The 2016 Toyota Tacoma Revealed

[Dougnuts]

I see a strong argument for people to just purchase a 2-3yr old Taco with known running gear/engine etc

Unfortunately, used Tacoma prices are a strong argument for buying new.

and more or less the same cabin and suspension as the new Taco with the unproven engine which returns possibly less mileage as the prior gen!

Nah, it will get better mileage than the old one.

What the really needed what some additional seat adjustability, something they apparently left off. And what is this I hear about the rear of the frame having more flex than the last one? That seems....backwards. I've spent some time significant highway time in a 2011 Highlander and a 2013 Tacoma and while I'm excited about the new engine, the seats in the Tacoma hopefully aren't as bad as they used to be on trips over 60 minutes.

 

[calicamper]

Unfortunately, used Tacoma prices are a strong argument for buying new.



Nah, it will get better mileage than the old one.

What the really needed what some additional seat adjustability, something they apparently left off. And what is this I hear about the rear of the frame having more flex than the last one? That seems....backwards. I've spent some time significant highway time in a 2011 Highlander and a 2013 Tacoma and while I'm excited about the new engine, the seats in the Tacoma hopefully aren't as bad as they used to be on trips over 60 minutes.

The seat thing is just stupid

Those older folks mid career with income to afford a new rig are also hitting the point where lumbar adjustment on both the driver side and the passenger side can actually be the difference between being on the list and being off the list! My wife informed me last week if we get another truck based vehicle the passenger seat will have adjustable Lumbar. Given today the trend is 50+K for a stupid over the top truck you wouldn't want to get dirty only comes with lumbar support I'll probably just end up with a Mercedes SUV and skip the truck stuff. Their loss given I'd much rather have a midsized pickup. The GM Canyon does offer it but I just cant get past the 1980's pontiac interior seat covers and huge ugly shifter in the crowded center console. Never did like GM products and I doubt I'll ever own one. At this point in time I'd say I have a better chance of ending up in a F150 with cooled seats sporting the 2.7L than ending up with a midsized.

 

[dman93]

Unfortunately, used Tacoma prices are a strong argument for buying new.

This. Especially (at least where I live) the typical, used Gen 2 Taco has 100k miles, a few tasteless mods, no maintenance records and is being sold (asking) at 80% of new price).

 

[SDDiver5]

This. Especially (at least where I live) the typical, used Gen 2 Taco has 100k miles, a few tasteless mods, no maintenance records and is being sold (asking) at 80% of new price).

Tacos and T4R's. It's just ridiculous!

 

[Wasatch]

This. Especially (at least where I live) the typical, used Gen 2 Taco has 100k miles, a few tasteless mods, no maintenance records and is being sold (asking) at 80% of new price).

Hey! Don't hate on us guys who do their own maintenance. I do it better than the tech's at my dealer :ylsmoke:

 

[barlowrs]

A few comments having talked to the chief engineer when I was at the event (These are personal opinions, just to remind you haah):

1. Non box frame: The Toyota engineering team considers this a good thing, not a bad thing (as do I having wheeled my 06 a LOT). The frame is strengthened where it needs to be in order to support loads, however, the flex essentially acts as an extra ~1" of travel. For example, if you look at the picture in my "Other Interesting Features" section of the write-up on EE, you can see how the bed flex helps, in that position, if the bed was boxed all the way back and super stiff, you would be three wheeling. The bed flex allows the wheels to stay on the ground there. I know its not much, but it has helped quite a bit when I wheel. and I have not seen any downsides to it, as the bed is strong where it needs to be.

2. Seats: Not sure what you mean about the seats, or are looking for, so I cannot really give opinions. My 06 seats have served me well and they do have lumbar support adjustment knob, so not sure the complaint there, however, I do know they only offered cheap seats back then. if we wanted leather, we had to do special swaps. Now with the new 2016 (maybe older models as well, never looked), they do offer "premium" seats that are leather. Maybe they have better adjustment as well? not sure, but they were nice in leather. haha.

