12v Cummins vs. 7.3 Power Stroke?

[redthies]

Jefe, I added the "rumour has it" to my post because before I found my 98, I was looking at a few 24v trucks. One had a 6 speed with a few shifting issues. The "experts" on Cumminsforum (not sure if they were wearing flatbills), suggested that parts are costly and hard to find.

That said, I once test drove a 24v / NV5600 truck that was seriously beat on, but super cheap. I think it was the nicest driving Cummins / trans combo I have tried. Don't know what gears were in it, but it had 35" tires. I would have bought the truck, but it had been used by a logging company on the Oregon coast, and the body and interior were beyond hope. (At the time I was ignorant about 53 blocks and lift pump issues, so probably best I didn't buy it). The fact that you have an aftermarket lift pump is probably the only reason your VP is still in good health. As you said, they need fuel to keep cool, and the heat is what kills the electronics in them.

If the right truck came along in 24v, I wouldn't shy away from it, but I would budget for a FASS or similar, and a new VP44 too, assuming there was no proof of any recent replacement.

 

[Magilla82]

I'm so happy i decided to ask the question lol. There is a metric **** ton of knowledge in this thread, and it has certainly helped me out and i appreciate all the information/knowledge that has been shared. Hearing about the 24v lift pump, and VP44... yeah i have to agree, if the right one came around I dont think i could shy away from it. It will be good to get back behind the wheel of a Dodge, and a turbo diesel :wings:

 

[redthies]

There is a metric **** ton of knowledge

I can't believe Deb is dead. She rocked!

 

[Mundo4x4Casa]

Red and Mag, good to hear from you. I'm of the old school, back when we had a 1980 I.H. Scout Traveller. 118" W.B. This was the last and only year the factory put a Nissan 3.3L I-6 turbo diesel into the truck. The engine weighed 950 pounds, and put out a neck snapping 101 H.P. It did get 20 mpg. The non turbo they put in the 78-79 Scout was @ 80 H.P. How's that for power to weight? With a 23:1 C.R. and mongo tq. down to 300 rpm, the thing would pull like crazy. T19 gearbox. Dana 300/texas pattern t.case. Other diesels we've had were:
1964 M.B. 180D. a charmer
1981 VW Dasher diesel wagon. was junk after 23 mo.
1983 Peugeot 505S, 5 spd. 2.3L turbo diesel. best car we've ever owned.
1980 Scout Traveller T.D. 4WD
1979 Cadillac 350 diesel. it had its ups and downs.
Our 2001.5 CTD (the .5 means it has upgraded disc brakes all around at mid year) is pretty low on power if you compare it to the newer engines: 245 HP and 505 pound ft. of TQ @ 1600 rpm. But it is enough. In 6th @ 55 mph, we are at 1600 RPM, right at peak torque. However, i find i can eek out the very best mpg/v. speed running at about 1850-1900 rpm, or about 63 mph. Unlike the newest Cummins this one has grunt all the way down.
A little more about transmissions: When i was a writer for Off-Road.com and ORN, my specialty was drivetrains for jeeps and trucks. So i did a lot of research. Here are the ratios for some hefty 5 and 6 speed manuals:
NV4500-GM '92-94: 6.34/3.44/1.71/1.00/0.73/???R This is the rare one. Stump puller 1st gear. It has the same 5th gear nut unscrew woe as the following;
NV4500-Chrysler and GM (1995 on) versions: 5.61/3.04/1.67/1.00/0.75/5.61R 25% O.D. Notice the big gap between 2nd and 3rd.
NV5600: Dodge only w/HO Cummins: 5.63/3.38/2.04/1.39/1.00/0.73/5.63R 27% O.D. It's a nice spread. 1st gear could be lower for me, but with the t-case i have 12 different gears forward on the truck. Honestly, i think it was dropped because the bean counters thought it was too heavy. and it is. This trans weighs more than a 1966 VW engine!
G56: 6.29/3.48/2.10/1.38/1.00/0,79/5.74R I like the lower low gear on this M.B. trannie. O.D. not as tall as the NV5600. There seem to be two sets of ratios for the G56: 5.94/3.28/1.98/1.39/1.00/0.74/5.42R
Clark 280VO (now the Eaton Fuller FS4205) 5.98/3.50/1.86/1.00/0.80/5.04R 20% O.D. 208 pounds, dry. I have one of these in my garage ready to go behind a Cummins. It came out of a 4WD 1979 Ford F600 dump with divorced T.case. 1-3/8", 10 spline stick out shaft. You must use a Ford clutch and T.O.



