2004 Tahoe (Suspension Advice) OR buy another Vehicle
- Thread starter coolrunnings22
- Start date
XJLI
Adventurer
Direct replacement as an I can buy a 2007 lower control arm and bolt it into my 2005 with any modification? Because I feel like someone would have figured that out already if it were the case.
Overlandtowater
Well-known member
I thought I read somewhere that the gmt900 arms are narrower front to back than the 800 arms......if not that would be a easy swap.
4bytruckin
New member
I'm ripping the front end off my Tahoe and going Solid axle. Stock 52 inch springs will lift it 4" and will fit 35's with very little trimming and 37's with a bfh. ORD makes a kit for the OBS Tahoe for around $500 that bolts in. currently I just replaced the rear springs with custom made 1 inch lift springs and run a 3 inch block. Front has aftermarket keys and is maxxed out at 3.5 inches. Ball joints last a year and I need to improve the load capacity so SFA it is.
Martinjmpr
Wiffleball Batter
Seems like you've got a good plan but for a casual user like the OP though I think an SFA conversion is like using a sledgehammer to swat a fly.
I don't know if it was you or someone else on the forum here who said he was something like ~$10k into his SFA conversion.
4bytruckin
New member
Recently I have about $2500 just into the rear axle and rear suspension. The front will cost around $5k by the time I'm satisfied. Then there will be an engine swap/tranny swap and a host of other mods. But you pay for reliability. The torsion crank will lift but at the cost of ball joints and excess wear. Sure $10k in front end parts over time is easier to swallow than doing it right the first time. It always leads to heavier duty parts. then to a redesign, then to a full swap. Chasing the offraod dragon is a hell of a ride.
usanumber1
Member
Issues I see in torsion bar lifts is premature balljoint, CV, and general steering component failure. I hate the "GM ENGINEERS DESIGNED IT THAT WAY THEY KNOW BEST" argument just as much as the next guy, but modifying a torsion bar lift never performs like people think it should. You lose down travel, increased stress on CVs, etc.
usanumber1
Member
Buy once, cry once.
XJLI
Adventurer
When you modify anything, it becomes less reliable and breakage/wear is more common and faster. Torsion bar crank, diff drop kit, long travel, solid axle swap.... we all pay to play.
I'm surprised to see so many of yall telling OP to crank his torsion bars 3".
I cranked mine just enough to clear 285/70/17 tires, about 1.5 inches, and I definitely notice a difference in ride quality. Mine "floats" alot more than it used to. Cranking them 3" would make it even worse plus it would wear out parts at a greatly increased pace.
If you really need more lift that an inch or two, you should look into new upper control arms at a minimum and preferably a diff drop bracket, coilovers, plus new control arms. Or a solid front axle obviously.
I cranked mine just enough to clear 285/70/17 tires, about 1.5 inches, and I definitely notice a difference in ride quality. Mine "floats" alot more than it used to. Cranking them 3" would make it even worse plus it would wear out parts at a greatly increased pace.
If you really need more lift that an inch or two, you should look into new upper control arms at a minimum and preferably a diff drop bracket, coilovers, plus new control arms. Or a solid front axle obviously.
Last edited:
rayra
Expedition Leader
sorry USAnumber1, but given how miniscule the CV angle change is with ~1-2" of torsion bar crank, I'll chalk up any subsequent trouble more to the vehicles being ~15yrs+ old with well over 100kmi on them. That goes for CVs, wheel bearings / hubs, all of it. I've been posting about all the 'refresh' and tweaks for the GMT800s in my own build topic and my 'Hey Vortec Guys' topic for some time.
In fact just recently I was posting about the degradation of the torsion bar adjuster key crossmember mount bushings and the few options for repair or replacement. And how the system is designed with vertical range of motion / pitch in the torsion bars as the lowers move. And how a bit of crank on them does f-all to really change things as you are still operating the front suspension within the mechanical limits of the upper and lower control arm stops.
As long as you set things so it isn't riding on the stops, you retain much of the original ride. Ride only gets bad when you really crank them to the max and essentially lay the upper arm on the stop. And then you get a crappier 'lever arm' of movement on the lower, with it's steeper angle AND you get the crappy ride on the return bounce as the uppers hit their stops too soon.