To be honest, going into it was not that excited about the new truck. Like everyone I was pissed they didn't offer diesel, thought the front was ugly, and not enough useful changes. But after going to the event and talking to the engineer, a LOT of things became clear. Here are a few examples that are behind the scenes that normal consumers (including me) never realize that constrains them so you can get an idea of what they deal with.

The new café laws go into effect and are based off vehicle weight. They also get more stringent every year, so Toyota has to design for the future. Someone mentioned Nissan using the titan frame (this was actually a specific example the Toyota engineering's talked about). While that works great this year, and possible next year, that truck with that mass will no longer meet the café rules in a few years, so they will have to either keep making it larger, or go back to drawing boards.
It's the same deal with a diesel. Mike (the chief engineer) wants to drop a diesel in there just as much as we want one, but in order to pass current emissions, it would take over a million dollars invested into it to allow it to pass (yes they have actually looked at this and got the numbers, I mean it when he wants to do it haha). The problem is, that would only pass for 2 more years before it would fail the increasingly stringent laws. So, if they did it, first off you would be getting a neutered diesel (not the hilux engine we all want), that would only be legal for 2 more years. The large trucks can get diesels because again, the laws are weight dependent, so the other option is to keep increasing the size of the Tacoma, but as we all know, that is also a sore spot for most people.

Basically, after talking to the engineer (who ran the Baja 1000), it is clear he knows what off-roaders want, as he is one. And if it was up to him, he would make it happen, but there is a LOT of red tape in the US that stops a lot of great things from happening.

All in all, as with other people, to be perfectly honest, I will keep my 06 because it is a great truck and I've poured a lot of time and sweat into it, and there is nothing in the new one that stands out enough for me to upgrade. That being said, if I was in the market for a new one...I would def look at this one. The cab and interior is 10x better than my 06 (maybe not such a huge improvement over later models like 2015 version...but I'm still running an old 6 disc changer with no screen and a aftermarket Bluetooth module that dies more than it works haha)

 

[toylandcruiser]

A few comments having talked to the chief engineer when I was at the event (These are personal opinions, just to remind you haah):

1. Non box frame: The Toyota engineering team considers this a good thing, not a bad thing (as do I having wheeled my 06 a LOT). The frame is strengthened where it needs to be in order to support loads, however, the flex essentially acts as an extra ~1" of travel. For example, if you look at the picture in my "Other Interesting Features" section of the write-up on EE, you can see how the bed flex helps, in that position, if the bed was boxed all the way back and super stiff, you would be three wheeling. The bed flex allows the wheels to stay on the ground there. I know its not much, but it has helped quite a bit when I wheel. and I have not seen any downsides to it, as the bed is strong where it needs to be.

2. Seats: Not sure what you mean about the seats, or are looking for, so I cannot really give opinions. My 06 seats have served me well and they do have lumbar support adjustment knob, so not sure the complaint there, however, I do know they only offered cheap seats back then. if we wanted leather, we had to do special swaps. Now with the new 2016 (maybe older models as well, never looked), they do offer "premium" seats that are leather. Maybe they have better adjustment as well? not sure, but they were nice in leather. haha.

To be honest, going into it was not that excited about the new truck. Like everyone I was pissed they didn't offer diesel, thought the front was ugly, and not enough useful changes. But after going to the event and talking to the engineer, a LOT of things became clear. Here are a few examples that are behind the scenes that normal consumers (including me) never realize that constrains them so you can get an idea of what they deal with.

The new café laws go into effect and are based off vehicle weight. They also get more stringent every year, so Toyota has to design for the future. Someone mentioned Nissan using the titan frame (this was actually a specific example the Toyota engineering's talked about). While that works great this year, and possible next year, that truck with that mass will no longer meet the café rules in a few years, so they will have to either keep making it larger, or go back to drawing boards.
It's the same deal with a diesel. Mike (the chief engineer) wants to drop a diesel in there just as much as we want one, but in order to pass current emissions, it would take over a million dollars invested into it to allow it to pass (yes they have actually looked at this and got the numbers, I mean it when he wants to do it haha). The problem is, that would only pass for 2 more years before it would fail the increasingly stringent laws. So, if they did it, first off you would be getting a neutered diesel (not the hilux engine we all want), that would only be legal for 2 more years. The large trucks can get diesels because again, the laws are weight dependent, so the other option is to keep increasing the size of the Tacoma, but as we all know, that is also a sore spot for most people.

