Adapters and info for Chevy 4.3L Vortec and 350 V8 along with Ford 302 swaps.
http://www.northwestoffroad.com/parts/engineadapters.php
http://www.northwestoffroad.com/parts/engineadapters.php
Engine Swap ideas and real world performance: Will it/won't it.
- Thread starter 4Rescue
- Start date
mcneil
Observer
Have you considered the VW 1.9 TDIs?
The base motor, with a euro tune, is 110hp/180ft-lbs and weighs the same as a jeep 2.5L. Acme Adapters makes a plate that bolts to the R151f, and the TDI/Toyota route is pretty well proven. Copy one of the guys on TDiClub forums:
Good 1st gen example
Bolt-in Tacoma V6 to ALH swap
Cleanest Tacoma swap, reports 32mpg
The ALH motor has more power, but requires a bit of wiring, or the AHU can be used with a mechanical inj. pump for simplicity. Most of the people who've completed it are reporting high reliability and mileage in the high 20s, 30+mpg being attainable with technique.
Edit: I forgot to mention, with about $1-2k of turbo work and a good ECU tune, the TDI will do 200hp/300ft-lbs of torque with daily driver reliability.
The base motor, with a euro tune, is 110hp/180ft-lbs and weighs the same as a jeep 2.5L. Acme Adapters makes a plate that bolts to the R151f, and the TDI/Toyota route is pretty well proven. Copy one of the guys on TDiClub forums:
Good 1st gen example
Bolt-in Tacoma V6 to ALH swap
Cleanest Tacoma swap, reports 32mpg
The ALH motor has more power, but requires a bit of wiring, or the AHU can be used with a mechanical inj. pump for simplicity. Most of the people who've completed it are reporting high reliability and mileage in the high 20s, 30+mpg being attainable with technique.
Edit: I forgot to mention, with about $1-2k of turbo work and a good ECU tune, the TDI will do 200hp/300ft-lbs of torque with daily driver reliability.
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montypower
Adventure Time!
Here's your solution:
Toy Only Swaps - In Oregon.
They specialize in 3RZ (2.7L) and 5VZ (3.4L V6) into older toyota trucks. Supercharge or not. They will do the full swap for you. Extremely reasonable prices! Actually, incredible prices. I wish I knew about them when I had my 86 4runner. I would have had them install the 3.4L w/ supercharger and would probably still have the truck. 22RE sucks on the road especially loaded with weight.
http://www.toyonlyswaps.com/
Toy Only Swaps - In Oregon.
They specialize in 3RZ (2.7L) and 5VZ (3.4L V6) into older toyota trucks. Supercharge or not. They will do the full swap for you. Extremely reasonable prices! Actually, incredible prices. I wish I knew about them when I had my 86 4runner. I would have had them install the 3.4L w/ supercharger and would probably still have the truck. 22RE sucks on the road especially loaded with weight.
http://www.toyonlyswaps.com/
4Rescue
Expedition Leader
Well its looking like I'm gonna oull yhe trigger on the diesel in seattle and put it on the 2nd gen... Looks like LC NW is possibly willing to work with me... gonna go down there next week and talk to Matt (small world as my fiance grew up with him and I've known several of ther guys growing up from different groups of friends) IF that doesn't work out I'm going to do a 3.4L.
For reference: Not putting Shivvy or Ford anything in my trucks and Nissans are a no go in my book too (not a VQ motor fan)... its Toyota or nothing and I'm not buying a 4runner past a 3rd gen if it came to that (it won't and the lack of a manual in most cases makes it a no go anyway).
Thanks for that Toyota Only Swaps link, I'm gonna be doing a LOT of number crunching here this week and some working out of logistics, but its looking like I'm gonna be clattering around the NW (and anywhere I wanna go really) here in the future.
Thank you all for the advice, I would be sad to not go Diesel, buy a 3.4 in a 1st gen wouldn't make me THAT sad :lol:
Please excuse my horrid spelling I'm on my phone...
For reference: Not putting Shivvy or Ford anything in my trucks and Nissans are a no go in my book too (not a VQ motor fan)... its Toyota or nothing and I'm not buying a 4runner past a 3rd gen if it came to that (it won't and the lack of a manual in most cases makes it a no go anyway).
