CO2 tank mount inside cab?
- Thread starter scottg
- Start date
spressomon
Expedition Leader
No problem storing your CO2 tank horizontally. Just be sure to use the tank only when its vertical!
off-roader
Expedition Leader
What he said. Liquid CO2 tanks only work when the spout is in the gas section of the inside of the tank. If not, no gas can come out.
It may be of concern to you, when your tank has just been filled, to store it in the inside of a vehicle. In Phoenix, when summer temps frequently reach 110+ (and temps can exceed 200+ inside of your vehicle) the liquid could expand enough to blow the safety valve.
Thus an empty tank when you need it most.
Thus an empty tank when you need it most.
scottg
Observer
dang, I didnt think of that....
Im have to see if its easily removable from that location
off-roader
Expedition Leader
It was pretty warm here this past weekend (103* w/ 116* in my Monty). That said, it would be pretty bad if your tank vented due to overheating or over pressure while you're in the rig. Would be a very bad thing. Have there been any documented accidents caused by this?:Wow1:
LilKJ
Adventurer
This is a topic that always leaves me wondering. I see so many off roaders with CO2 tanks mounted inside their vehicles with no C02 level monitoring of any kind. If the safety valve pops or a slow leak develops in the regulator, line, etc your vehicle can slowly (or quickly) fill up with C02. Also, in the event of an accident or rollover, neither Powertank nor the other companies have any protective measures in place for the regulator. It doesn't take too much to snap those off with less than friendly results. I have seen the aftermath of a rollover where a SCUBA cylinder's valve broke off... not pretty.
I personally treat them with the same respect one would a propane tank and leave them outside or at home until needed (notice the mandatory regulator/valve protection on propane tanks?)
On the other hand, some have told me that my line of work has made me paranoid of such things:Wow1:
I personally treat them with the same respect one would a propane tank and leave them outside or at home until needed (notice the mandatory regulator/valve protection on propane tanks?)
On the other hand, some have told me that my line of work has made me paranoid of such things:Wow1:
spressomon
Expedition Leader
Agreed: Maximum safety should always be the goal. I'm not condoning or even suggesting one neglect this approach. But for some carrying a fire-extinguisher, CO2 tank, etc. isn't practical on the exterior of the rig. And in a rollover situation depending upon the type of rig the regulator/bottle may be more exposed to severe damage on the outside of the rig.
FWIW: I, originally, took my tank to a local dry ice business for refills because it was about $8 cheaper. The attendants usually didn't speak much if any english and I don't speak spanish so perfect communication was a chore. After 3 or 4 successful refills I noticed a strange smell in the LC. Checking the CO2 tanks revealed the high pressure valve blew. Apparently the guy overfilled the tank! It cost me another refill from a reputable re-filler (fire extinguisher business) and a $45 re-certification.
So far no other incidents. The truck hasn't seen 120 degree outside temps but has been locked up when the outside mercury hit 100 without issue.
Is this the best and safest approach? I would agree it probably isn't. But in the overall scheme of things I do with my rig it probably has a lower risk assessment on the risk meter.
off-roader
Expedition Leader
From my understanding this is not as vital an issue as you might think...
Excerpt from Powertank.com...
Linky for your reference... http://powertank.com/faqs#question16
I think a more dangerous problem would that if a valve fails just slight enough that's it leaks CO2 out unnoticed then the buildup of CO2 gas can/will make it difficult to breath sufficient O2.:Wow1:
This could be catastrophic if you were driving down the road if this happened.
Bah, buy a $10 co2 sensor and stick it in the cab if it concerns you. I wouldn't give it a second thought unless I was sleeping inside the vehicle with it, and then I might buy a co2 alarm.
Fire extinguishers have compressed co2 in them as well, and nobody gives those a second thought when storing them inside the vehicle...
Fire extinguishers have compressed co2 in them as well, and nobody gives those a second thought when storing them inside the vehicle...
Have had mine in the back of my Liberty for close to 2 years now, from cold to very hot, sits right inside the rear hatch so does get some sun on it. Never worry about it as I was told by a firecheif about the same thing that was posted above. Extingushers have CO2 and should never be anything to worry about
Chris85xlt
Adventurer
ive had mine in the back of my bronco for about 5 years. i then recently had it retested and its now in my jeep. so far so good...
Herbie
Rendezvous Conspirator
OK, this is an issue I can actually speak to from direct experience:
Back in my Battlebot days I used to have SMALL CO2 tanks filled at the local paintball place. (4oz, 8oz, and 20oz paintball-marker sized tanks).
