stevenmd
Expedition Leader
I actually like the idea of keeping it all Rover but I also like the idea of decent mpg!:elkgrin:
Power plant change...
- Thread starter stevenmd
- Start date
I actually like the idea of keeping it all Rover but I also like the idea of decent mpg!:elkgrin:
H
Hank
Guest
Well, part of the reason the Rover gets such crappy mpg is because if its junk injection system. If you open the system up a little bit, and allow the motor to breath, the mpg's will improve.
With just an intake and carb alone, you'll see huge improvements in mpg. Mark at D&D claims that an intake and carb can bring 4mpg and almost 20hp to the Rover V8's. Of course, I have no way to confirm this.
But I can tell you that when the heads are re-worked, the power grain is awesome, and the mpg remains unchanged.
With a 4.0L Rover motor, some head work, hotter cam, and a nice intake and 4-bbl carb, you could be cranking 240hp with very little investment. Plus, all the parts to do this swap are off-the-shelf and State side.
It may not be the "coolest" combination, or even the most desired. But the guy has a wife and 5-kids; and we all know a wife cost a lot of money. The Rover V8 is the cheapest option to fill the "needs" of the OP's goal - more power, reliable, and drivable on the street.
A 200tdi could cost as much as $10,000 after engine, transmission, transfercase, and install. He might be able to find a deal and get the job done $6,500.
Who knows what a 4.3L would cost. You can get a wrecked Astro van for ~$1,000, but then you'd need some custom fab and a salad of parts to get it running. It would be like building a rat-rod. That's too "Kevin Willey" for me.
......although, I've seen a 500hp 4.3L before. That would bring a smile to anyone's face in a Series.
With just an intake and carb alone, you'll see huge improvements in mpg. Mark at D&D claims that an intake and carb can bring 4mpg and almost 20hp to the Rover V8's. Of course, I have no way to confirm this.
But I can tell you that when the heads are re-worked, the power grain is awesome, and the mpg remains unchanged.
With a 4.0L Rover motor, some head work, hotter cam, and a nice intake and 4-bbl carb, you could be cranking 240hp with very little investment. Plus, all the parts to do this swap are off-the-shelf and State side.
It may not be the "coolest" combination, or even the most desired. But the guy has a wife and 5-kids; and we all know a wife cost a lot of money. The Rover V8 is the cheapest option to fill the "needs" of the OP's goal - more power, reliable, and drivable on the street.
A 200tdi could cost as much as $10,000 after engine, transmission, transfercase, and install. He might be able to find a deal and get the job done $6,500.
Who knows what a 4.3L would cost. You can get a wrecked Astro van for ~$1,000, but then you'd need some custom fab and a salad of parts to get it running. It would be like building a rat-rod. That's too "Kevin Willey" for me.
......although, I've seen a 500hp 4.3L before. That would bring a smile to anyone's face in a Series.
Oilburner
Adventurer
Rover V8... With carbs no less! Yee haw! All that work and then it drops a liner and you're back to square one. DON'T do this.
I think that in the US, especially with the price of regular gas being cheaper than diesel, you'd be nuts to go for a diesel now, if you want a nice driver that your wife can drive (especially auto). If you do the math, the diesel will not be any cheaper to run than a good fuel injected V8 when you factor in fuel costs and the unbelieveable efficiency of these newer engines. If I were building that exact same truck, I would be looking at a Vortec (4.8 or 5.3) engine with a automatic trans with overdrive, and keep a rover T case. Quiet, smooth, fuel efficient, quiet, lightweight, quiet, parts are everywhere, did I mention quiet?
4.3, I've never been a fan, mostly because it's as much work as a V8, gets the same mileage, and it just doesn't sound as good.
With any engine swap you're looking at a significant investment. The ultimate reliability and how useable the vehicle is depends on what you do now. It will be very difficult to correct any issues in the future if it's not setup right now.
3.54 gears, Series T case, 4L60 trans, 5.3, power steering, and disc brakes, that would be an awesome daily driver and if it's done correctly it would be majorly more reliable than a stock 109.
Edit:
To answer your questions, there are diesels that will push a 109 along quite happily at highway speeds, but they are all louder and less refined than a new-technology fuel injected V8. Especially if you want your family to get involved in this vehicle, a nice quiet ride is a huge help. With the wind noise and "tin can" nature of a Series, a quiet powertrain goes a long way in keeping you and your family sane on road trips.
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Re-line it an pin it. Done. Several shops can provide this service, such as Robinson's and M&D to name but a few. Hell, the preferred Rover Specialist in Chicago has a very good machine shop that has done many without problem over the years.
Gas prices are only going to rise. Period.
I'd maximize MPG for any DD.
Blueboy
Adventurer
Blueboy (NADA 109) has a fuel injected 4.0 Rover V8 with a LT230 and R380 box mated to it - basically a US '93 110 drivetrain set-up.
it would have been possible to have had the Rover auto box yet I like a manual in a Series
does great on and off-highway power wise.