Thanks for that Toyota Only Swaps link, I'm gonna be doing a LOT of number crunching here this week and some working out of logistics, but its looking like I'm gonna be clattering around the NW (and anywhere I wanna go really) here in the future.
Thank you all for the advice, I would be sad to not go Diesel, buy a 3.4 in a 1st gen wouldn't make me THAT sad :lol:
Please excuse my horrid spelling I'm on my phone...
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In my honest opinion if you aren't going to put the diesel in do the 3.4 swap. I might be the only person here so far to have swapped one in a 1st gen but its easy enough. I did the swap with a hoist and a 94 piece craftsman set. The swap is easier to do if you had a v6 in it originally, but you can get adapter mounts from these guys http://www.chilkatdesigns.com/5VZ-Conversion-Mounts.html but you will have to get a R series transmission. The 3.4 will have more then enough power to tow a work trailer, I used to tow mine all the time. If you feel like your lacking then go the supercharger route and have a lot of fun. I never for one minute regret doing my engine swap or the supercharger.
Stone_Blue
Adventurer
Ford engine was A-OK for Ivan....believe this had a 302 in it.Ford Suspension too....
View attachment 170531
Ughh!!!...The HERESY!!!!!... :Wow1:
Stone_Blue
Adventurer
I once looked at swapping a 7MGT-E into my 1980 PU...(Even bought a motor/tranny), but then came along the 3RZ motors, and I thought about going that route instead...Then I had to get rid of it....But I also looked into keeping the R151 I had in it, to swap into my 3RZ'd 99 Taco.
If you havent already, (but it sounds like you might already know), do research on the R151 bellhousing and input shaft. The R151 is a different beast than all the other R-Series trannies. Its not just a bolt-up swap in place of any other R-series transmission, or to put one behind any motor with just a normal R-series bell housing. The input shaft is different enough, that it makes a swap a little harder. So make sure you plan for the possible added cost of having a custom bell housing made, or cobbling something together.
And, yeah, I would go with the 5VZ, also if not diesel.
Also, the 5VZ was used in '00-04 Tundras...Wonder why that isnt mentioned on Toyswaps site?....might be able to get a Tundra motor for cheaper than a Tacoma's...??...Everything else (used) for the Tundras seems to be quite often cheaper than for the Tacoma's...
If you havent already, (but it sounds like you might already know), do research on the R151 bellhousing and input shaft. The R151 is a different beast than all the other R-Series trannies. Its not just a bolt-up swap in place of any other R-series transmission, or to put one behind any motor with just a normal R-series bell housing. The input shaft is different enough, that it makes a swap a little harder. So make sure you plan for the possible added cost of having a custom bell housing made, or cobbling something together.
And, yeah, I would go with the 5VZ, also if not diesel.
Also, the 5VZ was used in '00-04 Tundras...Wonder why that isnt mentioned on Toyswaps site?....might be able to get a Tundra motor for cheaper than a Tacoma's...??...Everything else (used) for the Tundras seems to be quite often cheaper than for the Tacoma's...
Clutch
<---Pass
Trails Less Traveled did a 5VZ swap....pretty killer setup all around.
http://www.ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178420
http://www.ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178420
4Rescue
Expedition Leader
"Have you considered the VW Diesels"...
I have, they're (the 1.9 IDI and 1.6L IDI) simply not enough to tow with and they're REALLY taxed in anything but a Samurai or something of comparable weight unless you crank them up (it's a little more then just Turbo work and an ECU tune, Fuel delivery becomes an issue and then you ahve to watch EGT/Head temps) or you have some sort of tranny splitter like a big rig (200 HP and 300ft/lb is a BIG claim from these little motors esp the older 1.9's so I'm a bit skeptical to say the least and I have spent a LOT of time around VW Diesels... GREAT motors, but getting that kind of power out of a 1.(L motor -vs- a 3.0L motor is a pretty big claim and HAS to have some serious electronics behind it. I seriously doubt you could do that with a mechanical pump and with any real longevity) ... I'm a bit of a VW Diesel nut too, now the new 2.0 TDi (my mom has a '12 TDi Sport-Wagon aka THE best road trip car end of story) would be a better, but there's WAY too much electronics to deal with (interestingly, the reason VW's gass 1.8's are so dam reliable is they were designed s a Diesel block so they're actually "under-taxed" being run as a gasser). In fact we love the TDi so much that my Dad's likely going to buy a TDi Tiguan when they come out to make a good "run-around" that can go well in the snow. Don;t even get me started on how VW doesn't offer the Diesel Amorak here but offers it in ENGLAND where they have SO much less use for rigs like these... My dad saw the Amorak and it's TDi + 8-speed and blew a gasket when he found out that they're a no-go for the US... Now if I were building a Toy Buggie, I might try a VW but as is, they're not up to the task at hand... I'v actually GOT a 1.9 IDI TD sitting in our Barn that came out of my dad's immaculate '81 Caddy (I built water-cooled VW's for years).
