Suspension Comparison

[Root Moose]

I think with the V8 you don't need to re-gear unless you find you really need to later on. Deferred costs can be good. At altitude towing a trailer may be an issue.

I think the QDII is a fine system. While a real locker is perhaps better for the 0.01% of the time you really need a real locker the Jeep setup works the rest of the time. If it really bugs you then throw on a winch.

You aren't building a rock crawling machine (are you?). If you are rating features per feature I'd put the differences between TADs as a third order thing.

 

[Backwoods Rambler]

If you are rating features per feature I'd put the differences between TADs as a third order thing.

I'm not sure what that means....:snorkel:


No definitely not a rock crawler. If I decide to go that route again I will buy an older vehicle or keep, then upgrade, my current XJ, while using my next vehicle for mild camping & exploring. And yes, it will have a winch, as I think that is an important tool for any offroad vehicle, whether mild or wild.

 

[teotwaki]

If the Jeep QD system is similar to the 4Runner ATRAC and the Land Rover variants it definitely has limits. The main one is that for the double ABS sensors to get a good measure of wheel spin they have to se the wheels spin. A locker doesn't care. It is locked when you push the button. I used ATRAC for about 4 years until I felt I had reached the limits and then installed a rear locker.

 

[nwoods]

As far as gearing...... I think with the v8, both vehicles can handle the tire size I would consider without gearing changes. Maybe I'm wrong?? You tell me; I'd be looking at a 31"-32" size.

My buddy with the dark blue 4Runner has the V6 model, and went from the stock (31"?) tires up to approximately 34" tires without regearing. It still feels plenty peppy, and he regularly drives the upper range of highway speeds. He did loose a few MPG, he has all the details and I linked him to this thread. Hopefully he'll give you the straight info here soon.

 

[Photog]

With my V6 4Runner, I moved up from the factory 30.5" tire to a 32" tire. I lost 1 MPG, after correcting for the odometer.

For camping and exploring, you may never need more than the QDII or the ATRAC for traction control. You can add a locker to the 4Runner (ATRAC) system, without any negative effects. I don't know if a locker is available for the Jeep (should be available), and I don't know how a locker and the QDII would work together.

Look up the ground clearance of both vehicles in stock trim, then add in the available lift, to see what the lifted clearance is for both rigs. This may also help with your decision process.

-----Edit:-----
The factory 4R tire is 1" taller than the factory GC tire. This would be a 1/2" of ground clearance more for the GC, if it had the same tire as the 4R, bringing the GC to 8.8", on a 30.5" tall tire. In other words, if both vehicles had the same size tires, there is only 0.3" difference in ground clearance, in favor of the 4R.

GC Overland Model Stock ground clearance = 8.8"--Lifted 2.2" = 11.0"
4R Sport Model Stock ground clearance = 9.1"------Lifted 3" = 12.1"

Jeep GC - http://www.edmunds.com/used/2008/jeep/grandcherokee/100909640/specs.html
Toyota 4R - http://www.edmunds.com/used/2006/toyota/4runner/100614751/specs.html

One thing I did notice: The headroom in my 4Runner feels tight, with a hat on. The Jeep GC has 2" less head room (very tight).

 

[cbradley]

My buddy with the dark blue 4Runner has the V6 model, and went from the stock (31"?) tires up to approximately 34" tires without regearing. It still feels plenty peppy, and he regularly drives the upper range of highway speeds. He did loose a few MPG, he has all the details and I linked him to this thread. Hopefully he'll give you the straight info here soon.

I'm the guy with the blue V6 4Runner. The OEM tires are about 30.5" (265/65/17). I have about 33" (285/70/17) tires on mine right now. Nathan is correct that the stock gearing does pretty well with the larger tires. It has lost some of it's pep from a stop, but does fine at freeway speeds. I may regear as an adjustment, but I don't think it is necessary.

I used to get about 18.5 mpg and am down to about 16.5 with the much heavier 285 tires. I plan to go to 255/85/17 KM2s the next time around and expect to get a little boost in mileage.