Basically, after talking to the engineer (who ran the Baja 1000), it is clear he knows what off-roaders want, as he is one. And if it was up to him, he would make it happen, but there is a LOT of red tape in the US that stops a lot of great things from happening.

All in all, as with other people, to be perfectly honest, I will keep my 06 because it is a great truck and I've poured a lot of time and sweat into it, and there is nothing in the new one that stands out enough for me to upgrade. That being said, if I was in the market for a new one...I would def look at this one. The cab and interior is 10x better than my 06 (maybe not such a huge improvement over later models like 2015 version...but I'm still running an old 6 disc changer with no screen and a aftermarket Bluetooth module that dies more than it works haha)

Wwwhhaaaattt? Toyota knows what they're doing? Say it ain't so.


The following is a signature.
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

 

[calicamper]

A few comments having talked to the chief engineer when I was at the event (These are personal opinions, just to remind you haah):

1. Non box frame: The Toyota engineering team considers this a good thing, not a bad thing (as do I having wheeled my 06 a LOT). The frame is strengthened where it needs to be in order to support loads, however, the flex essentially acts as an extra ~1" of travel. For example, if you look at the picture in my "Other Interesting Features" section of the write-up on EE, you can see how the bed flex helps, in that position, if the bed was boxed all the way back and super stiff, you would be three wheeling. The bed flex allows the wheels to stay on the ground there. I know its not much, but it has helped quite a bit when I wheel. and I have not seen any downsides to it, as the bed is strong where it needs to be.

2. Seats: Not sure what you mean about the seats, or are looking for, so I cannot really give opinions. My 06 seats have served me well and they do have lumbar support adjustment knob, so not sure the complaint there, however, I do know they only offered cheap seats back then. if we wanted leather, we had to do special swaps. Now with the new 2016 (maybe older models as well, never looked), they do offer "premium" seats that are leather. Maybe they have better adjustment as well? not sure, but they were nice in leather. haha.

To be honest, going into it was not that excited about the new truck. Like everyone I was pissed they didn't offer diesel, thought the front was ugly, and not enough useful changes. But after going to the event and talking to the engineer, a LOT of things became clear. Here are a few examples that are behind the scenes that normal consumers (including me) never realize that constrains them so you can get an idea of what they deal with.

The new café laws go into effect and are based off vehicle weight. They also get more stringent every year, so Toyota has to design for the future. Someone mentioned Nissan using the titan frame (this was actually a specific example the Toyota engineering's talked about). While that works great this year, and possible next year, that truck with that mass will no longer meet the café rules in a few years, so they will have to either keep making it larger, or go back to drawing boards.
It's the same deal with a diesel. Mike (the chief engineer) wants to drop a diesel in there just as much as we want one, but in order to pass current emissions, it would take over a million dollars invested into it to allow it to pass (yes they have actually looked at this and got the numbers, I mean it when he wants to do it haha). The problem is, that would only pass for 2 more years before it would fail the increasingly stringent laws. So, if they did it, first off you would be getting a neutered diesel (not the hilux engine we all want), that would only be legal for 2 more years. The large trucks can get diesels because again, the laws are weight dependent, so the other option is to keep increasing the size of the Tacoma, but as we all know, that is also a sore spot for most people.

Basically, after talking to the engineer (who ran the Baja 1000), it is clear he knows what off-roaders want, as he is one. And if it was up to him, he would make it happen, but there is a LOT of red tape in the US that stops a lot of great things from happening.

