or to drop $20k on a vehicle. They also slave away behind a desk researching what other armchair philosophers consider to be cool or reliable and spend money on toys for trucks rather than getting out and adventuring.

There is nothing wrong with domestic trucks, stock they are extremely capable and are pushed harder on daily basis in the US than Toyotas, unfortunately that group is referred to as rednecks and rednecks are not cool.

There are different approaches you can take but you must first define exactly what it is you want to do and where you want to go.