Survival Sack: When things go bad...

Scott Brady

Founder
I am working on revising my ditch bag with a few new items and removing some items I have found less useful.

One new item I am really impressed with is the Yaesu VX-8GR 2M/70CM radio with built-in GPS.

VX-8GR_1.jpg


I have found that I rarely carry a GPS much anymore, as I try to stay proficient with map and compass and find that I am more observant and remember places better when I am not relying on a GPS screen. But I still like to be able to make notes and record locations of unique finds, intersections or campsites.

This radio is sweet for that and serves a dual purpose.
 

Chazz Layne

Administrator
I have the first version of that (the VX-8R), great radio with surprisingly excellent reception for it's tiny size. Even if you don't use the APRS features it is worth it just for the small size and light weight, long lasting li-ion batteries.
 

Scott Brady

Founder
David,

I have brought a Sat phone on all of our major trips, but have just not found a reason to use it. Cell phone coverage is becoming so prolific now that my iPhone works in most places. We have used a BGAN unit quite a few times for data and to get schematics for repairs, etc.
 

NuggetHoarder

Adventurer
Add 10 1/10 ounce Gold American Eagles - that's a total of one ounce of gold - current value today is a little over $1,500. The 1/10 ounce size coins are about the size of a US Dime. Tuck 10 of these away in your ditch bag and you'll have some real emergency money. Hide it well - sew it into the lining of the bag or something similar.

While it's a good idea to carry some cash in your ditch bag, and maybe even some coins in case you have to use a pay phone - it's an even better idea to carry some gold due to it's compactness and the fact that it will work in any country. Gold is the ultimate currency and will enable you to buy your way out of a myriad of bad circumstances.

By the way, United States Air Force and Navy pilots carry British Gold Sovereigns in the survival kit in their vest.
 

teotwaki

Excelsior!
Add 10 1/10 ounce Gold American Eagles - that's a total of one ounce of gold - current value today is a little over $1,500. The 1/10 ounce size coins are about the size of a US Dime. Tuck 10 of these away in your ditch bag and you'll have some real emergency money. Hide it well - sew it into the lining of the bag or something similar.

While it's a good idea to carry some cash in your ditch bag, and maybe even some coins in case you have to use a pay phone - it's an even better idea to carry some gold due to it's compactness and the fact that it will work in any country. Gold is the ultimate currency and will enable you to buy your way out of a myriad of bad circumstances.

By the way, United States Air Force and Navy pilots carry British Gold Sovereigns in the survival kit in their vest.

Are the gold coins practical in the lower 48? Carrying some cash is a good idea but $1500 is a lot to have lying around in a ditch bag unless the Zombie Apocalypse is coming.. :ar15: Kidding aside, the coins might be practical in a number of foreign countries. Because of theft problems I'd hesitate to sew all of them into just the bag. Maybe split them up into a coat, hat and the bag?

In the US it might be that $300 and a credit card might be good enough.
 

NuggetHoarder

Adventurer
Because of theft problems I'd hesitate to sew all of them into just the bag. Maybe split them up into a coat, hat and the bag?

In the US it might be that $300 and a credit card might be good enough.

$300 is chump change nowadays. A tow off of the trail by itself might cost over $1,000, and the person towing may not take credit cards, even in the US.

Regarding theft, it's much easier to conceal 10 dime size objects than it is to hide $1,500 in cash. Splitting them between your bag and other items makes sense, but only if you're sure that they get grabbed at the same time as your ditch bag. If you're in a grab and go situation - like your rig is about to be swept down a river - you may only have time to grab one bag. Plus most of us are carrying tens of thousands worth of gear in our rigs and another $1,500 hidden away is hardly a game changer.

Yes, the credit card is a must have, but if you are building a ditch bag, then you're trying to cover more contingencies then aren't you? Gold is the ultimate currency and you can exchange it for cash readily, even in small US towns. Another factor is that gold tends to reassert it's dominance every 20 to 30 years and we're about 10 years into that cycle. Gold is likely to become more widely recognized and more acceptable over the next 10 years as this cycle repeats.