Cheers
Dave
My biggest question NOW, is seeing as t's a 1KZ-T (-vs- a TE) can I just run an R-Series tranny behind it or is there still some wiring harness difference between the Auto and Manual trannied trucks that came stock with these in them. I'm already going to have to sort out converting/laying out an LHD configuration from the RHD wiring harness I'll be getting, but I'm going manual no if's ands or buts... I'm pretty much onna spend the reast of this week on the Aussie and Toy Diesel Forums figuring this stuff out so I now what I need to talk about with Landcruisers NW here end of the wek or next week. Then I gotta figure out how to get a truck that has no motor and has ANOTHER MOTOR (the Diesel) sitting in the engine bay, not mounted up... Can't Tow-Dolly it so it looks like were gonna have to get out the car-hauler (it's where we park the Kubotas beside the barn) and borrow my Uncles Cummins/Dodge to haul it all down. In an ideal world I'd just drop it all off at LCNW and wait for a phone call, but we shall see... As is the plan is to buy the Truck/Engine and put it all in the 2nd Gen which will be getting a rear-leaf swap (backwards I know but I'm gonna run longer OME leaves for an LC and honestly my 4Runner with the stock length OME springs rides GREAT as it is).
This is worse then being 5 and waiting for X-mas to get here...
I have, they're (the 1.9 IDI and 1.6L IDI) simply not enough to tow with and they're REALLY taxed in anything but a Samurai or something of comparable weight unless you crank them up (it's a little more then just Turbo work and an ECU tune, Fuel delivery becomes an issue and then you ahve to watch EGT/Head temps) or you have some sort of tranny splitter like a big rig (200 HP and 300ft/lb is a BIG claim from these little motors esp the older 1.9's so I'm a bit skeptical to say the least and I have spent a LOT of time around VW Diesels... GREAT motors, but getting that kind of power out of a 1.(L motor -vs- a 3.0L motor is a pretty big claim and HAS to have some serious electronics behind it. I seriously doubt you could do that with a mechanical pump and with any real longevity) ... I'm a bit of a VW Diesel nut too, now the new 2.0 TDi (my mom has a '12 TDi Sport-Wagon aka THE best road trip car end of story) would be a better, but there's WAY too much electronics to deal with (interestingly, the reason VW's gass 1.8's are so dam reliable is they were designed s a Diesel block so they're actually "under-taxed" being run as a gasser). In fact we love the TDi so much that my Dad's likely going to buy a TDi Tiguan when they come out to make a good "run-around" that can go well in the snow. Don;t even get me started on how VW doesn't offer the Diesel Amorak here but offers it in ENGLAND where they have SO much less use for rigs like these... My dad saw the Amorak and it's TDi + 8-speed and blew a gasket when he found out that they're a no-go for the US... Now if I were building a Toy Buggie, I might try a VW but as is, they're not up to the task at hand... I'v actually GOT a 1.9 IDI TD sitting in our Barn that came out of my dad's immaculate '81 Caddy (I built water-cooled VW's for years).
Cheers
Dave
My biggest question NOW, is seeing as t's a 1KZ-T (-vs- a TE) can I just run an R-Series tranny behind it or is there still some wiring harness difference between the Auto and Manual trannied trucks that came stock with these in them. I'm already going to have to sort out converting/laying out an LHD configuration from the RHD wiring harness I'll be getting, but I'm going manual no if's ands or buts... I'm pretty much onna spend the reast of this week on the Aussie and Toy Diesel Forums figuring this stuff out so I now what I need to talk about with Landcruisers NW here end of the wek or next week. Then I gotta figure out how to get a truck that has no motor and has ANOTHER MOTOR (the Diesel) sitting in the engine bay, not mounted up... Can't Tow-Dolly it so it looks like were gonna have to get out the car-hauler (it's where we park the Kubotas beside the barn) and borrow my Uncles Cummins/Dodge to haul it all down. In an ideal world I'd just drop it all off at LCNW and wait for a phone call, but we shall see... As is the plan is to buy the Truck/Engine and put it all in the 2nd Gen which will be getting a rear-leaf swap (backwards I know but I'm gonna run longer OME leaves for an LC and honestly my 4Runner with the stock length OME springs rides GREAT as it is).