Mileage wise it is the same as a 110 - nothing to write home about.
After having a 110 with a 300Tdi while living in Brasil, I would have gone with a 200Tdi if doing the work today.
All in all though, the Rover V8 in a 109 does as well as it does in a '93 110 which isn't too bad.
Jaime
it would have been possible to have had the Rover auto box yet I like a manual in a Series
does great on and off-highway power wise.
Mileage wise it is the same as a 110 - nothing to write home about.
After having a 110 with a 300Tdi while living in Brasil, I would have gone with a 200Tdi if doing the work today.
All in all though, the Rover V8 in a 109 does as well as it does in a '93 110 which isn't too bad.
Jaime
Well thought out ones are. Who wouldn't want to know the range of their vehicle? Who wouldn't want to know the operating costs? Availability of fuel in any given operating environment...
Trail trucks don't matter. For a true expedition vehicle and/or daily I would say that taking a proactive look at the cost of fuel and MPG is common sense. A V-8 with 12 MPG looks good at $2 a gallon. Not so good at $4 MPG. Especially if you price alternatives such as bio-fuel that has been home brewed.
Mercedesrover
Explorer
Kevin's right on here. Gaining fuel economy is the absolute last reason for doing an engine swap. It's a nice bonus but certainly not a reason to embark on a conversion.
Oilburner
Adventurer
At what cost? By the time you have sorted the many Rover V8 issues and have installed a non-junk ignition and fuel injection system, that 1000$ 60K mile take-out Vortec 5.3 and trans + 500$ aftermarket harness is looking really good, not to mention it gets better mileage and it will outlast the rover V8.
The only good justification for an engine swap is the one that works with your wife/SO/own conscience.
Twice. V8 upgrades into Jeeps. One was to the AMC 8, the other to a 350.
Again, I would consider it as common sense. I did. Especially on anything outside a trail rig.
I said it was common sense to consider it as well as other things as part of a re-power, not as the principle reason for a re-power.
If you look at a re-power holistically, then yes, fuel attributes should be considered amongst the numerous other items.
The last one I ran across I asked the price and the owner told me. It wasn't more than a new Vortec, wiring harness and injection system, that was for sure.
The Vortec looks terrible. Your forgetting the carnage to the entire drive train - nothing rover is going to hold up to it. Add axles, transmission, shafts, ect... and the Vortec gets real expensive real quick.
Everyone has their own swap justifications, indeed. I start out with a simple rule of thumb. Is it going to better or worse than the starting place and am I going to spend more or less than I anticipate? Usually you get bit in the MMM with the expenditures. Who wants to drop $15k on re-engineering the wheel? Not me!
stevenmd
Expedition Leader
Wow, all excellent replies! More information than I expected. Also, more information to confuse me! Here is what I am after:
1 - Enough power to carry the vehicle at highway speed with a small trailer.
2 - Enough power to get up to highway speed. I consider this a safety factor. I am not into speeding or accelerating as fast as possible but it is nice to have when you share the highways with big rigs.
3 - An engine that runs as quiet as possible.
4 - I don't want to say "cost is no object" but I'd rather spend an extra $10,000 the first time around than be disappointed in the results.
I have even more questions now:
1 - Is a diesel really that much louder than a Vortec V8?
2 - Will all the extra torque with a more powerful engine really tear up my remaining drivetrain? If so, should I upgrade the axles? But I already have the Sals rear end...
3 - Which would be better - the original TC or swapping in an LT230?
4 - What about the tranny? Mating up the auto that is in a rangie or disco or using a Chevy auto tranny mated to a rover TC? If a rangie or disco tranny is recommended, which one? Rangie or disco?
Thanks!
1 - Enough power to carry the vehicle at highway speed with a small trailer.
2 - Enough power to get up to highway speed. I consider this a safety factor. I am not into speeding or accelerating as fast as possible but it is nice to have when you share the highways with big rigs.
3 - An engine that runs as quiet as possible.
4 - I don't want to say "cost is no object" but I'd rather spend an extra $10,000 the first time around than be disappointed in the results.
I have even more questions now:
1 - Is a diesel really that much louder than a Vortec V8?
2 - Will all the extra torque with a more powerful engine really tear up my remaining drivetrain? If so, should I upgrade the axles? But I already have the Sals rear end...
3 - Which would be better - the original TC or swapping in an LT230?
4 - What about the tranny? Mating up the auto that is in a rangie or disco or using a Chevy auto tranny mated to a rover TC? If a rangie or disco tranny is recommended, which one? Rangie or disco?
Thanks!
Yorker
Adventurer
1. Which diesel? they are all different.
2. which remaining drive train? this stuff breaks with a 2.25l, if you drive sympathetically sure it will last with more torque. The stock Sals is good- but not great as is, everything down there could stand some upgrading once you have some real torque and heavy loads
.
3. there is nothing wrong with the original TC- the expense involved with keeping it though- that is where the other options might be more viable- particularly if you need to rebuild it while you are doing this.