I realize this isn't for everyone, but if you are making a comprehensive bag, then cash (and cash equivalents like gold) should be considered as essential.
 

kjp1969

Explorer
Yes, the credit card is a must have, but if you are building a ditch bag, then you're trying to cover more contingencies then aren't you? Gold is the ultimate currency and you can exchange it for cash readily, even in small US towns. Another factor is that gold tends to reassert it's dominance every 20 to 30 years and we're about 10 years into that cycle. Gold is likely to become more widely recognized and more acceptable over the next 10 years as this cycle repeats.

A ditch bag is designed around a forseeable emergency like a vehicle fire. How exactly would you use gold coins following such an emergency? I understand that you could find a gold exchange place that could verify authenticity and buy them from you, but how would gold coins be better than greenbacks at the side of the road while you're dealing with a tow truck driver? Or trying to pay for medical services or a hotel?
 

NuggetHoarder

Adventurer
A ditch bag is designed around a forseeable emergency like a vehicle fire. How exactly would you use gold coins following such an emergency? I understand that you could find a gold exchange place that could verify authenticity and buy them from you, but how would gold coins be better than greenbacks at the side of the road while you're dealing with a tow truck driver? Or trying to pay for medical services or a hotel?

Obviously, cash is king, however, if you are carrying a large amount of cash, you are likely to dip into it from time to time. That's just human nature. If you have gold, you'll leave it alone. If you're comfortable carrying a large amount of cash, then go for it. I usually carry several hundred dollars while on the trail, but I also have some gold tucked away just in case I get into something really bad. Using your vehicle fire as an example... Let's say you don't get your bag out in time.. gold is still gold, even if it's melted into a blob while burned up cash will be ashes.

I constantly hear people talk about the lack of convertibility of gold so you are not alone in being a skeptic. As an avid prospector and long time owner of gold I can tell you that the recognition of gold is increasing every day and continues to increase. Gold is money, and it can be readily converted into cash or used for barter. Gold is a far better barter item than say, a Rolex watch or a nice Camera. It might take a day to convert your gold into cash if you can't barter it, but that's the worst case scenario.
 

teotwaki

Excelsior!
Obviously, cash is king, however, if you are carrying a large amount of cash, you are likely to dip into it from time to time. That's just human nature. If you have gold, you'll leave it alone. If you're comfortable carrying a large amount of cash, then go for it. I usually carry several hundred dollars while on the trail, but I also have some gold tucked away just in case I get into something really bad. Using your vehicle fire as an example... Let's say you don't get your bag out in time.. gold is still gold, even if it's melted into a blob while burned up cash will be ashes.

I constantly hear people talk about the lack of convertibility of gold so you are not alone in being a skeptic. As an avid prospector and long time owner of gold I can tell you that the recognition of gold is increasing every day and continues to increase. Gold is money, and it can be readily converted into cash or used for barter. Gold is a far better barter item than say, a Rolex watch or a nice Camera. It might take a day to convert your gold into cash if you can't barter it, but that's the worst case scenario.

I thought the thread was about survival sacks for offroading incidents but now it sounds as if we crossed over into Bug Out Bags. :elkgrin:
 

kjp1969

Explorer
Obviously, cash is king, however, if you are carrying a large amount of cash, you are likely to dip into it from time to time. That's just human nature. If you have gold, you'll leave it alone. If you're comfortable carrying a large amount of cash, then go for it. I usually carry several hundred dollars while on the trail, but I also have some gold tucked away just in case I get into something really bad. Using your vehicle fire as an example... Let's say you don't get your bag out in time.. gold is still gold, even if it's melted into a blob while burned up cash will be ashes.

I constantly hear people talk about the lack of convertibility of gold so you are not alone in being a skeptic. As an avid prospector and long time owner of gold I can tell you that the recognition of gold is increasing every day and continues to increase. Gold is money, and it can be readily converted into cash or used for barter. Gold is a far better barter item than say, a Rolex watch or a nice Camera. It might take a day to convert your gold into cash if you can't barter it, but that's the worst case scenario.

So you have my attention: How exactly would you pay someone in gold? Or readily convert it to cash? Is it really better some how than cash itself? How would you convince someone who is not an enthusiast like yourself that your coins were legit? If you went to a pawnshop or jewelry shop with one ounce of gold, would they give you the actual trading price of gold on that particular day, or would they give you some portion?
 

