My Taco Phoenix Pop Up Camper

[Keyne]

"if anyone reads this thread they would be nuts to buy a Phoenix."


As Runt , I own a Phoenix for 2 years and very happy with his strength , tightness and its quality made ​​to measure .
But this, I said in a previous post .
We consider a second camp with Phoenix on a new PU.
Unfortunately , due to personal problems , the trip to the states and the order will be canceled this year.

This thread is an exchange of a few people who voluntarily trigger suspission ,In order to denigrate a competitor manufacturer.

Ok ,

I'm a nuts and a nuts future ...

You are very very heavy ... and disrespectful to future buyers ..
It is easy to dismiss a builder on a Forum readable by all.And there is no moderation on this thread.


The Phoenix Campers owners are treated of nuts and prospective buyers are afraid to buy crap....
This is the message you want to convey?

I Followed with interest a new thread."New review new build with Phoenix Pop up"

This innovative project of flatbed was technically very interesting .I live in France,where there are many achievements,for several years.I wanted to show the French making(of old continent) in order to exchange ideas.
Very Quickly , a spirit of suspission appeared in many answers .
Before we can judge the progress of the work , the future owner has been suspected and manufacturer denigrated.
Terra Ops may be preferred to delate his thread ,due to negative judgements.
I hope that he will make a new thread to monitor its project.


This is very unfortunate for the spirit of sharing a forum,

Wasp I hear what you are saying and I appreciate your point of view. Most importantly I am pleased that you appear to be happy with your Phoenix purchase. I remember reading the post on this forum about your camper and the owners traveling to France to deliver it to you (we sooo want the Hilux here in the states). However, after reading this thread I am very disappointed with how this particular transaction appears to have transpired. For example, Facebook posts mentioning "renovation" when the owner was returning a virtually new camper to be fixed. It calls into question many of the posts that I have read from Phoenix (on this forum and elsewhere). Maybe this is just one misperception or rare occurrence but it does cause for pause and further investigation if one is in the market.

Maybe some or most Phoenix owners are happy, however in this instance I think it is obvious that at least one customer is not. As a prospective buyer I appreciate this information along with other information available (eg resale value, customer reviews,site visits) to make an informed decision. Maybe I will buy a custom Phoenix or some other product but at least this informations can help me decide.

Maybe I am misunderstanding your post but it appears that you are concerned that an unmoderated forum is biased and bashing competitor/company products... My experience with the expo forum has been one of respectful, polite, healthy debate fueled by the desire to share information for people trying to buy products that meet or exceed their expectations as they work hard to fulfill their expedition dreams. I personally do not only see no harm in that dialogue, but also I appreciate that the community is willing to openly share their experiences to benefit others. Would you prefer that these discussions be moderated and controversial posts removed if they highlight issues?

By the way, an example of what I am talking about regarding sharing of information... Have you seen the post here about the Jeep Earthroamer or the GXV with the body mount failure? If you read the posts you will see the kind of dialogue I am talking about. Mike bought a very expensive (much more than a Phoenix by 2 to 3x) and basically did a gut redesign highlighting the design flaws of the original. Now if one were in the market for a used earthroamer jk or even a new Earthroamer... One might pause. However I personally appreciate this kind of dialogue to make an informed decision. The GXV example was good also and highlighted in the end how well Gxv handled the issue. All great info IMO.

Link to earthroamer jk thread

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/51254-EarthRoamer-XV-JP-quot-Northwest-Edition-quot

 

[Kowboy]

You are ... disrespectful to future buyers ..

I believe the opposite. Future buyers should be respectfully aware of potential issues with the product. In fact, the OP even stated he wished he'd of known more about the product prior to his purchase.

... and prospective buyers are afraid to buy crap....

Prospective buyers should be aware there might be quality control issues with the product. They can then weigh this into their decision process of which product to purchase.

This is very unfortunate for the spirit of sharing a forum,

There's many examples on this forum of Folks heraldin' quality products and quality service. There's also examples of Folks havin' issuses with products as well. That's the spirit of the forum. A sharin' of opinions. Not all of 'em are good. That's the way of the world.

Carry on.

 

[Terra Ops]

There are a lot of good points in the last couple posts of this thread. What I think everyone who reads and or participates in this type of forum should consider the following; The implied and perceived meaning of the written word. The state of mind when an individual posts an opinion. How much value if any do we really want to give to an anonymous opinion? You would think that communication is a simple thing, but in fact it is probably the root of the world's problems.
These posts have the potential to be constructive or destructive. I would hope that people reading this particular post understand we are only hearing a one sided story. We have no way of knowing what type of perceived communication actually took place between the buyer and seller. I do believe by airing your dirty laundry in a public forum, it has the potential of working against you. I have spoken with Rob at Phoenix about this particular incident. Without going into detail I can say it truly depresses him and has cost him some business. I can't say that I blame him or anyone else for not wanting to bend over further after its already been publicly stuck to you. This thread is like a cancer that keeps feeding on itself.
I had a similar experience with my RV. I was not happy with the problems I had after spending over 100K. However, I chose to work it out with the manufacturer. Did it go smooth? No. But I was satisfied with the final result and would recommend them to those that are interested.
After pulling my build thread I wasn't sure if I would repost. I think people want to share with others that are of kindred spirits. After reading Wasp's comments from France, it reminded me of how far reaching ideas can be. "Merci Wasp"
So, this is just my opinion and I'm sure there will be more to follow. I do plan to repost my build in the near future and hopefully avoid the drama and BS.

 

[brian90744]

Maybe, you don't get it, The customer is still NOT happy with the quality of the second try.

From the customer= "Had my first weekend out with the TC since the "upgrades." Final lesson learned: don't let Phoenix do the painting. New painter or not, I spent hours taking paint off off locks and switches. Can believe the new painter didn't think to tape those up... To make matters worse, the over spray is on the awning canvas. Finally as I was washing her up I noticed that the paint was put over old bug guts on the top front. I knew that it wasn't sanded down, but not even cleaned??

Again, ok custom builder but attention to detail is lacking". I guess this is both sides.


Maybe Phoenix should refund the cost of the paint job, It may make the customer taste a little better. Per the customer="As I indicated in my previous post, I opted for the $1500 custom paint upgrade"

brian

 

[MYTACO]

So yesterday Phoenix posted a story about a couple who bought a camper and drove it through South America. The couple raved about how well it held up over the 18 month--even though their truck didn't. Someone commented on the blog indicating that they were jealous because their camper leaks.

Not surprisingly the comment has been deleted. I'm not the only one who has had quality problems. I think prospective customers have a right and need to know.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Keyne]

I wonder if these people would have been pleased to read this thread before purchasing a Phoenix popup camper? It sounds like Phoenix is very helpful with resolving issues but it sounds like there is inconsistency in the quality control (which could be hard with custom designs). However, I think threads like these are useful so buyers go into their purchase with eyes open, and someone may buy a Phoenix camper but know they should tightly manage the process to ensure they get what they want.


http://nelisbigadventure.com/bliss-island/

 

[Frosty_1]

What's more ironic is that Phoenix used to actively post photos in their own thread...now that these issues have popped up, they are nowhere to be found...

 

[bob91yj]

I'm not a shrink or anything but I think it's getting to the point where MYTACO needs to just get out and use his camper, and be happy about the things that do work as designed. The longer this thread drags out the more pi$$ed I get about the whole situation and I'm not even involved. I commend MYTACO for being as calm as he's been about the whole situation.

I'm really bummed about this whole situation because I had Phoenix at the top of my list to build me a custom camper. I almost pulled the trigger a year or so ago. I'm beginning to think that I'm glad I didn't. Fortunately for me I already have a set up that meets my needs, I just wanted to improve on what I have (and get rid of the roof air for a window rattler). I love the AC it provides when I need it, terrified that I'm going to find it laying in the middle of the floor after going down some of the dirt roads I travel.

I use my truck/camper for a chase vehicle for the Baja 500/1000 and the upcoming NORRA Mexican 1000. There are times when I'm hammering it down a dirt road to get to the next pit on the race course before the race vehicle does. So far, my wood framed camper has held up to the abuse I put it through. I too failed to research before buying. I started doing some research after the purchase, and was assured by the 'net experts that my wood frame camper would be toothpicks/firewood in short order. I was a little bummed with what I'd done...turns out everything works well enough to meet our needs.

Sadly, MYTACO presented us with his side of a quality control concern. Phoenix failed to respond to any of the allegations here, although I feel sure they have at least been aware of this thread, and my guess would be they've read it. They did post the fixes on their Facebook page, it was presented as an update to a camper rather than as a we goofed and this is what we are doing to have a satisfied customer.

MYTACO, you have a cool rig, and a dream to do some travelling. Tighten your belt a notch, be happy with what you have, and hit the road brother.

 

[Keyne]

I'm not a shrink or anything but I think it's getting to the point where MYTACO needs to just get out and use his camper, and be happy about the things that do work as designed. The longer this thread drags out the more pi$$ed I get about the whole situation and I'm not even involved. I commend MYTACO for being as calm as he's been about the whole situation.

I'm really bummed about this whole situation because I had Phoenix at the top of my list to build me a custom camper. I almost pulled the trigger a year or so ago. I'm beginning to think that I'm glad I didn't. Fortunately for me I already have a set up that meets my needs, I just wanted to improve on what I have (and get rid of the roof air for a window rattler). I love the AC it provides when I need it, terrified that I'm going to find it laying in the middle of the floor after going down some of the dirt roads I travel.

I use my truck/camper for a chase vehicle for the Baja 500/1000 and the upcoming NORRA Mexican 1000. There are times when I'm hammering it down a dirt road to get to the next pit on the race course before the race vehicle does. So far, my wood framed camper has held up to the abuse I put it through. I too failed to research before buying. I started doing some research after the purchase, and was assured by the 'net experts that my wood frame camper would be toothpicks/firewood in short order. I was a little bummed with what I'd done...turns out everything works well enough to meet our needs.

Sadly, MYTACO presented us with his side of a quality control concern. Phoenix failed to respond to any of the allegations here, although I feel sure they have at least been aware of this thread, and my guess would be they've read it. They did post the fixes on their Facebook page, it was presented as an update to a camper rather than as a we goofed and this is what we are doing to have a satisfied customer.

MYTACO, you have a cool rig, and a dream to do some travelling. Tighten your belt a notch, be happy with what you have, and hit the road brother.

Well done. Honestly, IMO this feels like a perfect ending to this thread. Taco enjoy the camper.

 

[Super Doody]

I wonder if these people would have been pleased to read this thread before purchasing a Phoenix popup camper? It sounds like Phoenix is very helpful with resolving issues but it sounds like there is inconsistency in the quality control (which could be hard with custom designs). However, I think threads like these are useful so buyers go into their purchase with eyes open, and someone may buy a Phoenix camper but know they should tightly manage the process to ensure they get what they want.


http://nelisbigadventure.com/bliss-island/

I feel bad for this couple. I can't imagine having to deal with these issues while on the road in another country.

 

[craig333]

Unreal. I've had water leakage in my FWC but only because I hit something and didn't reseal it promptly. I had a hard side camper that leaked badly but it was thirty years old.

 

[Victoria Palmer]

I feel bad for this couple. I can't imagine having to deal with these issues while on the road in another country.

I wish this thread had existed before we sunk half our trip budget into the Phoenix. We have had nothing but problems with water leaking, and like the original poster commented, not a tiny amount rather it was a deluge inside our camper every time it rained.

Phoenix was quick to downplay our situation and remind us that once we drove off the lot the Phoenix was our responsibility. We went with the Phoenix primarily because of the amazing reviews, specifically the couple that Phoenix just blogged about who traveled to South America. We were planning a similar trip but are now unsure of what to do. Currently in Nicaragua, we THINK we have fixed the leaks but we will find out as soon as it rains again.

Today we will be addressing the countertop that came off of our pantry. It was just glued on and after all the water leaks the top has warped and the glue has come unstuck. Phoenix told us we probably hit the countertop with our shoulder...

I was surprised that they were in such a state of denial after all our water problems. For a company that prides itself on customer service, and clearly makes a quality product SOMETIMES, we would have expected that they recognize this was a seriously defective camper. I would have expected some sort of refund in good faith but all we received was advice to buy products that are not available in Mexico and Central America and a lot of blame pointed in our direction.

We have worked tirelessly resealing the roof, the sides where the tent meets the camper, and the windows. Fingers crossed...

In summary, if I could go back in time, I would not buy a new Phoenix. The price was amazingly high but we thought it was worth it for a brand new camper. We have friends with a used Northstar who have had no issues at all and Northstar hooked them up when they visited them on the US leg of their trip. Phoenix has done nothing for us, we are really shocked and saddened by there behavior and how they have treated us. They were blogging about us but it appears they have removed all signs of us from their website, interestingly they still use our photos without our permission when they want to show a Phoenix in a remote location.

 

[IdaSHO]

Unreal. I've had water leakage in my FWC but only because I hit something and didn't reseal it promptly. I had a hard side camper that leaked badly but it was thirty years old.

My 43 year old hardside camper doesnt even leak. And its a POS.

A leak in a new camper is 100% unacceptable. PERIOD.

 

[boojum]

Thanks for the informative writeup of your experience with Phoenix. Wow, is about all I can say. I have a FWC I bought used 17 yrs ago, I think it was only about 3 yrs old when I got it and it has served me well. It doesn't have some of the nicer options available on later model popups, but I have what's essential-- propane fridge, stove, sink, dual roof vents one of which is the Fantastic vent. I installed a backup battery for camper power wired to battery isolator for charging only when truck is running and to a small solar panel when camping. Use a Thetford porta potti when needed. Most of my time is spent down in Baja and condensation certainly occurs on the vinyl siding, but since it pretty dry down there its not a big issue and the color of my siding originally was the brown mustard and is now gray since I had it replaced recently so staining is not real evident, but I have never noticed any roof leaks and I have been in some pretty heavy rains related to hurricane conditions. In addition, I have done some snow camping and the condensation is significantly more noticeable. I definitely open it up and let it dry out well when I get back home and I believe they recommend opening things up periodically anyway. Another area I notice condensation is under/on the bed foam mattress, especially on the section that overhangs the truck cab since that has more exposure to ambient temperatures. I just pull the mattresses out every few days and dry them out for a few hours.

My only major repair came when part of the floor near the back door buckled due to some dry rot and also bent the frame around the door. Since it needed to be repaired I also decided to have the vinyl siding replaced since there were some small holes and the screens had seen better days. I called FWC and they wouldn't give me much of an estimate on the floor, expected that since who knew how bad it was, but they also wouldn't give me a good estimate on the siding which I thought was odd. After talking to the guys at All Terrain, got a good estimate for siding and reasonable estimate on the floor and bent frame. Drove up, left camper there for a few weeks, went back to pick it up and things looked and worked great. They also peeled back the aluminum skin on front and back and repaired some broken welds in the frame. Was very impressed with ATC and looked at some of their ongoing custom builds, and would definitely consider them for my next popup.

Overall have been very happy with my FWC and even though it's not real fancy and has a basic spartan like feel to it, it's quite comfortable and has definitely held up to the abuse I've put it through all these years.

 

[dustin_mud]

Sucks to read this stuff about Phoenix, they built my camper for the jeep and haven't had any issues. The jeeps camper is very primitive compared to these, not sure if that's something to do with it?