You can see the t.case lever still attached for the divorced NP205.
Spicer 305A 5.90/3.10/1.70/1.00/0.85/???R. This is the box that came with many earlier military 2-1/2 T. trucks.
ZF5:5.72/2.94/1.47/1.00/0.76/ A German aluminum case trans used by Ford from '88 on, and Dodge: '89-93.
ZF6: 5.79/3.31/2.10/1.31/1.00/0.72/ 28% O.D. The tallest in the biz. Another German aluminum case trans. used by Ford starting in 1999. This is the one behind the 7.3 on my bro's '99 F250 Super Duty.
And how about a slush box: Aisin AS68RC: 3.74/1.96/1.34/1.00/0.77/0.63/3.54R. Amazing to have two O.D. gears. Electronically controlled O.D. lockout, converter clutch synchronized in all gears.
I'm going to bed.
regards, as always, jefe

 

[goodtimes]

I've always liked the Dodges (and not really cared for the Fords), but the back seat in the 2nd gen Dodge shouldn't be considered a seat, more of a padded storage platform.

 

[Mundo4x4Casa]

Goodtimes,
I cannot disagree. The back seat in the Dodge is an, "as a last resort, short hop, personnel holding pen". Ours is completely removed on longer TC trips, like our 9K mile round trip to AK in 2003. But there are only two consenting adults here. It IS a great area for storage when removed. Seating for six? Maybe on paper, but you are right, who wants to sit on paper?
jefe

 

[goodtimes]

Seating for six? Maybe on paper, but you are right, who wants to sit on paper?
jefe

Probably anyone who is given the choice between sitting on paper & sitting in the back seat of my Dodge . . .

 

[Saiyan66]

Definitely don't rule out the 24v trucks. My family's business has had an 02 Dodge 3/4ton with the HO Cummins and NV5600 since new. It has been worked harder than any truck I have ever seen. Overloaded, abused off road, heavy towing, forklifts run into it, you name it. Still the best driving diesel motor and transmission ever. PERIOD. Yes the steering needed to be gone through at 150k, and the back seat is a cruel joke for an adult, but its still a great truck.

If I could go back in time and order any truck it would be one of those. Kids be darned! You and your wife get to sit in the front!

 

[incognito]

Hy
When buy used trucks the most important thing is care and maintenance of the previous owner(s)
All trucks manufacturers have issues but if you pick a well maintained non-abused truck it could give trouble free ownership, for some time.
buying an abused badly maintained truck could give new owner expensive repairs. Also it depends if the truck was used in commercial or private use.

since everything is very relative, one with mechanical skills and space and tools could be better with a 1000 $ truck( no rust) rebuilt completely, engine, transmission, brakes, Etc. my 2005 dodge 24v had rebuilt engine 110000 miles( 7000 $ at a diesel shop) , 120000 miles new rebuilt transmission 3000 $ at transmission shop. In Québec
I don't know about the 12v because i didn't own one due to lack of leg space for the rear seats, even for kids, but i can tell you what i've owned all bought used.
different trucks different issues:

2005 cummins 24v dually actual ride with a service box and a Bigfoot camper. nice ride ,quiet cabin, good reliable engine( until the injector failed and previous owner decided to rebuilt the engine) , rebuilt the transmission and steering box (700$) was leaking.wish i had an stereo aux-in and better front chairs.
from other forum 2003-2004 gets more mpg less one ignition event and 2006 has one more speed in the transmission. 2005-2006 are most powerful. wish had found a 2006, but i don't regret my choice.

4x4 duramax 2003 changed the 8 injectors and redone the transfer case 110 000 miles. powerful engine, very good automatic transmission, GREAT Bose stereo and front chairs ( SLT model). a bit more economical than my Dodge 24V on diesel.
both have one more rear leaf added in the rear.
7.3 f250 Ford 2000 4x4 more noise in the cabin when under throttle , but powerful solid truck all over.110000 mile changed the fuel pump and the glow plugs.
was used privately and never towed.also use synthetic oils all over from the beginning.

reliability depends how hard the truck worked, who owned it ,past maintenance and future maintenance .
mpg dually: 12v cummins i've read a thread and is economical on fuel but they also have other issues (brakes, fuel pump), then duramax , then 24v cummins and ford 7.3 . i would say is not a big difference when loaded . mpg depends a lot of tires, lift, srw or drw, gearing ,driver so hard to tell
drive all 3-4 models see which one suits your taste and needs better becouse you will drive it

good luck
incognito

 

[bloodyWEST]

to the OP; i was in the exact same position 2.5 years ago when i bought my 97 CTD.

as fair warning, i do wear flat billed hats:sombrero:

my budget was 8K and all the crew cab OBS diesels were outside my budget, and the cash was burning a whole in my pocket. i almost bought a 2002 f150 crewcab on 35s, thank God i did not.

I was a big cummins fan but they seemed to be outside my budget. a 1997 with 174k miles came up on Craigslist just 40 miles from me, advertised at $9000.
it was pretty clean, and the miles appeared to be mostly highway miles. i was told the auto trans was rebuilt, but the previous owner did not know when. i got it for $8300

all i have done is put a $1300 Gerend torque converter in it, and new tires, and it now has 198k. it has been amazingly reliable. it does need front brakes and wheel bearings, and i have been dragging my feet on it, because that is $4-700 i don't have right now.

