F-150 Diesel

[2025 deleted member]

I think buliwyf would push a ford before he would drive another brand. I used to hate Fords but Ive been really impressed with the one I have now.

 

[charlieaarons]

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Yeah....that isn't going to happen. Honestly ...though this might be oxymoronic...think EV's will be less complicated than what we have now for ICE options. far easier to control emissions at the power station than it is individual vehicles. Would like to see EV's improve than continue to throw R&D at diesel/petrol.

How is that going to work for heavy vehicles like a 12 ton Unimog camper? Mine holds 162 gal fuel, which has a heating value of 5700 kw-h at 100% efficiency. Assuming the diesel engine /drivetrain has an efficiency of 28% (35% for engine, 80% for drivetrain), and electric motor/drivetrain is 80%, that would still require a storage capacity of 2000 kw-h. My camper batteries (lead-acid AGM that weigh 500 lb) have a capacity of about 10 kw-h. If they were current state of the art lithium 500 lb would get you 20-25 kw-h The current fuel supply, engine and transmission/TC weigh about 3500 lb, so that gets one up to 150-175 kw-h. Less that a TENTH of the range I have now. 100-150 miles won't cut it. I don't know if battery technology will advance enough in 1 or even 2 lifetimes to get enough range for a heavy expedition camper.
The comparatively tiny draw of campers is already handled ofetn by solar power. But even there camper heating and hot water heating are sometimes handled with diesel (Webasto/Espar) and cooking with gas (propane/butane).
I totally agree with your conclusion that EVs will be simpler and more efficient that ICEs for small vehicles, particularly where limited range is required (i.e. the scooter craze)

 

[Buliwyf]

For 250/2500 and bigger, I'm Ford only. After driving/owning them, and testing and getting under the others, buying a 17-18 GM or Doge, doesn't make any sense at all to me.

The new 17+ is pretty darn good, especially if you avoid the nonsense plagued models. Unless the new GM/Doge 19's, if they ever come out, are drastically better. I doubt it. I actually won't touch an F150. I'm pissy that Ford doesn't make a Raptor XL. The F150's look ugly sitting next to a Raptor.

No idea what I'll get stuck with at work, but I might be in luck, they're leaning Ford as well lately. Ford or GM, no chance of Ram at work.

 

[Clutch]

How is that going to work for heavy vehicles like a 12 ton Unimog camper? )

Well Charlie, if I had that answer do you think I would complaining about the ever rising cost of "little" pickup trucks?

Military is working on it though, of course they have the budget.

https://electrek.co/2017/10/18/us-army-electric-revolution-official-talks-all-electric-brigades/

I think buliwyf would push a ford before he would drive another brand. I used to hate Fords but Ive been really impressed with the one I have now.

Ha ha! Ford went through some rough years, they churned out some real crap there for awhile. Their current truck lineup is "arguably" the best out there right now.

 

[Dalko43]

The issue here is when that diesel engine is out of warranty. The fuel system alone will cost $$$$ to fix when it breaks. Bad fuel can quickly kill these systems which is one bad fuel tank away. Additives can help mitigate these but now you are talking about adding something else. DEF isn't too much of a problem until it breaks.

Overall unless you permanently have a toolbox + crane on the back (which you are driving a F-450) or you are always towing a trailer (which you are driving a 3/4 or 1 ton) then its not needed. For occasional duty, the 5.0 is a fantastic engine that returns respectable numbers when unloaded. Its simplicity makes up that mpg gap the first time you have to put a turbo on something.

The 5.0l is reliable, but I doubt it will be around for much longer. Even with all the little tricks that Ford and other OEM's use to try and regain efficiency, it's going to be hard-pressed to meet EPA efficiency standards of the near future. The 3.5l ecoboost offers some advantages in that regard, but in real-world driving, it's not all that much better.

The 3.0l powerstroke and comparable engines offer true efficiency advantages; quite often, the real-world mpg exceeds the EPA rating. Emissions sucked at first, but they've gotten a whole lot better in a very short amount of time. And the commerical-grade diesels have made huge strides in making the emissions systems serviceable, and replaceable, for long term use; as time goes on, the maintenance for those systems will become easier and less costly.

No idea what I'll get stuck with at work, but I might be in luck, they're leaning Ford as well lately. Ford or GM, no chance of Ram at work.

Do you really need to go down that rabbit hole again? We get it: you don't like GM's or Dodge's. Plenty of others do like them. I recently did a drive up the Dalton highway; all the energy workers up there were driving 3/4 and 1 ton's from all 3 OEM's. The Ram HD's were just as numerous as the Ford's.

 

[Buliwyf]

It's amusing that some get so defensive, so quickly. LOLz. There are better things to tie your ego onto.

 

[Dalko43]

It's amusing that some get so defensive, so quickly. LOLz. There are better things to tie your ego onto.

This coming from the guy who routinely preaches the superiority of the Church of the Latter-Day Ford Trucks.

Pot, meet kettle...

I have no problem acknowledging my specific likes and dislikes for any particular brand, to include Toyota and Ram.

 

[2025 deleted member]

This coming from the guy who routinely preaches the superiority of the Church of the Latter-Day Ford Trucks.

Pot, meet kettle...

I have no problem acknowledging my specific likes and dislikes for any particular brand, to include Toyota and Ram.

Boxed frame or c-channel?

 

[Clutch]

Dalko, do have any real world experience of actually hauling and towing heavy? Or just like go over spec sheets?

I know PlainJane and Buliwyf does....but do you? You never really say what kind of experience(s) you have.

And you know I have since I like to talk so much about life outside of Expo.

Boxed frame or c-channel?

Tube...

 

[Dalko43]

Yep i do. Both with gasoline and diesel 4x4’s.

The gasoline engines work; the Diesel engines work better and more efficiently.

Some people will pay the premium for that extra performance, others won’t. All the major brands have decent reliability nowadays, and all of them have exceptions to that trend.

There really is no right or wrong answer. Which is why when I see someone repeatedly claim that brand x is the only one suited for hard work and brand y sucks, or someone claim that engine A makes financial sense but engine B is a foolish buy, I write it off as fanboys with an axe to grind.


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[NevadaLover]

There really is no right or wrong answer. Which is why when I see someone repeatedly claim that brand x is the only one suited for hard work and brand y sucks, or someone claim that engine A makes financial sense but engine B is a foolish buy, I write it off as fanboys with an axe to grind.

Now that, is just about the most truthful statement that has ever been written on the internet!

 

[michlong]

I am new on here but this whole deisel or gas f150 thing makes me chuckle. I'm a Brit living the in US for about 12 years, I had 3 turbo deisels of various sorts while in the UK, an Audi A4 2.0TDI, a Mercerdes ML270CDi and my wife had a Toyota Rav4 2.0TDi. These were all great, at the time when diesel cost the same as gas, you got better fuel economy they were cheaper to run. All had that low down torque that turbo diesels provide, even better when you have a manual gearbox. But now seems that the whole industry (apart from the US) is moving back toward smaller gas powered turbo units. When here we are just getting diesels. The price of diesel is right now $3.12/gallon versus $2.65/gallon (I looked on gas buddy for my local gas station) for regular, so any benefit you get from a diesel is pretty much gone and they want $4000 more, true you get some increased towing capabiltiy, but you also get a slower truck. BTW I have a 2016 3.5Ecoboost and therefore I may be biased, but it's my favorite all time vehicle, yes its eco OR boost (and I frankly live more on the boost side of the house). But I can't think of any single reason I would pick the diesel over the gas.

Feel free to shoot me down in flames this is just my two cents.

 

[Dalko43]

I am new on here but this whole deisel or gas f150 thing makes me chuckle. I'm a Brit living the in US for about 12 years, I had 3 turbo deisels of various sorts while in the UK, an Audi A4 2.0TDI, a Mercerdes ML270CDi and my wife had a Toyota Rav4 2.0TDi. These were all great, at the time when diesel cost the same as gas, you got better fuel economy they were cheaper to run. All had that low down torque that turbo diesels provide, even better when you have a manual gearbox. But now seems that the whole industry (apart from the US) is moving back toward smaller gas powered turbo units.

Diesels haven't been "cheaper" to maintain since the advent of the electronically-controlled common rail injection systems. Between fuel filter changes, oil changes, and infrequent, but costly, injector changeout's, modern diesels (post 2003 or so) have cost just as much, if not more, than gasoline engines to maintain.

Maybe back in the day when everyone was running dirty, but simple, mechanical diesels, they may have in fact been cheaper to maintain, but that certainly hasn't been the case for quite some time now.

Diesel vehicles were economically attractive in Europe because the EU subsidized that fuel type in the hopes of cutting CO2 emissions, but they seemed to be ignoring the other emissions that diesel engines put out, until recently.

The passenger cars in Europe, and many other places, seem to be transitioning away from diesel. The 4x4's and trucks will likely continue to rely on it for the immediate future. If you read about the big global truck makers, you'll see that they haven't shown any sign of turning away from diesel engines.

 

[michlong]

Diesels haven't been "cheaper" to maintain since the advent of the electronically-controlled common rail injection systems. Between fuel filter changes, oil changes, and infrequent, but costly, injector changeout's, modern diesels (post 2003 or so) have cost just as much, if not more, than gasoline engines to maintain.

Maybe back in the day when everyone was running dirty, but simple, mechanical diesels, they may have in fact been cheaper to maintain, but that certainly hasn't been the case for quite some time now.

Diesel vehicles were economically attractive in Europe because the EU subsidized that fuel type in the hopes of cutting CO2 emissions, but they seemed to be ignoring the other emissions that diesel engines put out, until recently.

The passenger cars in Europe, and many other places, seem to be transitioning away from diesel. The 4x4's and trucks will likely continue to rely on it for the immediate future. If you read about the big global truck makers, you'll see that they haven't shown any sign of turning away from diesel engines.

So, like I said there is no good reason to buy the diesel.

 

[Dalko43]

Diesels haven't been "cheaper" to maintain since the advent of the electronically-controlled common rail injection systems. Between fuel filter changes, oil changes, and infrequent, but costly, injector changeout's, modern diesels (post 2003 or so) have cost just as much, if not more, than gasoline engines to maintain.

Maybe back in the day when everyone was running dirty, but simple, mechanical diesels, they may have in fact been cheaper to maintain, but that certainly hasn't been the case for quite some time now.

Diesel vehicles were economically attractive in Europe because the EU subsidized that fuel type in the hopes of cutting CO2 emissions, but they seemed to be ignoring the other emissions that diesel engines put out, until recently.

The passenger cars in Europe, and many other places, seem to be transitioning away from diesel. The 4x4's and trucks will likely continue to rely on it for the immediate future. If you read about the big global truck makers, you'll see that they haven't shown any sign of turning away from diesel engines.

So, like I said there is no good reason to buy the diesel.

That depends heavily on your reasons/intentions for the vehicle.

If you don’t want to deal with extra maintenance, I agree that a gasoline engine can make sense. If you’re sick of getting 17-18 mpg combined with a gasoline v6 midsized, maybe you’re willing to accept the extra maintenance associated with a diesel.


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