So I wouldn't say one could get more than 2" out of a torsion adjustment change without wrecking the ride, with stock arms. And if your torsion bars are fatigued, you may not even have enough adjustment in a stock key to even get it up that high.
factory vs Rancho 'leveling' key. You can see the leveling key gives you about a 1/2" advantage on the adjuster bolt depth. So if you are starting with a really worn out ride and can't afford the $600+ for new torsion bars or the bother to pull some from a wreckign yard, the $40? for the keys is an easy short term fix. But you should really swap out or upgrade the torsion bars to do it properly.
eta
pgs37-40 in my Vortec topic, talking about the failure of the mount bushing and various ways to correct it or improve it and my first pass at doing so as a proof of concept. Most folks with GMT800s here probably don't even know this mount is failing on their vehicles. Won't know until it fails enough for the crossmember to rap against the frame mount, metal on metal.
I'm replacing my lower control arms next month, with fresh bushings and ball joints and probably crafting some shaved down polyurethane bushings for that above pictured mount. There's nothing wrong with the rubber I put in there, yet and I suspect not for a long time, the way I don't drive it hard off road. But I want to try re-working the polyurethane version of the same fix and maybe offer them to folks here that need a similar fix.
The "proper" way to fix that mount is cut the whole metal mount off the frame and weld on the new one with its apparently cast-in-place bushing & bolt sleeve. Or by a replacement mount and cut it apart to excise the bushing subassembly and try to press it into the original mount ring, on/under the vehicle. And you have to drill / grind out the old mount the same way I had to so I could insert my modded control arm -style bushings, anyway. A lot easier just to put in the control arm style inserts.
In fact just recently I was posting about the degradation of the torsion bar adjuster key crossmember mount bushings and the few options for repair or replacement. And how the system is designed with vertical range of motion / pitch in the torsion bars as the lowers move. And how a bit of crank on them does f-all to really change things as you are still operating the front suspension within the mechanical limits of the upper and lower control arm stops.
As long as you set things so it isn't riding on the stops, you retain much of the original ride. Ride only gets bad when you really crank them to the max and essentially lay the upper arm on the stop. And then you get a crappier 'lever arm' of movement on the lower, with it's steeper angle AND you get the crappy ride on the return bounce as the uppers hit their stops too soon.
So I wouldn't say one could get more than 2" out of a torsion adjustment change without wrecking the ride, with stock arms. And if your torsion bars are fatigued, you may not even have enough adjustment in a stock key to even get it up that high.
factory vs Rancho 'leveling' key. You can see the leveling key gives you about a 1/2" advantage on the adjuster bolt depth. So if you are starting with a really worn out ride and can't afford the $600+ for new torsion bars or the bother to pull some from a wreckign yard, the $40? for the keys is an easy short term fix. But you should really swap out or upgrade the torsion bars to do it properly.
eta
pgs37-40 in my Vortec topic, talking about the failure of the mount bushing and various ways to correct it or improve it and my first pass at doing so as a proof of concept. Most folks with GMT800s here probably don't even know this mount is failing on their vehicles. Won't know until it fails enough for the crossmember to rap against the frame mount, metal on metal.
I'm replacing my lower control arms next month, with fresh bushings and ball joints and probably crafting some shaved down polyurethane bushings for that above pictured mount. There's nothing wrong with the rubber I put in there, yet and I suspect not for a long time, the way I don't drive it hard off road. But I want to try re-working the polyurethane version of the same fix and maybe offer them to folks here that need a similar fix.
The "proper" way to fix that mount is cut the whole metal mount off the frame and weld on the new one with its apparently cast-in-place bushing & bolt sleeve. Or by a replacement mount and cut it apart to excise the bushing subassembly and try to press it into the original mount ring, on/under the vehicle. And you have to drill / grind out the old mount the same way I had to so I could insert my modded control arm -style bushings, anyway. A lot easier just to put in the control arm style inserts.
Last edited:
XJLI
Adventurer
You need to check your front end if a 1.5" crank makes your truck float. Were you sitting on the jounce stops before? Are you running OEM or OEM replacement shocks? What tire pressure? Did you get an alignment? With the torsion bar crank I did, it STIFFENED up the front end a little, the truck feels better. I'm running yellow Bilsteins, nothing special. 285/70/17s.
