Fullsize Diesel Questions

[Storz]

The time has come to get back into a truck, we have a Siberian Husky and our first kid on the way and realized this weekend (trip from NC to MI) that our sedans (VW TDI and a CTS) are both WAY too small!

We plan to get rid of the CTS and keep the TDI for its gas mileage and reliability and want to add another diesel to the stable. A friend of mine has a 7.3psd Excursion and really likes it, and it amazingly gets like 20mpg on the highway. Any others to look at? Thoughts on the Excursion? I've read to stay away from the 6.0.

What about the other brands? GM/Dodge etc? I dont recall them making a diesel SUV anytime recently, so a quad cab pickup might be alright. I've read nothing but good things about the Cummins. Dont know much about the Duramax.

Price range will be 15-20k

Thoughts?

 

[19psi]

you're right, stay away from the 6.0! I think an excursion would be awesome with a 7.3. I could tell you tons of info on all 3 types of trucks. but you might be better off checking out another forum like www.dieselbombers.com for info on all 3. you could read for days as there are tradeoffs and advantages to all 3 types of trucks.

 

[WCO]

From personal experience: The 7.3 powerstroke was the last "GOOD" diesel motor to sit in a ford, I wouldn't touch any of the motors that have come out since. Cummins are EXCELLENT motors, surrounded by a cheap body. Dodge drivelines are great, but the fit and finish of the interior and body aren't to great. The duramax has been a good motor, but with injector problems. My current truck is an 03 with the LB& (First gen duramax). I've had to do the injectors, and have lots of problems with glow plugs, but it is a great running motor, and the allison tranny combo is excellent. The GM bodies/interiors are excellent, with comfort and fit/finish you wouldn't expect in a truck.

It mainly depends on your use, will it be a lot of hwy miles with minimal off road, 50/50, or do you want a very capable off road truck. If the first two, I'd recommend GM based on comfort and ride quality, but if you spend a lot of time in the dirt, I'd lean towards dodge.....like the post before me said, hit up some of the diesel specific forums.....in the end it really comes down to personal choice. Keep us posted!

 

[bfdiesel]

I think he means LB7. I got rid of mine because it was going through its 3rd set of injectors. I like the cummins because it is easier to work on.

 

[rxm6]

Personally, I like the Chevy and Ford interiors more then the Dodge interior. However, I also like the Dodge and Ford (6.0 exempt) diesels better then the Duramax.

The Duramax is a good engine, but the earlier models had problems with things like leaky injectors because of using the wrong micron fuel filters. However, most of that was corrected by GM on the 05's and after. I don't know about 01-04.

 

[WCO]

I think he means LB7. I got rid of mine because it was going through its 3rd set of injectors. I like the cummins because it is easier to work on.

Opps, thanks bfdiesel, yes, I meant LB7. Bosch has updated their injector design for these motors, and there are minimal injector problems once replaced with the new design. It was GM's engineers telling Izuzu that they know more about their motor than the original designers.....once they went with the injectors Izuzu recommended (05+) there have been minimal problems.

If I were looking to build a vehical for international travel, I would go with the cummins, especially the 12valve 5.9 liter. Its a completely mechanical motor, that you can run the dirtiest fuel through, and it'll take all the punishment you can throw at it. It's basically a tractor motor and a workhorse

 

[tombodad]

I was basically in your same shoes recently. You will find that most searches lead to opinions based on brand loyalty, not on the actual truck itself. Here is what I found through research, speculation, and summation :

Dodge/Cummins:
Best engine overall. Simple, Powerful, efficient, exceedingly overbuilt
Auto trannies are the weakest, but do okay with lighter towing and no performance tuning. Manuals are great though. Truck itself is by far the lowest quality. Uncomfortable (imo), cheap, little things break a lot. Stock suspension is pretty horrible. generally priced in the middle. Available in mega cab, which may be an attraction for your needs. (2006/early 07 mega cab still has the 5.9)
Grew up running these on the farm/ranch. Never any serious problems.


Ford/Powerstroke
Good engine, good truck, good trans. Not the best in any area, but good in all.
Seems to be the least reliable, although they are all fairly reliable.
Stick with 7.3, 6.0 introduces many problems (all fixable), with no real benefits.
Probably the cheapest parts. Generally the cheapest.
Lots of experience with these in wildland fire rigs. Never any serious problems.

