Dual battery in-cabin and Solar setup

[67cj5]

I know the x2 Power 27F is AGM and dual cycle, not sure of the other Renogy battery though. Is there something I’m missing that makes the 27F that much more expensive?

Well the first one is 92Ah and the 2nd one is 220Ah, The 92Ah will give you about 46Ah of useable power taking the battery down to 50% and the 2nd battery will give you 110Ah of useable power taking it down to 50%, This 50% guideline is so that you don't damage the battery, But saying that a lot of AGM batteries can be taken down to as much as 80% leaving an SoC of 20%,

That's why the other one is so expensive,

Hope that helps.

 

[john61ct]

Can, as in won't be immediately damaged.

Does not mean won't murder the cycle lifetimes.

For true deep cycling usage, in the north american market, the "only" brands worth considering for quality AGM - if you really need AGM - are:

Lifeline
Northstar
Odyssey

but none will last as long as the much cheaper FLA equivalent, so the cost per Ah per year will be **much** higher.

As will buying cheaper AGM since the cycling lifetime is so much shorter.

 

[67cj5]

Can, as in won't be immediately damaged.

Does not mean won't murder the cycle lifetimes.

For true deep cycling usage, in the north american market, the "only" brands worth considering for quality AGM - if you really need AGM - are:

Lifeline
Northstar
Odyssey

but none will last as long as the much cheaper FLA equivalent, so the cost per Ah per year will be **much** higher.

As will buying cheaper AGM since the cycling lifetime is so much shorter.

Yeah John that's what I am finding, All the tales about FLA's being the lowest of the low does not match the performance that I am seeing from my FLA's, I don't know if it is the Thicker Plates or the quality of the make up of the Battery but the Voltage and Recovery when allowed to rest for 20/30 minutes and the speed of charging and the length of time they will hold a Charge is way better than anything I have used before, Even better than my Vehicles AGM Battery, I was kind of hoping to replace my AGM with one of my FLA's but I can't see that working out too good.

My FLA's have a 5 year Guarantee and can be cycled down to 30% SoC 600 times according to the specs, As a Rule I have never taken them below 60% / 70% SoC,

As a matter of interest I have been running the ARB from them since yesterday set to -18*c /-0.4*f which means the fridge is giving the battery a good workout and the battery is still reading above 12.727v, Gotta Love Deep Cycle FLA's for everyday use.

 

[67cj5]

Just as a point of interest, If I was going to power a Cabin I would be going for 4 X 230 Deep Cycle Batteries and if I wanted to have a back up setup I would fit them in 2 banks of 2 so while I was using one pair I could be charging the other and just have a switch so I could select either bank and have another switch so I could select which bank I wanted to charge, that would work out a lot cheaper than buying 2 big AGM batteries and give you 920Ah to play with.

 

[john61ct]

And at a buck per Ah @12V too, for the Deka / Duracell

I reckon as good as T105's

US Battery, Crown, Superior all good, whichever sells local to you

Surrette/Rolls at the top

 

[moose545]

I was comparing the 27F to this: In the $400 range I could get the single battery that's 200Ah though....

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B084M4825...olid=2FRZM3I4WGK60&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

But there are other options here that are similar:
https://www.batteriesplus.com/productdetails/sli49agm

Duracell Ultra Platinum AGM BCI Group 31P Dual Purpose (Starting/Cycling) Heavy Duty Battery - SLI31PAGM at Batteries Plus Bulbs

Group 31P Duracell AGM replacement battery made for low maintenance and dependable engine starting power. Made for John Deere, Diamond, Kohler Company and more

www.batteriesplus.com

Duracell Ultra Platinum AGM BCI Group 95R Car and Truck Battery - SLI95RAGM at Batteries Plus Bulbs

Duracell group 95R AGM replacement battery designed for low maintenance and dependable engine starting power. Designed for Audi, BMW, Volkswagen and more

www.batteriesplus.com

Also, X2 Power bought NorthStar from what I've learned, or they're same parent co.

 

[67cj5]

I was comparing the 27F to this: In the $400 range I could get the single battery that's 220Ah though....