This is worse then being 5 and waiting for X-mas to get here...
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4Rescue
Expedition Leader
Nice, that's good to know it'll have enough power IF I end up having to go that route... I've actually seen quite a few 34 -> 1st Gen swaps and people seem to LOVE them cause it really makes the "little old Toyota" a real sleeper... Kinda like when they threw that motor in the Rav-4's for a year... WOW were those things too fast for the chassis they were in....
And yeah, I love my Toyota too much to ever defile them with a Ferd or Shivvy lump in them... Toyota Gas motor only IF I end up being forced that way.
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Clutch
<---Pass
Toyota did borrow some ideas from Chevy in the early years...ya could say they are cousins.
mcneil
Observer
You're probably right about overtaxing a 1.9 towing with that weight.. but hey, I figured I'd throw it out there anyway.
So true. Before we bought our 2010 Golf TDI, my wife made me promise that I would not pull the motor without her permission.
So true. Before we bought our 2010 Golf TDI, my wife made me promise that I would not pull the motor without her permission.
Stone_Blue
Adventurer
Have you checked out the forums on http://board.marlincrawler.com/, or www.IH8MUD.com?
Both have lots of threads on 1KZ swaps.... While most on IH8MUD's forum are are swapped into Land Cruisers, Most done on Marlin are in 2nd & 3rd Gen PUs & 4Runners.
Both have lots of threads on 1KZ swaps.... While most on IH8MUD's forum are are swapped into Land Cruisers, Most done on Marlin are in 2nd & 3rd Gen PUs & 4Runners.
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4Rescue
Expedition Leader
Yeah I'm over on Marlins boards too although I'll admit I don;t spend as much time there as here on EP as I feel this is a "better" resource for a lot of my needs. I'm following some 1KZ-T swaps various places, but being that this isn't going to be a Crawler, EP is often a better resource for my needs. I AM a huge fan/supporter of Marlin and his shop though, and I was lucky enough to meet him and see the shop years ago (was going to Wilderness EMT "school" through WMI down near Fresno). I will be looking to Marlin both for Armor and I'm emailing with him about sourcing a Bell-housing/flywheel and building an R-Series for a Manual conversion on this truck.
Of note: I'm apparently BLIND, I had THOUGHT that this was a 1KZ-T but it is in fact a 1KZ-TE SO... Gotta work out the particulars there too. I see you can get a W-56 behind it (which my 1st Gen has) but I don;t know that it'd survive towing and living behind the diesel under much of a load. This also raised the issue that this is NOT a Half-Cut sourced motor, he does HAVE the wiring harness and all the needed parts, but he didn't get the Tranny/T-Case that matches it so for better or worse that's where I'll be with this swap. I'm thinking it might be better because the goal here is to end up with a Manual, and you can run a manual with an Automatic wiring loom (but I don't believe you can run an auto with a manual loom so that's a benefit I guess to having the Auto-loom). The Dash cluster is another issue that I'm trying to work out but haven't gotten a straight answer on yet...
Of note: I'm apparently BLIND, I had THOUGHT that this was a 1KZ-T but it is in fact a 1KZ-TE SO... Gotta work out the particulars there too. I see you can get a W-56 behind it (which my 1st Gen has) but I don;t know that it'd survive towing and living behind the diesel under much of a load. This also raised the issue that this is NOT a Half-Cut sourced motor, he does HAVE the wiring harness and all the needed parts, but he didn't get the Tranny/T-Case that matches it so for better or worse that's where I'll be with this swap. I'm thinking it might be better because the goal here is to end up with a Manual, and you can run a manual with an Automatic wiring loom (but I don't believe you can run an auto with a manual loom so that's a benefit I guess to having the Auto-loom). The Dash cluster is another issue that I'm trying to work out but haven't gotten a straight answer on yet...