GM/Duramax
Great engine, although much more complex than the other two. Most powerful/responsive to upgrades, most efficient. Best Auto transmission offered in any truck. By far the most comfortable, and highest build quality of the truck. Much better ride. Most expensive parts. Weaker front end.
Stick with at least the laate 04+ (LLY), as injectors problems are worked out by then. Best years are 06-07.5, the LBZ. Best engine, 6 speed shiftable allison, right before extra emissions. Generally the most expensive.
Haven't had mine long, but there are not many LBZ's with any sort of serious problem, and several on forums with 300-400k + miles of long-haul towing with no problems whatsoever.

Overall thoughts:
For me, the duramax is a bit of a different breed. If I was going for a construction site or ranch workhorse, I would undoubtedly have gone with either Dodge or Ford, due to their simplicity, and solid front axle. However, I was looking for a long-haul towing machine, daily driver, and adventure/hunting/camping/SAR mission rig. I also preferred an automatic transmission. Duramax fit this perfectly, and with a few inexpensive modification to the relatively weak front end, I have confidence.
With any of them, stay away from anything after 2007 ish. Our lovely .gov added so much emissions junk, the engines are forced to breathe dirty, and efficiency is down greatly. (however, if your heart is set on a newer one, there are ways around all of these for the $$)

If you get lucky, as I did, find the newest possible with the older non-emissions engines. Some dealers, expecially those not familiar with diesels, will discount these, as they feel people want the newer style. Little do they know.... mua ha ha ha :coffeedrink:

Keep in mind with any of the diesels, they were not designed for the Ultra Low Sulfur fuel we are graciously provided these days. They need lubricity, and this can be found with fuel additives, or biodiesel.

If I can be of any more help, let me know!

 

[BillTex]

Not sure if this helps, but I'll give a little perspective on large SUV vs 4 dr pickup; we have owned 2 Suburbans. They are awesome Family vehicles, particularly if you need to seat a lot of Folks (up to 9!), they are very comfy for long distance, tow pretty well (the newest gen is down on tow ratings...). Fuel mileage was what you would expect for a vehicle this size maybe 17-18 hwy, 15 around town. Towing really sucked up some fuel 9-11.
Now we have a crew cab (GM for 4 full size door) pickup, Duramax/Alli. The front 2 seat are IDENTICAL to what we had in the Suburbans...very comfy...you can get all the same goodies (if that matters) video, sunroof, yada...
Fuel mileage much improved; 22 hwy, 15 around town, 15 towing (7000#-8000#). In many ways they are similar, with the fuel and towing advantage going to the Duramax.
What really sets them apart...and this is big for me...is you can throw all kinds of ******** in the back of the truck and not worry about it; firewood, gravel, gas cans, kayaks,skis,dirt bikes, road kill...not that you can't fit "stuff" in an SUV...you just have to be more careful about (unless you really want to muck it up inside). I like just tossing stuff in the back...and it seems like there is always something to throw back there...
Summary; they are both great adventure vehicles...with a truck providing greater flexibility.
(Note; Exc would be same as Suburban. If you could find a 7.3...that would be kewl)

Bill

 

[Buliwyf]

I

GM/Duramax
Great engine, although much more complex than the other two. Most powerful/responsive to upgrades, most efficient. Best Auto transmission offered in any truck. By far the most comfortable, and highest build quality of the truck. Much better ride. Most expensive parts. Weaker front end.
Stick with at least the laate 04+ (LLY), as injectors problems are worked out by then. Best years are 06-07.5, the LBZ. Best engine, 6 speed shiftable allison, right before extra emissions. Generally the most expensive.
Haven't had mine long, but there are not many LBZ's with any sort of serious problem, and several on forums with 300-400k + miles of long-haul towing with no problems whatsoever.

!

That's funny. My experience with the Chevy's is the mirror opposite of yours. Our GM trucks have consistantly had the worst quality and cheapest builds. Fords being the best, and the Dodges are just cheaper versions of Fords, only with a more reliable diesel engine.

Seat foam that failsquickly if it gets wet. Dismal transmissions. Multiple cracked flexplates. Stiff front suspension with no travel/flex. Tierod failures due to IFS. Door module that won't stop pinging. Weak door hinges. Window cranks fall off. Gauge lighting won't dim properly. Door panels fall apart. Arm rests crack. Sideview Mirrors are just held on with double sided tape and tend to fall out. 3rd step in the AC fan control fails repeatedly. Our fleet of GM's have all had these same problems for the last 10 years fairly consistantly. We trade in the GM's at 150k miles. They're usually toast at that point. I miss having nice GM trucks.