BUT!!!
i have 2 kids, one 3 years and one 10 months.

i have been dreaming of a newer 4 door truck, but in reality, they fit fine.

the rear facing seat(for the first 12 months) has to go in the center, and my 3yr old sits behind my wife. leg room was becoming an issue, my daughter's feet were getting squished. at 2.5yrs she met the height/weight requirements for booster seat, which is much lower profile and gives much more leg room.

i did put a running board on the passengers side, to help in loading the kids, because you definitely have to "climb in" to buckle the middle seat. the 98's rear door would help to buckle a child on the side seat, but you would still have to climb up/in to buckle the middle seat.

yes this is all a bit of a hassle, but so are kids in general:snorkel:

we split driving between my truck and my wifes xj jeep cherokee, that is a 4 door, but its so small its actually more hassle getting the kids in than my truck.

there are a few two tone, beautiful, crew cab OBS truck in my neighborhood, and my wife covets them. i cant lie, i like them too.

but until we have a 3rd kid, or find ourselves swimming in money, we will stick with the dodge. and at that point(like you said), I will keep the dodge as "my" truck.

when we do this all over again, i doubt we will go diesel. I dream of a 2008-9 crewcab v10,

auto, 4.10 gears and 34' tires
i get about 14mpg around town
16/17 empty at 75-80mph
i have got over 18 with my (pop up) camper on, driving like an angel at 64mph

its hard to find info on car seat fitment, so if you have any questions, let me know

also, the dodge consoles make excellent diaper changing tables

 

[steelheadbum]

The Redneck Mexican
2002 E350 7.3 PSD 4x4 8inch lift pop top conversion....

 

[steelheadbum]

2003 7.3 Crew cab dually 6speed 4.10 gears "15,000" gvwr, 17mpg!! It would be all the truck you would ever need! Tear the axles off the dodge, if you want comfort buy a Cadillac....remember its a truck not a car.
Dodge is cute

Ford has more ground clearance stock, better brakes, bigger/stronger frame,my dads logging out fit ran them all in those days and I could have him talk your ears off on how many Dodges broke frames! Did I mention he's a Mopar man, he owns nothing but dodges but when it came to 3500 trucks he would recommend a 1998-2003 7.3 f350-450 hands down!
Buck


The Redneck Mexican
2002 E350 7.3 PSD 4x4 8inch lift pop top conversion....

 

[ChuckB]

BUT!!!
i have 2 kids, one 3 years and one 10 months.

i have been dreaming of a newer 4 door truck, but in reality, they fit fine.

the rear facing seat(for the first 12 months) has to go in the center, and my 3yr old sits behind my wife. leg room was becoming an issue, my daughter's feet were getting squished. at 2.5yrs she met the height/weight requirements for booster seat, which is much lower profile and gives much more leg room.

i did put a running board on the passengers side, to help in loading the kids, because you definitely have to "climb in" to buckle the middle seat. the 98's rear door would help to buckle a child on the side seat, but you would still have to climb up/in to buckle the middle seat.

yes this is all a bit of a hassle, but so are kids in general:snorkel:

we split driving between my truck and my wifes xj jeep cherokee, that is a 4 door, but its so small its actually more hassle getting the kids in than my truck.

there are a few two tone, beautiful, crew cab OBS truck in my neighborhood, and my wife covets them. i cant lie, i like them too.

but until we have a 3rd kid, or find ourselves swimming in money, we will stick with the dodge. and at that point(like you said), I will keep the dodge as "my" truck.

when we do this all over again, i doubt we will go diesel. I dream of a 2008-9 crewcab v10,

auto, 4.10 gears and 34' tires
i get about 14mpg around town
16/17 empty at 75-80mph
i have got over 18 with my (pop up) camper on, driving like an angel at 64mph

its hard to find info on car seat fitment, so if you have any questions, let me know

also, the dodge consoles make excellent diaper changing tables

I hope I'm not hijacking the thread… just a quick question based off the above info. I'm potentially looking at 3 kids in car seats (2-13 months, one infant), am I crazy to think this will work or be remotely comfortable in a 2nd gen dodge?

 

[Saiyan66]

ChuckB,

If you and your wife are both 5'1" then it wont be an issue. Otherwise you will probably want a much larger rear seat.

 

[redthies]

Infants and 13 month olds don't "need" a much larger seat. Teenagers might. The car seat thing might be an issue, can't say I've tried in mine. Maybe you should roll past a dealership that has a 2nd gen (even a 1500 2wd) and see if you all fit. I think you will have more issue fitting car/booster seats than you will fitting 8-12 year olds.