All in all, as with other people, to be perfectly honest, I will keep my 06 because it is a great truck and I've poured a lot of time and sweat into it, and there is nothing in the new one that stands out enough for me to upgrade. That being said, if I was in the market for a new one...I would def look at this one. The cab and interior is 10x better than my 06 (maybe not such a huge improvement over later models like 2015 version...but I'm still running an old 6 disc changer with no screen and a aftermarket Bluetooth module that dies more than it works haha)

The upper management in Toyota invested over a billion in hybrid tech and marketing in the US that is a BIG reason Toyota will avoid bringing Diesel to the US. Given the perception is that you go hybrid or you go diesel if you want higher mileage efficiency vehicles and Toyota pumped massive amounts of money into convincing the US consumer that Hybrid was the answer.

Mercedes, VW, Audi, BMW and GM have no such investment and have no issue offering a variety of Diesel tech in light duty vehicles designed for possible heavy load use such as the Q5, Q7, X5, X3, ML, GL and the soon to be released new GLC, Not to mention the new Canyon/Colorado etc. I saw a great interview with a top Ford Exec three years ago and the PBS interviewer asked him flat out what the story was on Diesel offerings. He was strait up and said every modern Ford vehicle option had a fully certified diesel variant that Ford could have in the US show rooms tomorrow if Ford felt that people would buy them and the numbers would work. He explained that pump price for gasoline needs to be running close to $5 a gallon before most auto makers would seriously consider having a number of diesel variant models on the show room floor.

GM is going diesel now because they need too. Mercedes, BMW, Audi etc all can do it because they sell the vehicles at a high enough premium to make the numbers work even if they are a small % of the vehicles they sell. VW can do it because their diesels they sell are actually pretty cheap to build and offer and the vehicles are light duty small passenger vehicles not heavier SUV's. The Diesel issue is also related to load hauling ability vs diesel emissions the VW Jetta isn't rated to tow 3000lbs in the US because it would not pass emissions standards with that type of load but it does just fine with the typical family of 4 loaded in the car.

The X5 and the GL and ML pass because as you pointed out their weight and vehicle size etc. Also emissions are not retro active meaning a emission legal vehicle sold in the US today is not void in two years because the emissions standards changed.
I think some of what you were told was just the engineer blowing smoke up your back side.

 

[toylandcruiser]

The upper management in Toyota invested over a billion in hybrid tech and marketing in the US that is a BIG reason Toyota will avoid bringing Diesel to the US. Given the perception is that you go hybrid or you go diesel if you want higher mileage efficiency vehicles and Toyota pumped massive amounts of money into convincing the US consumer that Hybrid was the answer.

Mercedes, VW, Audi, BMW and GM have no such investment and have no issue offering a variety of Diesel tech in light duty vehicles designed for possible heavy load use such as the Q5, Q7, X5, X3, ML, GL and the soon to be released new GLC, Not to mention the new Canyon/Colorado etc. I saw a great interview with a top Ford Exec three years ago and the PBS interviewer asked him flat out what the story was on Diesel offerings. He was strait up and said every modern Ford vehicle option had a fully certified diesel variant that Ford could have in the US show rooms tomorrow if Ford felt that people would buy them and the numbers would work. He explained that pump price for gasoline needs to be running close to $5 a gallon before most auto makers would seriously consider having a number of diesel variant models on the show room floor.

GM is going diesel now because they need too. Mercedes, BMW, Audi etc all can do it because they sell the vehicles at a high enough premium to make the numbers work even if they are a small % of the vehicles they sell. VW can do it because their diesels they sell are actually pretty cheap to build and offer and the vehicles are light duty small passenger vehicles not heavier SUV's. The Diesel issue is also related to load hauling ability vs diesel emissions the VW Jetta isn't rated to tow 3000lbs in the US because it would not pass emissions standards with that type of load but it does just fine with the typical family of 4 loaded in the car.

The X5 and the GL and ML pass because as you pointed out their weight and vehicle size etc. Also emissions are not retro active meaning a emission legal vehicle sold in the US today is not void in two years because the emissions standards changed.
I think some of what you were told was just the engineer blowing smoke up your back side.

Funny. This is the exact same post you have used before.
You should explain why it is that hybrids are sold all over the world, yet they still sell diesels everywhere else but here.