On one occasion the counter-jockey overfilled a 4oz tank. Standard filling procedure for PB tanks is to partially fill then vent the tank to chill it so that it can be properly filled with a measured mass of liquid CO2 (leaving appropriate headspace for the gas-over-liquid volume at room temperature.) As I drove home from the PB store, the overfilled tank warmed back to ambient temperature while sitting on the passenger seat of my car and the safety burst disk blew.
Aside from the shock of the sound of a blown disc, the car was nearly INSTANTLY filled with condensed water vapor and CO2. Luckily I was on a straight, non-busy road and I have "auto-down" power windows, so I was able to quickly open all four windows in the vehicle and attempt to pull over and vent the "fog".
Later calculations showed that the C02 concentration might have been enough to cause harm, but I can certainly say that the more immediate danger was the sudden release of a cryogenic gas in an enclosed space.
CO2 will not "explode", but the sudden boiling of the liquid is EXTREMELY endothermic and potentially violent just the same. Admittedly, I was potentially negligent in transporting the tank sitting on the passenger seat, but even secured this tank would have vented due to overfilling. Raising the temperature of the tank (such as in a hot car) will result in a similar effect, especially if the tank is at or near the "full" level of liquid/gas volume.
Again, I will point out that this reaction occurred with a 4oz tank, basically the smallest refillable tank you can buy. (I have smaller custom tanks for my smallest robots, but that's another thing). If the venting CO2 liquid/gas mix had sprayed onto exposed skin, tissue damage was a real possibility. If the gas volume had been higher, or if the tank had taken longer to "empty", I might not have been able to vent the gasses from the cabin in a safe way. If the relative humidity had been higher that day, I might have created an even thicker "fog" which could have further obscured visibility while driving down the road.
In summary, I am now much more careful when transporting CO2. Whenever possible I leave my small tanks empty until I arrive and I would NEVER carry a refill station or other large volume of CO2 within the passenger compartment of a vehicle. Also, I haven't checked the MSDS on liquid CO2 lately, but I'm pretty sure when I last leased a CO2 refill tank, I had to sign a "training" document that basically said I promised only to transport the tank properly secured in an open-air vehicle, etc.
Back in my Battlebot days I used to have SMALL CO2 tanks filled at the local paintball place. (4oz, 8oz, and 20oz paintball-marker sized tanks).
On one occasion the counter-jockey overfilled a 4oz tank. Standard filling procedure for PB tanks is to partially fill then vent the tank to chill it so that it can be properly filled with a measured mass of liquid CO2 (leaving appropriate headspace for the gas-over-liquid volume at room temperature.) As I drove home from the PB store, the overfilled tank warmed back to ambient temperature while sitting on the passenger seat of my car and the safety burst disk blew.
Aside from the shock of the sound of a blown disc, the car was nearly INSTANTLY filled with condensed water vapor and CO2. Luckily I was on a straight, non-busy road and I have "auto-down" power windows, so I was able to quickly open all four windows in the vehicle and attempt to pull over and vent the "fog".
Later calculations showed that the C02 concentration might have been enough to cause harm, but I can certainly say that the more immediate danger was the sudden release of a cryogenic gas in an enclosed space.
CO2 will not "explode", but the sudden boiling of the liquid is EXTREMELY endothermic and potentially violent just the same. Admittedly, I was potentially negligent in transporting the tank sitting on the passenger seat, but even secured this tank would have vented due to overfilling. Raising the temperature of the tank (such as in a hot car) will result in a similar effect, especially if the tank is at or near the "full" level of liquid/gas volume.
Again, I will point out that this reaction occurred with a 4oz tank, basically the smallest refillable tank you can buy. (I have smaller custom tanks for my smallest robots, but that's another thing). If the venting CO2 liquid/gas mix had sprayed onto exposed skin, tissue damage was a real possibility. If the gas volume had been higher, or if the tank had taken longer to "empty", I might not have been able to vent the gasses from the cabin in a safe way. If the relative humidity had been higher that day, I might have created an even thicker "fog" which could have further obscured visibility while driving down the road.
In summary, I am now much more careful when transporting CO2. Whenever possible I leave my small tanks empty until I arrive and I would NEVER carry a refill station or other large volume of CO2 within the passenger compartment of a vehicle. Also, I haven't checked the MSDS on liquid CO2 lately, but I'm pretty sure when I last leased a CO2 refill tank, I had to sign a "training" document that basically said I promised only to transport the tank properly secured in an open-air vehicle, etc.