235 85's on a DII?

[dcarr1971]

How do you like the tire on the Rover rims? I would want to use the factory rims. Did you have a lot of troubles with those tires before the lift?

No problems at all...they had plenty of clearance for general driving and even light off-roading. I did end up stuffing one up in the rear wheel well once while sliding backwards down a trail when I hung the rear diff up on a rock, but that was something I'd rate as being beyond what many folks encounter. If you're going to spend much time off-road, I'd get the lift ASAP, but you can generally drive around on these tires without any problems.

 

[Funrover]

When mounting a 235/85/16 to a stock D2 alloy, you will find that the rim it'self will be more exposed to damage. The best way that I can explain it that the rim and the sidewall will almost be on the same plane. Very little protection compared to a 265/75/16.

Good point, while this is a concern the wifes rig is not used to often on the rough trails so that will not be a major issue. However I do want to keep the rims presentable and will also look into the 265's. With the 265 being wider was there a lot more rubbing on corners and while flexed?

No problems at all...they had plenty of clearance for general driving and even light off-roading. I did end up stuffing one up in the rear wheel well once while sliding backwards down a trail when I hung the rear diff up on a rock, but that was something I'd rate as being beyond what many folks encounter. If you're going to spend much time off-road, I'd get the lift ASAP, but you can generally drive around on these tires without any problems.

Glad to hear that. I am looking at this as a possibility right now. Currently we have the 18" rims. I want to get those out from under the rig and get the 16". I am looking into a lift, no more than a 2" but want to check on what affects is has on the ACE system.

 

[dstuder]

Good point, while this is a concern the wifes rig is not used to often on the rough trails so that will not be a major issue. However I do want to keep the rims presentable and will also look into the 265's. With the 265 being wider was there a lot more rubbing on corners and while flexed?

I have a standard OME lift and have never had a problem. You may have to adjust the steering stops slightly though.

 

[Red90]

huh...explain that

Tire clearance to the vehicle is controlled by the amount of possible compression travel. Compression travel is limited by the bumpstops. Putting longer springs on should not affect the amount of compression travel and thus not affect tire clearance. If the springs DO prevent compression travel, then the spring lift is improperly designed.

If you want to reduce compression travel and cause an effect on tire clearance, you need to install longer bumpstops. You should never allow the spring or shock to limit compression travel.

 

[dcarr1971]

Tire clearance to the vehicle is controlled by the amount of possible compression travel. Compression travel is limited by the bumpstops. Putting longer springs on should not affect the amount of compression travel and thus not affect tire clearance. If the springs DO prevent compression travel, then the spring lift is improperly designed.

If you want to reduce compression travel and cause an effect on tire clearance, you need to install longer bumpstops. You should never allow the spring or shock to limit compression travel.

OK. This would only apply at max compression. How much time do your springs spend 100% compressed? Answer: Very little...even when off-roading. Your argument may sound valid on paper, but in practice it still isn't relevant 99% of the time.

 

[mongosd2]

this **** kills me, there are several components needed to do a lift properly, but your statement is why to "literal"...A longer spring will compress LESS than a stock spring, while using it a limiting factor isn't as bad using a shock, a compressed 3" spring is still longer than stock. Stock bumpstops will let a stock spring fully compress, don't believe me, measure it. Yes you do need to add longer bumstops, but to make a general statement that a longer spring do not allow a larger tire is wrong.


I have said in every post about lifts that using a spring or shock as limiting factor is wrong...

 

[Red90]

Most "normal" spring lifts that people buy are intended to be used with all stock components including bumpstops. They should still have a collapsed length short enough to allow the axle to hit the bumpstops. It is HARDER to get them to collapse and static loads are usually not enough. However, a good dynamic load will come along and let the axle hit the stops. This results in the high lift springs not affecting tire clearance.

Now, if a lift spring is sold that collapses fully before the bumpstops are hit, then the vendor should be telling the buyer that longer bumpstops are required.

 

[mongosd2]

huh...what is a normal lift spring? If a 2" spring is used as an example, it will not compress enough to utilize the stock bumpstop when fully compressed. And most vendors do recommend longer bumpstops

whatever

 

[Fivespddisco]

Most "normal" spring lifts that people buy are intended to be used with all stock components including bumpstops.

This is my OPINION but I dont think manufacture take the bump stops into consideration. After market manufactures do not guaranty springs for large amounts of time and I am betting they do not worry about the spring failing after it has been fully collapsed because most people never do it.

They should still have a collapsed length short enough to allow the axle to hit the bumpstops.

I dont think this is possible with the wire size need to support a Rover

 

[Red90]

I dont think this is possible with the wire size need to support a Rover

Stock rear spring ride length is let's say 11" with 3" BS clearance.

OME 762, very popular spring. 9.5 coils at 18 mm bar. Top and bottom ground so 8.5 * 18 mm gives 6". Compressible length 11 - 6 = 5" Certainly space to hit the stops even in full articulation.

Any properly design "spring lift" will not allow the spring to collapse.

If it does require bumpstops, then it is not "just" a "spring lift". It is a "suspension lift". Really any lift over 2" requires a large variety of changes beyond springs (shocks, shock mounts, bumpstops, brake lines, driveshafts, castor correction, trailing arms....) and you are into what I call a full suspension lift.

 

[Fivespddisco]

Stock rear spring ride length is let's say 11"

Ill have to look at a truck we have and get some measurements

Any properly design "spring lift" will not allow the spring to collapse.

Agree

If it does require bumpstops, then it is not "just" a "spring lift". It is a "suspension lift". Really any lift over 2" requires a large variety of changes beyond springs (shocks, shock mounts, bumpstops, brake lines, driveshafts, castor correction, trailing arms....) and you are into what I call a full suspension lift.

I also agree with that statement but in the real world most people just put on springs and shocks when it comes to Land Rovers. After that 2in mark on D1,RRc and D90s ( 3in on D2 ) is when you see people changing the other parts you have listed.

 

[mongosd2]

collapse or fully compress? Because that what your talking about, when a spring reaches full compression...please explain the difference

 

[Red90]

Ill have to look at a truck we have and get some
I also agree with that statement but in the real world most people just put on springs and shocks when it comes to Land Rovers.

I know... What I'm getting at is that if a vendor sells springs that can not work with the stock bumpstops, or that lift enough to require other mods, they should be making it clear that these other mods are needed and not just dump springs that won't work stock on the unknowledgable customer.

collapse or fully compress? Because that what your talking about, when a spring reaches full compression...please explain the difference

By collapse, I mean the point where all the coils are touching. It should hit the stops before this happens. If it does collapse before hitting the stops, the spring is poorly designed, unless the spring manufacturer is telling you that longer bumps are required.

What confuses people is that with most lift springs, You can not compress enough in articulate statically to hit the bumps. So the owner goes out, articulates it fully, looks sees lots of tire clearance and figures all is well. The problem is that there is still a gap to the bump stops. At some point, there will be a big enough dynamic load to force the spring enough to get the axle to hit the bumpstops and it may be at that point that the rubbing occurs. So, this is why people "think" that lift springs increase clearance when in reality the clearance is the same.

 

[mongosd2]

No the clearance is not same...a longer spring increases down travel and at full compression (which it should never reach) is still longer than a stock spring.

 

[Red90]

OMG, I give up. You will never understand. Try reading what I've written.