I wouldn't overlook newer 2005-2008 Ford Superduties that were gas powered. Really good trucks, too bad International forgot how to make diesel engines. Avoid the 6.0, and the 6.4 is not much better.

I can recommend the 2001 superduties with the 7.3L as long as you budget for a $2000 transmission rebuild as those year trucks are getting quite old. Then rebuild the rear diff without friction modifier or replace with a locker. Replace old flat front springs with the BDS 2"teflon spring. Sits nice and high like the plow springs, but softer ride. Keep a cam sensor in the glove box.

The Dodge diesels may still be a good choice. Some people have had good luck with them. But they just seem a bit too Chryslerish to me. (cheap) Avoid auto transmissions in these if you can. Dodge manuals are quite nice. I'm not big on Dodges gas engines at all. Seem a bit weaker than the spec sheet says.

Look into the 2005-2008 gas Ford Superduties. Better axles, ride quality, and the 5r110 transmission is quite nice. I'm hopeing to pick up another 2008 for $15k this week.

 

[Storz]

I am actually thinking of waiting a little while longer, saving up some $$ (instead of financing) and buying a mid to late 90's diesel of some sort over the summer. Not having a car payment would be really nice, and I don't mind an older truck.

 

[Buliwyf]

That's what i'm doing. There are plenty of used trucks out there in like new condition. Usually just seat covers, tires, and the usual small parts that need replaced. I'm amazed how many allmost scratch free dentless trucks there are out there for under $15k. I'm just planning on paying cash as well. I can get by with just my car and some winter tires, so making payments on something new is pretty foolish for me.

Old cheaper trucks/jeeps are nice because you don't have to baby them and spend weeks of your time polishing them like they were a Mustang or something. I can't reall careing about any little scratch or ding I put in my '94 YJ.

If I bought a brand new base model F250 it would run me $36k and look about the same as the used trucks I'm after in about two years of use. $19k is alot of depreciation in just a few years.

The 2008 I'm hopeing to snag looks like it only needs seat covers, cosmeticly everything else look nearly showroom.

 

[redthies]

While I do like the 7.3 Excursion, I find the thought of buying injectors at many hundreds per, versus $600 for a full set of 100hp injectors for the 12v 5.9 Cummins makes me gag. Maybe buy a cheaper V10 Excursion and check out FordCummins.com. They have 5.9 conversion kits that are really inexpensive. To me, that would be the ultimate suv...

 

[Booner]

My 2006 Dodge 2500 w/ Cummins engine has been problem free for 82K miles, with no indication that it will be problematic any time in the immediate future. It is a 1-owner vehicle that I purchased used, mainly because there was no way I could afford a new diesel. I bought a later model CR Cummins because there are very few nice older trucks here in the rust-belt, and anyone that owns a 12-valve is reluctant to give it up. My Dodge has zero mods at this point, it's just a well-maintained stock truck. It has plenty of power for my uses, any mods I make (as needed) will be to increase safety/reliability. So far, the body and interior/electronics look great, it runs like a top. The axles are hell-for-stout, and the trans (48RE auto) handles any load I put on it without complaint.

When I looked at diesel pick-ups, I considered all of them. I was well aware of problems (or perceived problems) with various models. Loved the GM DuraMax, couldn't find a nice one that I could afford. I drove a 2000 Ford PSD at work, but 11 year old 7.3s are very tough to find here in the land of road salt. Wouldn't have a 6.0 or a 6.4. My brother drives a new 6.7, it runs great with urea injection, but the jury is still out (and I'm not buying new). So that left the Dodge with the Cummins powerplant. At this point, I'm very happy with my 2500 diesel.

 

[NothingClever]

Thanks to everybody for sharing their insight and experiences. My wife and I are considering moving up from our Tacoma to a full-size for a dedicated FWC camper truck. I'm a victim of my experiences growing up around ________ - brand trucks in ranch country in the 70s and 80s, but this thread is helping broaden my horizons to make a better informed decision.

 

[DennisNYS]

I don't think a full set of injectors for a 5.9 Cummins can be found new (or rebuilt) for 600.00.

Now a full set of just the 100hp nozzles, not complete bodies, would go for 600.00 on sale .... maybe.

Just saying, because I would purchase a complete set of injectors for my 05 Cummins as a spare set , at that price.