integrated compact truck in the us

[pugslyyy]

I really wish there was a US company building international overland rigs like Maltec and Extrem out of Germany. So many companies building that style (and larger) in Europe https://www.gekkotruck.de/links/

Again, the issue is not the box builder it is the lack of a suitable chassis in North America. We would love to build on more diverse platforms but for the US market the full-size 1-ton or larger pickup truck is the most broadly used. There's peace of mind that comes from knowing you can find service just about anywhere.

 

[DzlToy]

So build a top-notch box on a regular-cab, long-bed or extended chassis one-ton pickup... Americans don't want a Gelandewagen or a 79 Series with a 6 to 8-foot box on the back to get off the beaten track; they want a crew cab F-350 with a 14' camper on the back or an MAN 8x8 so they can pack 7 kids, 3 dogs and 300 gallons of water to go "overlanding" for a few days. The markets are vastly different between the EU and the US, and, in my opinion, that is why we do not have companies like Unicat and Action Mobil in the States.

I have met people at the dozen or so OvEx shows that I have been to, who have ridden thousands of miles off road on motorcycles and bicycles and in other small, ill-suited vehicles, such a J40 Series LandCruisers, Jimnys and the like. This flies in the face of, "bigger is better" and "more is more better", which is so prevalent in the American, consumeristic/consumptionistic marketplace. If Suzuki thought Jimnys would sell in the US market, they would be brought here.

IIRC one of the mainstream US manufacturers built a fiberglass body onto the back of a four-door JK years ago, after removing the factory rear door and hard top. While I am not a Jeep fan, this is certainly appealing from a size standpoint. As noted previously, this is simply not a suitable platform for a camper, nor is the current crop of quarter-ton pickup trucks such as those made by Toyota, Nissan and Ford. The weight carrying capacity just isn't there. Ideally, you need a 70-Series LandCruiser or something similar if you are going to mount a small camper and seriously go over landing. If you just want to go camping, buy any old pickup or an SUV, some decent gear and hit the road.

 

[Herbie]

I think the relative success (and year-long waiting lists) for companies building lightweight canopy-style campers shows that, at least, there's a diversity among what can sell in North America.

I agree that the midsize trucks available here are not well suited for integrated camper builds, but I disagree that the only valid steps after a Tacoma with a GFC are a 3/4-ton with a FWC or a 1-ton+ w/ a fully insulated box-build.

If a software engineer can home-build a 4-person pop-top camper w/ all the necessities and stay under the 6100lb GVRW on a minivan (or more charitably, a mid-size van), then there ought to be a way for someone smarter than me to achieve something worthwhile on a half-ton truck with a 2000+ lbs payload option. I've been waiting for something Maltec-like to hit the NA market. If it hasn't landed by the time my kiddo goes to college, I guess that'll be my next project. :/

 

[Porkchopexpress]

From articles I've read on development of midsized trucks for the US market, there is a big difference in the safety requirements, (crumple zones, ect.) Also, the Asian and European markets use the midsize trucks instead of full size to fit local roads so the frames are thicker and heavier, (worse fuel economy) where as the American midsized trucks are designed for light duty and economy.

 

[DzlToy]

EarthRoamer used to offer an 11 - 12 foot (??) box on the back of a regular-cab F-250. They no longer do and I have not seen one in years, so obviously that model did not sell well. People buy what is out on the market, so if ER doesn't make it any longer, you can't buy that model, unless they build it on request.

On the other hand, if there were a reasonable demand for a Maltec G500 or VDJ-79-sized camper, especially with the aforementioned wait times on other platforms, someone would be building that camper. There does seem to be a huge gap between GFC on a Tacoma an a 500k XV-LT. Hmmm....

Build it and they will come...

 

[polomasta]

Americans don't want a Gelandewagen or a 79 Series with a 6 to 8-foot box on the back to get off the beaten track;

<--- this one does... and I know quite a few others that do as well... I guess we'll keep going overseas to get them.

