why I will only purchase OEM brake pads

[ramblinChet]

Here are two fifteen minute videos which do a great job explaining how brakes are manufactured differently, and how testing reveals which factors are most important. For me, it's OEM. Which brake pads would you choose?

What Are The Best Brake Pads? Cheap vs Expensive Tested!



The Sketchy Truth About Aftermarket Brake Pads

 

[plainjaneFJC]

Most all parts OEM is the way to go.

 

[calicamper]

Here are two fifteen minute videos which do a great job explaining how brakes are manufactured differently, and how testing reveals which factors are most important. For me, it's OEM. Which brake pads would you choose?

What Are The Best Brake Pads? Cheap vs Expensive Tested!



The Sketchy Truth About Aftermarket Brake Pads

Learned this one the hard way. Had to help my cousin rebuild his front brake system n his 92 J80. He got tired of replacing the oem pads every 10,000 ish miles lived in the hills and the j80 on 18 inch rims was very hungry for brake pads. He put aftermarket pads on based on suggestions they were better and would run out longer. The compound was definitely different! Caused some serious heat cooked the hell out of his brakes smoked a caliper which I’d never seen. After that I definitely stick to OEM pads. I almost tried the same thing on my 93 J80 when he called and said No!!! Don’t do it and come over and help me wrench on this thing to fix my cooked brakes.

 

[FordGuy1]

I run 6 service departments, with 7 different car lines. We re-due brake jobs with aftermarket pads all day long. There are exceptions, but typically, those brands are much more costly than OEM.

 

[calicamper]

I will say one thing the older Toyota trucks ate pads like a 5yr old eats Halloween candy.
All my other non Toyotas I easily ran in the higher mileage range before the pads needed to be done. Pretty happy with 50,000 on my Expedition rears seems many people see 35-40k max.

Front’s are probably good to 70-75k but yhe breaks are massive compared to my Sequoia and old Land Cruiser.

 

[kmacafee]

I've been using Power Stop rotors and pads on my trucks for years. Never a problem and they last.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

Longevity of pads and rotors is not the most important metric for this decision for me and I dare say it's actually irrelevant to my decision; I recognize the budget is important, of course, but when Bullwinkle steps out of the ditch in front of me I'm not usually thinking "Gee, I hope this sudden stop doesn't cause my brakepads to last only 30,000 kms instead of 35,000 kms". I'm thinking "I want to stop, period, preferably a few seconds ago"

Here's a pretty good overview of brake upgrades and how much of an impact they make in terms of stopping distance - it's significant, especially for a heavy 4WD, and I'll add especially in situations where a lot of braking is necessary (Hills and mountains).

 

[ramblinChet]

Longevity of pads and rotors is not the most important metric for this decision for me and I dare say it's actually irrelevant to my decision; I recognize the budget is important, of course, but when Bullwinkle steps out of the ditch in front of me I'm not usually thinking "Gee, I hope this sudden stop doesn't cause my brakepads to last only 30,000 kms instead of 35,000 kms". I'm thinking "I want to stop, period, preferably a few seconds ago"

Here's a pretty good overview of brake upgrades and how much of an impact they make in terms of stopping distance - it's significant, especially for a heavy 4WD, and I'll add especially in situations where a lot of braking is necessary (Hills and mountains).

Sorry to say but that "test" was a promotional advertisement for Bendix and the results contained within are meaningless. I have spent much time involved in mechanical research and design and I would be laughed out of a meeting if I presented misinformation such as this.

The greatest flaw was involving a variable human to conduct the test and not a perfectly repeatable machine. No mention if the pads and rotors were bedded properly per manufactures recommendation. And then on the Level 1 Upgrade they changed three items simultaneously - was the improvement due to the pads, rotors, brake lines, or a combination of the three? In most testing your change one variable at a time. Another important point, it is unlikely the atmospheric conditions were identical for all testings - this is why we test in a laboratory where the environment is under control.

And they speak of brake temperature and how vital it is to performance but no temperature testing took place and no values were shared. Add that to pedal pressure variation, initial speed variation, and that fact that the video was nothing short of an ad for Bendix. Sorry but I call it as it is and the video you supplied is so significantly flawed I see very little value in it.

I purchased the correct vehicle with the correct OEM braking system for my application - no need to upgrade or change anything. Just out of curiosity, how much does the full Bendix upgrade cost anyway?

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

Fair enough Chet, but I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying. I hear you when you identify that the video is promotional, but I daresay that's not exactly a secret! I didn't share the video because "bendix brakes are best", so I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, and I'm glad that you don't use free 4x4 videos from Australians getting paid to promote a product to present things to coworkers in what sounds like a scientific/engineering context - sounds like they'd be a bit mean about it if they'd laugh at you

I shared it because it illustrated my point that longevity is not the biggest consideration for me when selecting brake components for my vehicle, performance matters most. And performance is impacted by things like heat dissipation - This has been pretty reliably established by quite a few reputable sources (plenty more out there for anyone wanting to Google more). Therefore, when selecting brake systems for my vehicles, keeping heat dissapation and performance at the forefront of the decision (and not longevity) is how I make my decision, which is the question you asked.

Best performance may be accomplished by OEMs, but it may not be the best choice for all use cases - it depends on the type of vehicle, the modifications made, and a whole host of other factors that are specific to the context. For instance, there's lots of overland applications where a person might prefer how easy it is to keep disc brakes free of debris, especially if they are in the mud a lot. If they drive a GM, they're golden, as they've typically had 4 wheel disc systems for a while now. But if they prefer Toyota reliability and are in a Tacoma, then they might want to consider swapping the rear drums for discs to get the best performance out of their truck when they need to jump on the no-go pedal. It's an individual decision that depends on the truck and the driver's use case. The overall point is that for my decision making on parts, performance matters, not longevity, so I don't automatically go OEM - it depends on what performs the best.

