Dodge to (finally) offer diesel in 1500 series trucks ?

[haven]

Allpar.com is reporting that the electronic system that Dodge dealers use to place orders for new light trucks now includes an entry for a diesel engine. It's the 5.0L V8 designed by Cummins before the auto industry meltdown. The 5.0L would be available in the 1500 series trucks. The Cummins 6.7L diesel will continue to be optional in the 2500 and 3500 trucks.

It would be great to see the Power Wagon available with the 5.0L diesel!

The 5.0L diesel V8 produces about 500 ft-lbs of torque. Cummins also has a 4.0L V6 version of the same engine design that produces about 400 ft-lbs of torque. The V6 would be a nice fit under the hood of the Wrangler.

Another interesting point is that Cummins developed the 5.0L diesel with full awareness of coming emissions standards. So it's possible that the 5.0L will run better (and cleaner) than the older diesel designs do.

There were lots of rumors flying in 2009 when Pickuptrucks.com noticed that an underhood sticker on a Dodge diesel was marked, "5.0L/6.7L." No new diesel was introduced back then, and it's possible that the current rumor will also prove to be false.

Here's a link to the Allpar page
http://www.allpar.com/news/index.php/2010/12/system-shows-ram-1500-diesel-hybrid

 

[Metcalf]

Regular cab, long box, 5.0 diesel, maunual trans, powerwagon package......PLEASE!

 

[BIGdaddy]

Regular cab, long box, 5.0 diesel, maunual trans, powerwagon package......PLEASE!

Crew cab, short box, 5.0L oilburner, manual trans, powerwagon package next for me. (need seats for 3 kiddo's )

 

[Regcabguy]

Yeah!

I've got a friend who formally worked at Cal Cummins Pacific in El Cajon,Ca. He had the fortune to drive a 5.0 V-8 Cummins equipped Dodge 1500. He was taken aback at the performance and quiet, clean operation of this prototype. This was several years ago. Poor access to the components was the only criticism he mentioned,a condition that has plagued GM and Ford diesel equipped vehicles since day one. Cummins is indeed developing new internal technology that will enable them to backdown some of the choking downstream emissions. Could be the dawn of a new age. Gobs of quiet,clean power and excellent fuel economy. Sign me up.

 

[kjp1969]

Crew cab, short box, 5.0L oilburner, manual trans, powerwagon package next for me. (need seats for 3 kiddo's )

Yes, please.

 

[JeffRRC]

Crew cab, short box, 5.0L oilburner, manual trans, powerwagon package next for me. (need seats for 3 kiddo's )

X2! Please let this be true!!!:wings:

 

[Maximus Ram]

Crew cab, short box, 5.0L oilburner, manual trans, powerwagon package next for me. (need seats for 3 kiddo's )

Spot on there....:wings:

 

[lstzephyr]

Regular cab, long box, 5.0 diesel, maunual trans, powerwagon package......PLEASE!

Regular cab, short box, for me. I'd want electric lockers and a manual too. I would actually prefer a straight 4-5 instead though. I think the v8s are too jammed in. I mean 250 hp, and 400ish tq is fine.

I've been day dreaming about an old w150 with a 4bt lately.

 

[Larry]

I don’t see this becoming a reality anytime soon. The only way a smaller diesel might be successful in a ½ ton truck is if it is priced within a couple thousand dollars or less of the gas powertrain and even that drives different corporate profitability issues. Sure, there are some diesel enthusiasts out there that claim they would buy one right now but the reality is, if they saw the diesel package price they would be reluctant to open their check book. GM has done extensive market research, which is why the 4.5L V8 Duramax went into a holding pattern, Ford did the same and pulled the plug on the Navistar 4.5L V6 diesel destine for the F150 back in 2006 and why Chrysler has held off on this small Cummins project. Heck, Mahindra can’t even get out of the gate.

One big obstacle for manufacturer’s using outsourced small diesel engines face is the fact they loose profit on engines they don’t build in-house. In the case of the 1500 series Ram, Chrysler would lose margins on eroded sales of their in-house gas engines to Cummins if they priced the small Cummins attractively enough where they would actually sell well. They would have to price them where they are profitable for Chrysler but then run the risk of weak sales where the entire project and integration wouldn’t be profitable. That is where the industry is stuck right now. They are greedy and there isn't any money in these small diesels for them.

I don’t see any of these small diesel projects getting off the ground until the economy gets much stronger, the US dollar gets stronger which will drive gasoline prices up or until the manufacturers find themselves in a CAFE situation where they sell the diesels as lose leaders to bring up their CAFE numbers. The problem with the second is today’s diesels do not deliver the great fuel economy they did just a few years ago, so CAFE may not even help with the diesel argument. Not only that but the US method of fuel refining and cracking is more geared towards gasoline where if gas prices go up…..diesel will go up at a potential higher rate.

I work for a diesel engine manufacturer and personally would not own any 2007 emissions compliant diesel engine(especially a 2010 compliant engine) including my own company’s engines. You don’t have to be crazy to purchase a new diesel powered vehicle but it would help. The way the regulations, fuel prices, lower fuel economy, lower durability/dependability, higher engine complexity are at the moment, there is no value in purchasing a new diesel vehicle when a gas engine is optional (unless you are towing at full GCWR 75% of the time). Look at UPS where dependability and MPG mean everything to them, they have purchased more gas delivery vans in the past 5 years than diesels.