 

[pugslyyy]

I think the relative success (and year-long waiting lists) for companies building lightweight canopy-style campers shows that, at least, there's a diversity among what can sell in North America.

I agree that the midsize trucks available here are not well suited for integrated camper builds, but I disagree that the only valid steps after a Tacoma with a GFC are a 3/4-ton with a FWC or a 1-ton+ w/ a fully insulated box-build.

If a software engineer can home-build a 4-person pop-top camper w/ all the necessities and stay under the 6100lb GVRW on a minivan (or more charitably, a mid-size van), then there ought to be a way for someone smarter than me to achieve something worthwhile on a half-ton truck with a 2000+ lbs payload option. I've been waiting for something Maltec-like to hit the NA market. If it hasn't landed by the time my kiddo goes to college, I guess that'll be my next project. :/

I think part of the issue is that customers expect smaller campers to be less expensive, but the reality is that they have all the same systems and lighter materials are usually more expensive rather than less. It's not like a 20 gallon water tank costs significantly less than a 75 gallon one, etc.

We would struggle to build one of our campers under 2500 pounds (dry), but granted the lifting roof mechanism and overlapping layers adds a bit of weight.

 

[polomasta]

I think part of the issue is that customers expect smaller campers to be less expensive, but the reality is that they have all the same systems and lighter materials are usually more expensive rather than less. It's not like a 20 gallon water tank costs significantly less than a 75 gallon one, etc.

We would struggle to build one of our campers under 2500 pounds (dry), but granted the lifting roof mechanism and overlapping layers adds a bit of weight.

The market that wants an F250 truck camper is not made up of the people that want to drive around the world, living full-time out of the rig. The people who are actually serious about wanting smaller campers are faced with $150,000+ price tags from the European companies. I was quoted ~$80k by Maltec to convert our GX460... they chop the body, extend the chassis and beef up components. Their stuff is $200k+ for a turn-key rig and multi-year wait. $190k+ at Extrem, also out of Germany. 350-450k euro from Orangework for a build similar to this:


Would be happy to find something similar in the US even if similarly priced.

 

[Herbie]

I understand where you're coming from Pugslyyy, but for some of us, but I do think there's a fertile middle ground where the envelopes of price, size, and performance have yet to be exploited.

My needs are not the same as someone who will full-time around the world. A 24' long or 10'+ high truck is beyond upper limit of the size that will fit on some of my favorite trails. Even for my "reach" goals of a pan-american journey, such a rig would be detrimentally big.
On the other hand, a Tacoma-plus-canopy solution is under insulated and equipped for my needs.

There are a few offerings in the goldilocks zone, but as polomasta points out, the prices there reflect their scarcity and quite possibly the paucity of options.

We've got sub-$10k toppers, ~$10k canopies, ~$20k side-ins, then there's a jump to $50k flatbed solutions that require $50k trucks, and then we get bigger, fancier, and heavier from there.

 

[DzlToy]

^^ That vehicle is likely head and shoulders (quality) above anything built in the States, up to and including absurdly over-priced International and F-750-based trucks selling for 1M+. As noted a few posts up, a very well built small camper (Unicat or Bliss box on a Gelandewagen or 79 Series chassis) will be nearly as expensive, if not more so, than those from the likes of Tiger, ER or EC. I believe this further limits your potential customers if you are a builder. F550 with giant box for 500K or a small box with less space, fuel and water on a G-wagen for 500K? I will take the Ford, says Joe Blow. Couple that with the lack of customers in the US who really want to engage in long-distance travel outside the US, or even within the lower-48, and there is little demand for anything not built on a Superduty, Tacoma or Jeep chassis. I met a guy a few years ago selling an 18 month-old expedition vehicle, built by one of the market makers here. He had travelled, with his wife, to 3 or 4 National Parks, driven about 7,000 miles and was taking a 60k - 80k hit on the truck. For that money, you could hire a private chef, fly first class, hire Sherpas, rent kayaks, motorcycles and snow machines and have money left over. These vehicles make no sense for that type of travel.