Like rayra mentioned, if you have a bunch of components with 150k on them, and now you change their resting position, all that rubber and ******** is NOT going to be happy. It isn't because the truck can't handle a small lift, its because all those joints were set to one spot for 15 years and now you moved them.
It's certainly possible that I'm misattributing the change to the lift. I wouldn't call the ride bad necessarily, but I think if I cranked it another inch or two it would be bad.
I'm not riding on the stops, I replaced the shocks at the same time time with bilstien 5100's made for "0-2 inch" lift and did have an alignment done. Running ~35psi in 285/70/17 falken wildpeaks.
Maybe something else is worn out and needs replacing. It's an 05' with 120k miles so that's certainly possible.
rayra
Expedition Leader
well I was mucking about with my torsion crossmember mounts and earlier replacement of a failed wheel bearing / hub (changed both), not finding any bad play in my balljoints but still experiencing a sort of shifting clunk - and thinking my control arms 'weren't bad' and while mucking about I noticed this - look how much slop was in those upper bushings, totally cock-eyed at max extension -
Enough wear to make them totally loose. That pic is with the vehicle jacked up by the frame, the suspension hanging totally loose / on the upper stop. That will give you a lot of 'float' and random motion, alone.
I've since changed the uppers and CVs and the lowers are next month. At that point I'll have replaced all the rubber in the front suspension and all the moving parts. Going down the highway it's pretty dang smooth and comfortable now, even without getting to the lowers yet.
These are heavy vehicles, getting long in the tooth. They need a lot of maintenance and wear-parts replacement before anything definitive can be said about them. Fortunately they are still in their 'prime' in terms of the repair market. Huge range of parts available, in all price ranges. But before anybody goes for a high dollar single subcomponent, I urge you to spend much less and freshen up all your old junk, 'baseline' the thing then see what you really need to improve.
And doing stuff like putting $300++ worth of shocks on it withOUT freshening all the suspension bushings etc isn't going to help much.
Go look at rockauto.com, you can pretty much change all your suspension wear components for the price of ONE supername off-road part. I suggest folks do that first. Or at least in conjuction with installing a premier offroad component.
I changed / freshened up all my steering stuff some time ago, too. New inner and outer tie rod ends, inner sleeves for reinforcement, new pitman and idler arms too. No more wandering down the road. All that was about $175 in parts iirc, mostly Moog.
And I've put Spohn boxed rear lower arms on too, after discovering how weak the stamped factory arms were.
new front and rear sway bar end links, new sway bar mount bushings. The new front lowers are all that remain to update.
Enough wear to make them totally loose. That pic is with the vehicle jacked up by the frame, the suspension hanging totally loose / on the upper stop. That will give you a lot of 'float' and random motion, alone.
I've since changed the uppers and CVs and the lowers are next month. At that point I'll have replaced all the rubber in the front suspension and all the moving parts. Going down the highway it's pretty dang smooth and comfortable now, even without getting to the lowers yet.
These are heavy vehicles, getting long in the tooth. They need a lot of maintenance and wear-parts replacement before anything definitive can be said about them. Fortunately they are still in their 'prime' in terms of the repair market. Huge range of parts available, in all price ranges. But before anybody goes for a high dollar single subcomponent, I urge you to spend much less and freshen up all your old junk, 'baseline' the thing then see what you really need to improve.
And doing stuff like putting $300++ worth of shocks on it withOUT freshening all the suspension bushings etc isn't going to help much.
Go look at rockauto.com, you can pretty much change all your suspension wear components for the price of ONE supername off-road part. I suggest folks do that first. Or at least in conjuction with installing a premier offroad component.
I changed / freshened up all my steering stuff some time ago, too. New inner and outer tie rod ends, inner sleeves for reinforcement, new pitman and idler arms too. No more wandering down the road. All that was about $175 in parts iirc, mostly Moog.
And I've put Spohn boxed rear lower arms on too, after discovering how weak the stamped factory arms were.
new front and rear sway bar end links, new sway bar mount bushings. The new front lowers are all that remain to update.
Last edited:
Smileyshaun
Observer
Just get the sawzall and hammer out and cut till the tires fit .