Stick an old Cummins 5.9L in a Suburban and you’ll be all set for your diesel Expo dream rig. There is no value in purchasing a new diesel rig anymore, but that is just my opinion.

 

[1leglance]

Hey Larry,
thanks for giving us the cold hard truth about the diesel future in the USA.
I know when I look at the Aussie options and things aval outside the US I tend to forget about the emissions and profit margins that drive all of this....as much as it hurts thanks for the reality check.

Knowing what you do, you mention a 5.9L Cummins in a Suburban as an ideal...could you give some year ranges for each and what you think the cost & mileage would be? I think it would provide a nice comparison.

 

[LimaMikeMike]

I don’t see this becoming a reality anytime soon. The only way a smaller diesel might be successful in a ½ ton truck is if it is priced within a couple thousand dollars or less of the gas powertrain and even that drives different corporate profitability issues. Sure, there are some diesel enthusiasts out there that claim they would buy one right now but the reality is, if they saw the diesel package price they would be reluctant to open their check book. GM has done extensive market research, which is why the 4.5L V8 Duramax went into a holding pattern, Ford did the same and pulled the plug on the Navistar 4.5L V6 diesel destine for the F150 back in 2006 and why Chrysler has held off on this small Cummins project. Heck, Mahindra can’t even get out of the gate.

One big obstacle for manufacturer’s using outsourced small diesel engines face is the fact they loose profit on engines they don’t build in-house. In the case of the 1500 series Ram, Chrysler would lose margins on eroded sales of their in-house gas engines to Cummins if they priced the small Cummins attractively enough where they would actually sell well. They would have to price them where they are profitable for Chrysler but then run the risk of weak sales where the entire project and integration wouldn’t be profitable. That is where the industry is stuck right now. They are greedy and there isn't any money in these small diesels for them.

I don’t see any of these small diesel projects getting off the ground until the economy gets much stronger, the US dollar gets stronger which will drive gasoline prices up or until the manufacturers find themselves in a CAFE situation where they sell the diesels as lose leaders to bring up their CAFE numbers. The problem with the second is today’s diesels do not deliver the great fuel economy they did just a few years ago, so CAFE may not even help with the diesel argument. Not only that but the US method of fuel refining and cracking is more geared towards gasoline where if gas prices go up…..diesel will go up at a potential higher rate.

I work for a diesel engine manufacturer and personally would not own any 2007 emissions compliant diesel engine(especially a 2010 compliant engine) including my own company’s engines. You don’t have to be crazy to purchase a new diesel powered vehicle but it would help. The way the regulations, fuel prices, lower fuel economy, lower durability/dependability, higher engine complexity are at the moment, there is no value in purchasing a new diesel vehicle when a gas engine is optional (unless you are towing at full GCWR 75% of the time). Look at UPS where dependability and MPG mean everything to them, they have purchased more gas delivery vans in the past 5 years than diesels.

Stick an old Cummins 5.9L in a Suburban and you’ll be all set for your diesel Expo dream rig. There is no value in purchasing a new diesel rig anymore, but that is just my opinion.

You make some excellent points. Personally I think that direct injected gassers will be the wave of the future. So much so that I think next year an ecoboost F150 FX4 might be in my future.

But an man can have dreams...efficient Diesel PW and ecoboost Raptor in 2012?

 

[alexrex20]

i'll keep my Chevy gasser. it's fun imagining the quizzical looks on peoples faces as i pull away hard from the light with a 36ft enclosed trailer... and they do NOT see huge plumes of black smoke. gotta love a (modded) BBC 496.

i wonder what's the driving force behind a diesel option in a 1500-series pickup truck.

 

[Larry]

Knowing what you do, you mention a 5.9L Cummins in a Suburban as an ideal...could you give some year ranges for each and what you think the cost & mileage would be? I think it would provide a nice comparison.

Lance,

The best year of a Cummins and mileages they are getting would probably be best left up to the guys that really know Cummins engines and have done such swaps. There are quite a few threads here where a few members have done the Cummins swap into a Suburban.

As far as the best year of Suburban, depends what you like and how much you want to spend. A pre-1992 Suburban already has a solid front axle and tons of aftermarket support for suspension components, etc. The GMT400 Suburban’s from 1992 to 1999 would be my choice as it has a much stronger frame and more modern amenities plus nice clean Suburban’s of this body style are plentiful. The downside (for me anyway) would be they have IFS, but can easily be converted to SFA. A 1995-1999 Suburban with a SFA conversion, NV4500 5-speed and 2001ish 5.9L would be my choice of a project.

 

[Metcalf]

I would give serious thought to swapping in a 4BT cummins instead of the 6BT. You can get PLENTY of power out of them, they are lighter, shorter front to back, and seem to get 20+ easily. Some people report mileage in the low 30s.

I would love to do a 73-79 F150 shortbed 4x4 with a 4bt. Keep the stock np435, np205, D44 front, and 9" rear. Keep the gearing the stock 3.54s and bolt on some 37s under no-lift with lots of artful trimming. The gearing would be pretty dang good for the diesel then, even without the overdrive.

94-98 P-pump engines are my favorite....the 91.5-93 rotary pump engines are just as good under 300hp.

 

[Greggk]

i'll take a 4 door long bed 5.0 cummins powerwagon please.. oh yeah make it Dark Green too