On another note, FWC, Alaskan, GXV, ER and EC all started as small companies. With the current interest in outdoor recreation, the chances of finding this niche client, the one who wants a Maltec-sized truck, are better than ever.

 

[pugslyyy]

I understand where you're coming from Pugslyyy, but for some of us, but I do think there's a fertile middle ground where the envelopes of price, size, and performance have yet to be exploited.

My needs are not the same as someone who will full-time around the world. A 24' long or 10'+ high truck is beyond upper limit of the size that will fit on some of my favorite trails. Even for my "reach" goals of a pan-american journey, such a rig would be detrimentally big.
On the other hand, a Tacoma-plus-canopy solution is under insulated and equipped for my needs.

There are a few offerings in the goldilocks zone, but as polomasta points out, the prices there reflect their scarcity and quite possibly the paucity of options.

We've got sub-$10k toppers, ~$10k canopies, ~$20k side-ins, then there's a jump to $50k flatbed solutions that require $50k trucks, and then we get bigger, fancier, and heavier from there.

Have you seen these guys? https://www.truckcampermagazine.com/news/loki-basecamp-launches-falcon-8/

 

[Herbie]

I hadn't seen them. Doesn't look like a choice I would make for myself, but I'm sure the level of finish and the unique rear door will attract customers.

From my perspective, it still has a lot of the layout disadvantages of a slide-in. I'm also confused at how they can build the first 5ft model at 1200 lbs, but them making it 30% longer (6.5') makes it 80% heavier, and 60% longer (8') makes it 150% heavier. If the numbers are honest, I guess they're adding some heavy systems every time it gets 18 inches longer, but I'd like to see the details.

Additionally, while they don't list a total height, just comparing the known-height of the Superduty in their photos against the top of the camper makes me think it's at least 120" tall when mounted.

Pretty far away from what I'd be looking for. If I absolutely had to do a slide-in, I'd probably prefer something along these lines: https://www.gazell.fr/

EDIT: Here's something not exactly perfect, but closer to what I'd choose: https://newatlas.com/automotive/cabineer-flax-composite-truck-camper/
I don't care about the green-construction aspects, but a "bed replacement" style camper where you get the lower floor and overall height of a slide-in (versus a flatbed where everything is above the wheels), with the extra width and volume of an integrated camper, but without the complications of trying to actually join the camper body to the truck cab. More of this, please.

 

[roving1]

EDIT: Here's something not exactly perfect, but closer to what I'd choose: https://newatlas.com/automotive/cabineer-flax-composite-truck-camper/
I don't care about the green-construction aspects, but a "bed replacement" style camper where you get the lower floor and overall height of a slide-in (versus a flatbed where everything is above the wheels), with the extra width and volume of an integrated camper, but without the complications of trying to actually join the camper body to the truck cab. More of this, please.

The whole rear opening up is such a better design than those campers with the little hatch opening. As a bigger guy (read fatass) I don't even fit in those. Yet I am perfectly comfy on a smaller size platform. But the door openings on some of these blingy campers are ludicrously small and uncomfortable to use.

 

[billiebob]

I'm thinking there just is no market. I love them but North America is wide open spaces. If we bought them like Europe, a high density populated country with crowded roads, they would be. But we are a huge land area, with a small population by comparison, and we are big and tall, we like luxurious space so BIG, full size sells here. Try sell a 36' fifth wheel behind a Dodge diesel dually crewcab in Europe.

There is no market here.

 

[Paddler Ed]

There's another aspect; legislation surrounding driving licences.

UK and Europe anything over a GVM of 3500kg requires a commercial vehicle driving licence, and is also speed restricted to 60mph on the motorways (where a vehicle under 3500kg can do 70 in the UK or 130kmh in France)

Australia the threshold is 4500kg, so a touch higher.

These limits are set by vehicle weight not by the purpose of the vehicle; for example in Australia the other day I saw a Mercedes Sprinter 5nn chassis cab motorhome that, because it was a 5nn chassis it was over 4500kg GVM it had Heavy Vehicle registration plates, and therefore the driver would need an appropriate licence to match.