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B084M4825...olid=2FRZM3I4WGK60&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

But there are other options here that are similar:
https://www.batteriesplus.com/productdetails/sli49agm

Duracell Ultra Platinum AGM BCI Group 31P Dual Purpose (Starting/Cycling) Heavy Duty Battery - SLI31PAGM at Batteries Plus Bulbs

Group 31P Duracell AGM replacement battery made for low maintenance and dependable engine starting power. Made for John Deere, Diamond, Kohler Company and more

www.batteriesplus.com

Duracell Ultra Platinum AGM BCI Group 95R Car and Truck Battery - SLI95RAGM at Batteries Plus Bulbs

Duracell group 95R AGM replacement battery designed for low maintenance and dependable engine starting power. Designed for Audi, BMW, Volkswagen and more

www.batteriesplus.com

Also, X2 Power bought NorthStar from what I've learned, or they're same parent co.

What is attracting you towards AGM batteries ??

 

[moose545]

What is attracting you towards AGM batteries ??

I was initially going to run a single battery for everything and replaced by OEM battery with the 27F, but once my fridge killed it dead once my truck sat 3-4 days without running, I opted for another approach.

 

[john61ct]

Call the three vendors and ask for **local** dealers

do not pay shipping for lead!

Northstar makes X2 I believe maybe OK, but ask them, for solar-type deep cycling how it compares to their TPPL Blue+ line.

Lifeline allows for equalizing, IMO that's a plus.

But, do you **really need** sealed?

If not FLA is better value, different list of top makers, no overlap

 

[moose545]

Call the three vendors and ask for **local** dealers

do not pay shipping for lead!

Northstar makes X2 I believe maybe OK, but ask them, for solar-type deep cycling how it compares to their TPPL Blue+ line.

Lifeline allows for equalizing, IMO that's a plus.

But, do you **really need** sealed?

If not FLA is better value, different list of top makers, no overlap

I was under the impression if it's going to be in a battery box enclosure I'm building that holds my Redarc, hub, and gauges in the cabin/cargo area, then it needed to be fully sealed. Is that true?

 

[67cj5]

I was initially going to run a single battery for everything and replaced by OEM battery with the 27F, but once my fridge killed it dead once my truck sat 3-4 days without running, I opted for another approach.

I'm running 3 Type 31's duel purpose DC FLA's and they are almost 3 years old in 2 months and they have more CCA's now than they are meant to have and more than they had when they delivered them, and their Voltage is always above 13.25v, After being on charge and allowed to rest for 24 hours they normally read 13.35v +. that extra voltage allows me to run the fridge for a good extra 12+ hours before it gets down to 12.8v.

 

[john61ct]

FLA should not be in the same box sealed with electronics.

So don't do that is all.

AGM do vent as well, just less. And sometimes explode if you're dumb.

 

[moose545]

FLA should not be in the same box sealed with electronics.

So don't do that is all.

AGM do vent as well, just less. And sometimes explode if you're dumb.

So if the batteries I listed, if you were to choose one, which would it be and why? I don't plan or want to use lead-acid, so AGM or the Renogy gel which I know is fully sealed.

 

[moose545]

Looking at the safety hub again, I think that's way overkill, and a simpler 6 circuit fuse block would be just fine don't you?

Amazon.com : Blue Sea Systems 5025 ST Blade Fuse Block - 6 Circuits with Negative Bus and Cover : Auxiliary Fuse Block : Sports & Outdoors

Amazon.com : Blue Sea Systems 5025 ST Blade Fuse Block - 6 Circuits with Negative Bus and Cover : Auxiliary Fuse Block : Sports & Outdoors

www.amazon.com

 

[rayra]

I was under the impression if it's going to be in a battery box enclosure I'm building that holds my Redarc, hub, and gauges in the cabin/cargo area, then it needed to be fully sealed. Is that true?

That's pretty much bunk, a carryover again from old off-grid housing solar with big flooded 6V golf cart batteries and poor charging controls, resulting in potential for a lot of hydrogen buildup. And even then the concern was grossly wrong, as the LAST thing you want to do is try to contain that gas. 1) because you are helping create the combustible concentration when you do so and 2) actual rocket scientists have a hard time containing hydrogen. The average joe isn't doing it in a plywood and foam gasketed box. And SHOULDN'T do it in a tightly gasketed one, either.

Keep in mind that a lot of cars have had their batteries in the passenger compartment or trunk over the last century. Try to find any news reports of a hydrogen ignition. Old volkswagens and american pickups had them under the seat. Other american sedans too, some even into the 1990s. Lots of euro sedans still have them in the trunk.

Battery tech and charge controllers have improved greatly. And frankly there's a lot of lore that is downright garbage. Be more concerned about keeping water / fluids away from energized electronics. That's a far greater issue than anything to do with hydrogen generation.


/but don't listen to me, I'm just an old guy driving a wagon around Pepperidge Farm, remembering.