 

[tacollie]

I ran Quick stop pads on my Toyotas because they were heavy and the factory brakes needed all the help they can get. I'll replace the ones in my F250 with OEM because it has massive brakes from the factory.

 

[IdaSHO]

Let me guess....

Video(s) take multiple (unknown) MFG pads for a SINGLE (unknown) application and now Chet is applying it as fact across the entire vehicle industry?

Okay......

Personally, I stick to OEM calipers, but rarely OEM rotors or pads.

Why? Because OEM rotors are nothing special, and I prefer to run fully coated rotors living an operating in an area known for rust.
And OEM pads simply don't stop as well as some quality aftermarket options, especially when cold.

 

[plh]

OEMs do not actually make many parts, almost everything in an auto is sourced to a subcontractor. I wouldn't buy the cheapest pads, but companies like Bendix, Power Stop, Akebono etc... all make the OE pads for various OEMs, and I am fine with buying those brands from aftermarket.

 

[phsycle]

I will say one thing the older Toyota trucks ate pads like a 5yr old eats Halloween candy.
All my other non Toyotas I easily ran in the higher mileage range before the pads needed to be done. Pretty happy with 50,000 on my Expedition rears seems many people see 35-40k max.

Front’s are probably good to 70-75k but yhe breaks are massive compared to my Sequoia and old Land Cruiser.

Even new Toyota trucks’ OEM brakes suck. My 3rd Gen Taco’s were horrible. Of course, old 4Runner and Tundra brakes weren’t the best, either. I replaced them all with Hawk pads and new blank rotors (OEM or Brembo), which were excellent.

 

[ramblinChet]

Fair enough Chet, but I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying. I hear you when you identify that the video is promotional, but I daresay that's not exactly a secret! I didn't share the video because "bendix brakes are best", so I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, and I'm glad that you don't use free 4x4 videos from Australians getting paid to promote a product to present things to coworkers in what sounds like a scientific/engineering context - sounds like they'd be a bit mean about it if they'd laugh at you

I shared it because it illustrated my point that longevity is not the biggest consideration for me when selecting brake components for my vehicle, performance matters most. And performance is impacted by things like heat dissipation - This has been pretty reliably established by quite a few reputable sources (plenty more out there for anyone wanting to Google more). Therefore, when selecting brake systems for my vehicles, keeping heat dissapation and performance at the forefront of the decision (and not longevity) is how I make my decision, which is the question you asked.

Best performance may be accomplished by OEMs, but it may not be the best choice for all use cases - it depends on the type of vehicle, the modifications made, and a whole host of other factors that are specific to the context. For instance, there's lots of overland applications where a person might prefer how easy it is to keep disc brakes free of debris, especially if they are in the mud a lot. If they drive a GM, they're golden, as they've typically had 4 wheel disc systems for a while now. But if they prefer Toyota reliability and are in a Tacoma, then they might want to consider swapping the rear drums for discs to get the best performance out of their truck when they need to jump on the no-go pedal. It's an individual decision that depends on the truck and the driver's use case. The overall point is that for my decision making on parts, performance matters, not longevity, so I don't automatically go OEM - it depends on what performs the best.

Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying and if I did, please accept my apology.

My main point was the fact that the video you supplied was so flawed that in my opinion, the information presented was of little value. Again, I have performed so much testing over the years in laboratories with NIST traceable (A2LA/17025) equipment maybe my views are skewed compared to most. I do appreciate the links you included and will take a closer look at them this evening when I have time - I am always open to learning more.

And I agree with your statement, "Best performance may be accomplished by OEMs, but it may not be the best choice for all use cases." My goal was to provide information which depicted the wide variation in brake performance, with all samples being tested under identical conditions, using calibrated equipment, so fellow adventurers were informed. The testing not only displayed the differences when comparing individual pads, but it also accurately displayed how each pad performed under different conditions.

I guess my confusion is centered around how you would define "longevity" with regards to braking applications. My guess is that you are using longevity to define the overall life of the pad? Another definition of longevity that I would consider may be how the pad performs during a single use - say riding the brakes down a long steep hill with a heavy load. We can agree that there are pads that provide an amazing initial bite, but begin to fade quickly. As we both agree, different pads for different applications.

For 99% of drivers, including overlanders, I believe OEM pads are the safest and most reliable choice. The most important features on any vehicle are steering and braking. If your engine does not run, or your AC has failed, etc., you are quite safe. If you have poor steering and/or braking, your life, and the lives of others, is in more danger every time you drive.

And for those who were unable to watch the videos - here is a sample of the information displayed on one of the videos I provided - just an amazing amount of data transformed into useful information that can be easily understood and compared:



And here was the information provided in the video referenced by @ChasingOurTrunks that I am not a fan of:

 

[nickw]

OEMs do not actually make many parts, almost everything in an auto is sourced to a subcontractor. I wouldn't buy the cheapest pads, but companies like Bendix, Power Stop, Akebono etc... all make the OE pads for various OEMs, and I am fine with buying those brands from aftermarket.

I think the OP was alluding to the fact that whomever make the pads, they are made to an OEM spec that work in concert with the OEM engineered systems. If you buy a pad from a the same manuf that makes OEM, it may be similar quality, but may be a different spec, all bets are off on how well it would vs OEM.

I'm an OEM guy myself - we always think we can outsmart or improve on that, in some ways we can....in most we cannot. The OEM engineers have access to data, tests and tribal knowledge most of us don't so it's easy to say "Upgrade" when in reality it's a compromise that we don't fully understand.