NuggetHoarder

Adventurer
So you have my attention: How exactly would you pay someone in gold? Or readily convert it to cash? Is it really better some how than cash itself? How would you convince someone who is not an enthusiast like yourself that your coins were legit? If you went to a pawnshop or jewelry shop with one ounce of gold, would they give you the actual trading price of gold on that particular day, or would they give you some portion?

The first thing to consider is that gold has gone up in price every year for the last 11 years. Since the start of this year, gold has already risen 8% and as long as paper currencies continue to depreciate in value, gold will continue it's upward trend. Gold will not continue it's uptrend forever, however, it looks likely that it will continue to appreciate in value against paper currencies for the next several years, if not the rest of this decade, at least.

The second thing to consider is that it does cost money to produce the coins, and dealers must make some profit, so there will always be a premium over the spot price when you buy a coin. Spot prices that you see on financial websites are the prices for very large certified bars that are sold on large exchanges. Buying in small quantities, like most goods, will cost a bit more. This means you will be taking a hit on the day you buy it, but after a few months, that premium you paid will vanish.

Currently, the spot price for an ounce of gold is $1,546.50. (A year ago it was $1,250). There will be approximately a 4 to 5% premium to buy a one ounce coin from a dealer. The 1/10 ounce coins that I like to carry have a higher premium of around 15 to 20%, however, I like the ability to barter or sell in smaller amounts and the premium is worth it to me. When you attempt to sell them, you will likely receive the spot price or the spot price plus 2 to 3% over spot if selling to a coin shop, jewelry store, pawn shop, commercial smelter, or prospecting supply store.

Internationally, gold has much more recognition than it does in the United States and will be easier to sell. The form of coin you choose will have some importance. If your primary travels will be in Mexico, for instance, then you will be better off carrying Mexican Libertads. In the former British colonies, the British Sovereigns would be more appropriate.

If you are trying to barter your coin with someone who doesn't know it's value, then one option you have is to say to that person: "Here's a half ounce of gold. This is worth at least $x amount dollars. You hold on to this and help tow me out of here, and you and I can go together to a gold shop to make sure you get your cash".

The reason that gold is better to carry than cash? Consider that a roll of gold coins, the size of a roll of dimes, is currently valued at over $7,500 and can be readily converted into that amount of cash within 24 hours or less anywhere in the United States or Canada. That's a lot of money packed into a small space. Gold is also waterproof and fireproof (not completely fireproof, but much more so than paper money) and gold can be easily hidden because of it's compactness. It's also an appreciating asset. Instead of carrying cash that is losing value, you'll be carrying money that is increasing in value. I believe you should still carry some cash, but I feel really safe knowing that I have ready access to enough money to replace an entire engine in some far flung small town if needed, irregardless of whether I have cash or credit cards.

A final note of advice... don't buy from dealers on TV. They charge 40 to 50% premiums and will dog you forever with spam email, phone calls, etc. trying to get you to constantly trade into some other product to increase their sales volume. Either find a local coin shop to work with, or use one of the larger online gold dealers that consistently have low premiums like apmex.com or gainesvillecoins.com or providentmetals.com Personally, I like dealing with a local vendor, and if you are a complete novice, a local coin dealer is your best resource on learning more about your investment.
 

teotwaki

Excelsior!
1. Shelter (and shelter construction materials: cord, zip ties, tarp, etc.)
2. Food (rotate it every few months)
3. Water (solar still and other collection items and water purification items: -know how to use them-)
4. Communications (Cell or Sat phone, printed list of phone numbers, also items in "signaling")
5. Warmth (including 3 means to start fires, clothes to handle the environment)
6. Emergency Care (take a wilderness first aid class too)
7. Navigation (take a land navigation class, have suitable compass and paper maps for the area)
8. Basic Survival Equipment (adjust for the environment, includes navigation, signaling, etc.)
9. Signaling (including flares, smoke, mirror, laser pointer, cell, etc.)
10. Critical Documents (make a color copy of both sides of credit cards & ID)
11. Coin of the realm (in a format suitable for the area including items for barter)
12. Tools (multitool, knife, Firearm/ammo with local laws taken into consideration)
13. Footwear (if you are not already wearing something appropriate)
 

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