From what I understand, the V8 gets nearly the same mileage as the V6, especially when you are running lifted and on larger tires. The 4.7L V8 2UZ-FE is a highly regarded engine they used on several of the Lexus models, as well as the Land Cruiser as well as in the Tundra and Sequoia.

There are quite a few options for the 4Runner suspension:

ARB
Standard Nitro Shocks http://www.arbusa.com/Products/Suspension-Systems/Nitrocharger-Shock-Absorbers/31.aspx
The standard ARB setup is relatively inexpensive, and seems to be pretty good, though I don't know many people using them.

Nitro Sport Shocks http://www.arbusa.com/Products/Suspension-Systems/Nitrocharger-Sport-Shock-Absorbers/128.aspx
ARB has the "sport" ones out either now or soon, and annecdotally they sound pretty good for the price.

Icon
Stage 1 (and others)http://www.iconvehicledynamics.org/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23_40_79&products_id=181
These are what I have, and I have been really happy with them. They have resi models available, but that is probably overkill for what our group typically does.

Camburg
2.5" Coilovershttp://www.camburg.com/?p=472
Camburg has a suspension setup that is similiar, both in design and cost to the Icons. I don't have any personal experience with them, but they seem to be well regarded.

Overland Warehouse
Full Suspension Kithttp://stores.overlandwarehouse.com/-strse-15/Suspension-kit/Detail.bok
These are relatively new, but have been well received by the 4Runner community. They are slightly more expensive than the basic Icon and Camburg setups, but not extraordinarily so.

Both King and Fox also have suspensions available, but they are more geared to mid and long-travel setups.

You can read about any of these in more depth over on Toyota120.com.

I am really biased, but I don't think you can go wrong with the 4Runner. There seem to be much greater options for building it up relative to the GC as well.

 

[JCMatthews]

Wait

Yes to both

The 2005+ Grand Cherokee is when they went to the IFS just like the Commander. The lifts available are 2-3" with spacers basically or the Super Lift 4.5" lift that AEV (American Expedition Vehicles) helped design.

 

[JCMatthews]

I don't know if a locker is available for the Jeep (should be available), and I don't know how a locker and the QDII would work together.
[/QUOTE]

I talked to the AEV Guys out of Montana at the EJS in Moab the year they were testing the GC. They were running what is not the Super Lift 4.5" lift. They had locker in the Jeep, and had run it on trails all week long. They said that the QDII worked so well they had not even used the lockers. So there are lockers available, but you don't need them. My brother has the Commander and the ETC works so well that most of the time you would not need lockers.

 

[winkosmosis]

Do the halfshafts really angle upward on a stock 4Runner? Did they really lower it that much vs previous generations??

 

[winkosmosis]

nwoods, shouldn't the front track be much wider with the Total Chaos arms?

 

[Backwoods Rambler]

Well, I just took pictures of a stock 4th gen 4Runner (SR5-v8) a stock 3rd gen GC (Loredo-v8) & a stock 3rd gen 4Runner (SR5-v6).

I'm not sure how well the phone pics will tell the tale, but the 4th gen 4R does angle up, as does the 3rd gen GC, although not as much as the 4th gen 4R. The 3rd gen 4R angles down about the same amount as the 3rd gen GC angles up.

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I tried to upload the pics, but was getting dabase errors??? :snorkel:

 

[winkosmosis]

You can upload your pics to http://imageshack.us

 

[Amauri]

A bit off topic but I think the WK is better looking

 

[Backwoods Rambler]

I think they're both equally good looking

 

[Backwoods Rambler]

I talked to the AEV Guys..... They had locker in the Jeep, and had run it on trails all week long. They said that the QDII worked so well they had not even used the lockers.

The QDII system works in conjunction with the ELSD's in the axles, so I'm having trouble understanding how it could be so good without the ELSD, that they didn't use the locker???

My brother has the Commander and the ETC works so well that most of the time you would not need lockers.

I can believe that. I don't even need LSD's most of the time :elkgrin: