My Taco Phoenix Pop Up Camper

[Frosty_1]

"Hello every one
I have been looking at purchasing a pop up camper.Until now, My choice has been between FWC and Phoenix Campers. I have read a lot of interesting information on many forums ..
I found the thread of Mytacco and also others on this and other forums....I met owners of these two manufacturers, have had many emails exchange and phone calls.Everyone has their own opinion, which should be based on serious and thorough investigation/research on all companies.I'm still going through information distilled in the Forums.You can find everything from the best and the worst of all companies.But I must build my own personal opinion,away from friendship or business that may exist on the Forums ..
Finally, This is my opinion based on what I have researched and my approach.

Objectively, perfection does not exist.
All brands have all known issues:I have read on this Forum, that the only occasional issues of FWC's some folks have had is some frame weld cracks around the door/windows.I don't know if they were a bad weld from the factory or others issues ....Roof leaks are also reported on All of the pop up campers FWC, ATC, Phoenix, Nothstar, Outfitter, Halmark, Palamino etc. (and even non popup campers)
Like me, you see that the perfection does't exist.For a over a year, I have met happy and unhappy FWC owners.

After and over that same time period ,I have meet and had exchanges with several owners of Phoenix Camper.
What I learned from the Phoenix owners is that they are impressed and happy with the campers light weight, durability and custom aspects.
I have chosen Phoenix over the other manufacturers as I have found the owners of Phoenix Campers much easier to work with, and they build everything custom to suit the customers needs. More, I was not willing to accept the standard antique aluminum siding of the FWC . or pay the extra for the "Smooth Fiberglass Exterior Siding". What I like most is that my camper design should evolve to my taste,
Another reason I went with the custom Phoenix pop-up over the ATC or FWC because I could get extra insulation, higher output furnace and other custom features that I wanted for winter camping. For the pop-up section Phoenix can offer a 4 layer liner upon asking for it (2 layers of thinsulate knock off sandwiched between 2 layers of fabric, while ATC/FWC offered 3 layer pack that has to be put up and taken down as needed and then stored somewhere.
Phoenix also comes with a slightly higher cab over and as a result there is nice under the bed storage or I can choose to get it with lower profile like ATC/FWC.
Phoenix Camper's are all custom, no production line .
While I understand the injury felt by Mytacco,I do not agree with the method used by him by including private mails between him and the manufacturer.
It looks to me that the company (Phoenix) did more than any other company has done or would have done.

Currently, the only remaining problem is its quality of painting.
But, the responsibiliy of the manufacturer can't be questioned.
I am going to paint my future camper.The paint on the camper will be different from that of my pickup. I know it's difficult and almost impossible to get the same paint to match, especially with pearlescent paints.
On my old land 130, I had to repaint the one side that needed repainting (right side) 3 times.The result is not perfect. I did not trial the dealer over the internet.
This is not how I do my business, but directly between myself and the dealer, where we came to an amicably deal.

This negative thread does not change my choice to go with Phoenix, If anything knowing how they care about their customers and have shown great customer service shows what a good company they are to work with.
Through my writing, I just want to show that everyone must do their own "good critical thinking" and do his/her own research and go with what feels right to them. Keep an open mind and remember some people will never be please..I don't want to develop any controversy or off topic conversation .

I am not active in the forums, for this reason.
I am a man loving communication and direct contact with the humans and just putting my 2 cents out there .
I hope that all who read my opinion understand my approach and choose to do their own research beyond what they read on these forms.

best regards
John

This post smells fishy...

 

[MYTACO]

Cannonball I wish you the best of luck. Judging from your post I suspect that you don't have your Phoenix yet. Let us know how it turns out. I truly hope you don't have leaks. As far as the paint, good point...but understand all I was told by Rob was, "yes, we can do it." No qualifiers about paint matching and certainly no indication that he would sub the job to a half-a@$ painter.

Wasp-- I have tried it in both positions. Up and down and get the same result. If you recall, the initial thread involved leak issues up front. The current leak issues are now in the back and along the sides (where I had no problems before). Given the Locations I do not see how the condensation theory applies in my TC. I suspect that Rob know my camper leaked upfront when I went back for my "upgrades." As such have focused up there when he replaced the liner. What he SHOULD have done was
Focused on the entire liner. In fact I would say he didn't even need to replace the liner. All I have ever sought was to stop the darn leaks.

I was warned that I would get beaten up on this forum for noting these problems. I have tried to be very fair. I know there are two sides to every story a and appreciate that. Still I find it ironic that you don't see
Phoenix in this forum--but
Rather just a few who have had a good experience. Don't know about you, but looking back I was told that they produce about 20-25 per year. I have count five happy customers and several more than that as unhappy. The risk is definitely there--and in my
Case, I was not informed of those
risks and potential issues. Rather, I relied on Rob and Cari and was only told, "don't worry, we've been doing this for years" completely dismissing my
Concerns and requests. Not once did he tell me was hard to match paint. Not once did he explain the likely discoloration of the liner. When I did ask, it was turned around to imply that I must have caused the problem.

In reality I suspect that their attention was on their Bronco Bronco that was being built at the same time. However after even riding in that, it was apparent that they didn't focus on quality even on their own TC. As someone said, they look nice from 50 yards, but the issue is in the details. My camper looks awesome from a distance--but come inside and look at the stained liner and crappy paint job... I could point to other small issues, but like it was pointed out, there is no perfection. I am not seeking 100% perfection but a TC should not have water stains after receiving a mere 1/2 inch of rain.

So feel free to beat up on me more. I am standing by my posts and only hope that it makes the next Phoenix buyer a little smarter about their purchase.



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[MYTACO]

This post smells fishy...

You think? Has only been a member of the forum since 4/4/14. I see another sucker...reminds me of me
In November 2012.


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[Runt]

Hi Mytaco,

Can I suggest putting a couple garden hoses or a sprinkler on the top of the camper and hanging out in it reading a book to see where or if it's leaking? Finding leaks in a roof can be tough and very frustrating.
I had similar discoloration(not as dark) on my first camper from two of us sleeping in the camper at – 40 Celsius and my forget full self not wiping the camper down DOOH!…..not saying your is from this. Cooking and boiling water with furnace blasting and lots of wet field gear makes for lots of moisture lol. It was a Friday and we booked it back to civilization without wiping it all down and I forgot to pop the top and soak up the moisture build up on Saturday morning....but did not look as dark as your stains. Good news is it cleans up pretty well with a mild CLR solution and a bit of elbow grease and some shop vacuum suction. Again not saying yours is condensation stains but if they are the method above a good wipe down in future or an electric heater left in it with a vent just cracked overnight really helps dry things out.
Far as the paint it looks good from just looking at the vehicle…..some paint thinner might remove a lot of that over spray.

Tacoma and camper look good!

 

[craig333]

Condensation has certainly never given me those kinds of results and I store my camper (its a daily driver, not much choice) top down and no ventilation and never experience these kind of problems.

"I am not active in the forums". I don't pay much attention to people that make one post and go away. I do hope they have better luck with their Phoenix Camper.

 

[bob91yj]

Perception is reality...no way to prove it, but it sure seems like another feeble attempt at damage control.

 

[Super Doody]

MYTACO, I appreciate your thread and your attempt to educate others. Yes, you can move on with all the issues but its the principle of the issue. You paid with your hard earned cash for something that they agreed to and did not deliver on. A non-leaking camper and clean-er paint job (not perfect color matching) are basic and reasonable expectations for a brand new camper. Yes, there may not be perfection in any of the campers from any manufacture because they are built by human hands but I can almost guarantee that if FWC or ATC sold a brand camper to a customer that started to leak, the issue would've been resolved immediately.

If they had issues with executing your plan, they shouldn't have agreed to doing it. The take away is just because someone agrees to do custom work, don't mean it will be done right.

This is true example of "custom":

http://www.hollowsurfboards.com/MikesEarthroamerJeep.htm

Instead of throwing up smoke screens and letting things get even more out of control, Phoenix should do everything in their power to address the main issues. How hard is it to track a leak and fix it? You would expect more from a company that has been building campers since the 80's. The saying goes "You're only as good as your last mistake"

 

[genasea]

Plus one for MyTaco documenting and explaining the issues with his camper. For others that state placing this info on a public forum is, or does, a disservice, you should really take a hard look at why you feel the need to marginalize this gentlemans experience to somehow feel better about yourself. I also own a small business, and have done so for 20 years, and I am at a total loss for explaining why the manufacturer would not bend over backwards to fix (not help, not try, not attempt, but actually fix) the issues found in this camper.

And for those who state this is a one sided thread (meaning from MyTaco), please correct me if I am wrong, but the last I checked ANYONE with an email address can sign up and post on this forum and in this thread. In case I lost you on that point, this means the manufacturer can also join and make posts. It is one sided because the other side of this transaction has decided to remain mum. That is their decision, and this decision will manifest itself in ways they probably cannot imagine. The internet allows the free flowing of communication. It makes good companies better, and has the opposite affect on others.

MyTaco - Thank you for your service, thank you for documenting this process, you have my empathy for your issues with this camper, and I wish you all the best in your future outdoor and camping adventures.

 

[docdave]

Ditto. My Taco shared his build excitement, his disappointments, his quest for solutions and finally, the results of that quest. I'd have thought that there would have been a more successful redress of grievances, and frankly, I expected a better response. By the same token, I don't know My Taco, beyond what I've read here, so I don't know how likely he was to be satisfied. I'm also not all that surprised that Rob and Cari haven't responded here. That's probably a recipe for a potentially ugly series of exchanges, rather, a direct effort to correct the problems would be both more appropriate and more productive. Looks like they may have fallen short. I've visited their operation, and feel that it fills a niche in the industry largely unaddressed by the other manufacturers. I fear that they may have become a victim of their own success. I felt that they produced a good product, although some of the more elegant production methods used by their competitors are beyond practicality in their relatively low volume operation. I hope that they successfully get it all together. This has been an informative and interesting thread.

 

[18seeds]

"Hello every one
I have been looking at purchasing a pop up camper.Until now, My choice has been between FWC and Phoenix Campers. I have read a lot of interesting information on many forums ..
I found the thread of Mytacco and also others on this and other forums....I met owners of these two manufacturers, have had many emails exchange and phone calls.Everyone has their own opinion, which should be based on serious and thorough investigation/research on all companies.I'm still going through information distilled in the Forums.You can find everything from the best and the worst of all companies.But I must build my own personal opinion,away from friendship or business that may exist on the Forums ..
Finally, This is my opinion based on what I have researched and my approach.

Objectively, perfection does not exist.
All brands have all known issues:I have read on this Forum, that the only occasional issues of FWC's some folks have had is some frame weld cracks around the door/windows.I don't know if they were a bad weld from the factory or others issues ....Roof leaks are also reported on All of the pop up campers FWC, ATC, Phoenix, Nothstar, Outfitter, Halmark, Palamino etc. (and even non popup campers)
Like me, you see that the perfection does't exist.For a over a year, I have met happy and unhappy FWC owners.

After and over that same time period ,I have meet and had exchanges with several owners of Phoenix Camper.
What I learned from the Phoenix owners is that they are impressed and happy with the campers light weight, durability and custom aspects.
I have chosen Phoenix over the other manufacturers as I have found the owners of Phoenix Campers much easier to work with, and they build everything custom to suit the customers needs. More, I was not willing to accept the standard antique aluminum siding of the FWC . or pay the extra for the "Smooth Fiberglass Exterior Siding". What I like most is that my camper design should evolve to my taste,
Another reason I went with the custom Phoenix pop-up over the ATC or FWC because I could get extra insulation, higher output furnace and other custom features that I wanted for winter camping. For the pop-up section Phoenix can offer a 4 layer liner upon asking for it (2 layers of thinsulate knock off sandwiched between 2 layers of fabric, while ATC/FWC offered 3 layer pack that has to be put up and taken down as needed and then stored somewhere.
Phoenix also comes with a slightly higher cab over and as a result there is nice under the bed storage or I can choose to get it with lower profile like ATC/FWC.
Phoenix Camper's are all custom, no production line .
While I understand the injury felt by Mytacco,I do not agree with the method used by him by including private mails between him and the manufacturer.
It looks to me that the company (Phoenix) did more than any other company has done or would have done.

Currently, the only remaining problem is its quality of painting.
But, the responsibiliy of the manufacturer can't be questioned.
I am going to paint my future camper.The paint on the camper will be different from that of my pickup. I know it's difficult and almost impossible to get the same paint to match, especially with pearlescent paints.
On my old land 130, I had to repaint the one side that needed repainting (right side) 3 times.The result is not perfect. I did not trial the dealer over the internet.
This is not how I do my business, but directly between myself and the dealer, where we came to an amicably deal.

This negative thread does not change my choice to go with Phoenix, If anything knowing how they care about their customers and have shown great customer service shows what a good company they are to work with.
Through my writing, I just want to show that everyone must do their own "good critical thinking" and do his/her own research and go with what feels right to them. Keep an open mind and remember some people will never be please..I don't want to develop any controversy or off topic conversation .

I am not active in the forums, for this reason.
I am a man loving communication and direct contact with the humans and just putting my 2 cents out there .
I hope that all who read my opinion understand my approach and choose to do their own research beyond what they read on these forms.

best regards
John

Hi Rob, Are you still posting your campers on craigslist under different names?

 

[MYTACO]

18seeds, did he seriously do that? The writing from Cannonball and the Wasp sound almost identical...so it wouldn't surprise me much.


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[bob91yj]

This story gets sadder every day.

 

[Super Doody]

Hi Rob, Are you still posting your campers on craigslist under different names?

Hope not. I wonder if Admins have access to IP information.

 

[Victoria Palmer]

Hey all! A good update on our end, Phoenix has agreed to a professional reseal (if we can find someone here in Central America) and also to replace the liner when we finally make it back to Colorado. Yaaaay! We will be out of the country for another year about so hoping to find someone down here who can do a re-seal for us soon!

MyTaco, your photos look exactly like the inside of our camper every time it rains! Did I read that you took it back for a re-seal or did you just have the liner replaced?

We're hoping to find a RV Service center down here in the next month before rainy season starts so if anyone has any leads on one, I'd be mighty grateful for the information as google and yellowpages has turned up nothing. Thanks in advance for any info that can help us!

 

[MYTACO]

Victoria, I definitely got the new liner, but do not believe they did a reseal. Rob indicated that he would do a leak check as part of the process, but I don't think that ever happened. To be honest, I don't think they believed me about the leak, and instead told me it was either due to condensation or my not storing it properly.

By chance did he say what kind of seal? I took mine to camping world for some guidance. Since it is a metal roof, the said to not put a rubber seal on it. To me, that would seem to be the easiest, although I guess it could peel. I've looked at some other stuff for aluminum roofs but forgot the name of it.


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