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[calicamper]

Funny. This is the exact same post you have used before.
You should explain why it is that hybrids are sold all over the world, yet they still sell diesels everywhere else but here.


The following is a signature.
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Hybrids in Europe are rare and for the most part saw very little marketing money invested in them. They don't even exist in South America or Africa. They are starting to show up in places like Japan and China due to recent gov crack downs on emissions standards but they sell more diesel variants there too.

We have more new Diesel vehicles being sold here today and more companies planning new diesel vehicles to be released soon than any time since the Oil crisis in the 70's. As I said Diesel is not a consideration for Toyota due to the massive investment of capitol into marketing used to create the hybrid consumer for the Toyota hybrid products. Its been mentioned by many in the industry over the years that Toyota has far too much invested convincing people that Hybrid is the better way to go vs say getting a Diesel VW etc. In reality its silly given Toyota could easily sell diesel trucks without damaging its reputation and marketing for hybrid vehicles. But thats not really how Toyota management works.

 

[barlowrs]

Get back to us in 3 yrs with increasing café regulations for "light trucks" and see if the Canyon/Colorado diesel option is still available (could be, but the trucks will have to have a larger footprint to get reduced regulations i.e. be bigger than they are now).

 

[calicamper]

Reading about the GM 2.8 it was reworked to meet epa specs expected to go into effect in the upcomming years. Every auto maker does that makes no sense to invest in a model release then have to rework it a year or two later. They do this with gas engines also. My 2010 Subaru was speced to meet 2015 standards as such no smog testing needed till 2015 etc. Our 2001 VW was speced to meet 2006 standards hence no need to smog it till 2006. The new Ford Fusion we just purchased meets the 2018 standards so no requirements to have it smogged till then.

Diesel light duty regulations are goofy right now given it really has not been managed well for the most part because so few vehicles were sold it didn't really matter that much. Having said that it works the same way GM releasing the new 2.8L diesel Canyon no doubt will be designed to meet a standard thats set for XXXX year probably 2020 or possibly later. However GOV and state requirements may require inspections on diesel vehicles to ensure that their emissions systems have been not been modified or are properly working etc. That would not surprise me given how many recent GOV peeps have been ticked off about the Rolling coal idiots in the older full sized trucks.

 

[Exploring Elements]

Great discussion guys. All valid points and trains of thought.

I'd love a small/mid-sized truck with a diesel option as well, but I can see the many reasons why this is not sold in North America. We'll see how the new GMC/Chevy options do on the market. I think there is a space for them, but doubt they will really sell numbers that make financial sense for development. I drove quite a few diesel options in Australia recently, including a few from Toyota, and can tell you that I honestly don't believe the general American consumer would be interested in owning the engine. Cruising on the hwy at 70 comfortably, and also having the gearing to drive off-road, is not really an option with these small diesels, at least without a ton of creative mods.

I was also surprised by the no standard cab offering, but honestly get it. The two bed length options are offered across all trim levels now and American's are getting taller. I can tell you that I despise driving regular cab trucks, as I'm 6'3" tall and can't get comfortable for long trips.

I agree that the last gen Tacoma seats are kinda ****. I've spent quite a bit of seat time in them and am not impressed. The new seats seems to be a quality upgrade in design and materials. I know a bunch of the old ones have lumbar support, but honestly not sure about the new one.

With all that said I will admit I'm not a modern Tacoma fan, although I do believe that it is the best mid-sized truck on the American market at present. Payload capacity, seating and fuel economy are the things that have steered me away from it in the past. I think Toyota has addressed, maybe modestly, these issues. If I was buying a new overland/offroad vehicle today it would still be the 4 Runner

 

[bkg]

I'd be curious why the engineered tout flexible frames as good, when the global trucks have boxed frames.... As do their SUV's. /confused.

 

[toylandcruiser]

I'd be curious why the engineered tout flexible frames as good, when the global trucks have boxed frames.... As do their SUV's. /confused.

You're not an engineer are you


The following is a signature.
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."