2010 FJ Changes

[cruiseroutfit]

Wow this guy ^^^ thinks Toyota has never made a mistake with their vehicles before. That the "marketing guys" and engineers that Toyota employs are infallible. Wow two words for you, Toyota Echo...

Its not like they made a little 'mistake' or even a mistake platform. This is 25 years of progressive 'mistakes' despite spot on accuracy in other market. We are not talking a single platform, we are talking about dozens and dozens of platforms that did not see a US offering and a parallel effect in which our US offerings were dumbed down in the aspects a serious off-roader looks for. I use the term 'mistake' very loosely as I don't think it is a mistake, I think it is very calculated marketing. Toyota didn't surpass GM in total sales riding on the back of 25 years of mistakes in their game plan here in the US market.

We haven't had a removable top Toyota 4x4 since 84', other markets saw them into the new century.

We haven't had a diesel Toyota 4x4 since the early 80's, other markets continue to see nothing but.

We haven't had a solid axle Toyota 4x4 since 1997, that's 12 years. You didn't see Toyota figuring "whoops we made a mistake with the UZJ100's IFS", no they made the SFA 105 in other markets yet introduced the 200 worldwide as IFS.

These are not mistakes, these are calculated decisions based on overall sales, market research, market demand, environmental and legal concerns and production costs.

Can we all dream, sure. But ExPo is not even a remotely sane place to do sampling on "would you buy it" as we are different than 99% of Toyotas market. Look at TRD gen 1 Tacomas in which the e-locker was a standard feature. What percentage of Tacoma owners do you think actually use them, I would suggest 2-3% at best and I really think I'm being liberal there. Yet here on ExPo you'd think you'd made a huge mistake buying a truck without one. Its all relative. All these guys that "would go buy it off the lot today" sure are not being to innovative with their current vehicles or imports. Rare beasts such as 70 Series and SFA 90's era Toyotas are not that hard or expensive to get here in the states yet I don't see many doing it. If you are really willing to pony up the money, why have you not already in the form of a custom build or a rare import?

From both a personal and business standpoint I would love nothing more than Toyota to open up their product lines to the US market. But I'm not so convinced there is the market some would have you believe. Look at Jeep, of their 6 vehicle lineup just one remains a SFA, all others have morphed into IFS platforms. Are they learning for Toyota's "mistakes" or success

 

[Maddmatt]

Yeah, the fantasies are fun, but unfortunately Martin is right. Does Toyota make mistakes? Sure - but not that often. If the FJ40 model was viable they never would have dropped it.

Personally I don't want to go back to SFA's, vinyl seats or no A/C. I can drive my 4runner 10-12 hours and feel fine at the end of the day - no way I could have done that in my FJ40, or my SSII, or my '81 Hilux.

That being said, I've done a couple 6+ hour days behind the wheel of the new JK, and find their highway manners just fine, but you can see from my partial list of previous vehicles that I don't set the bar very high.

I would throw my hat in the ring as a potential buyer for that FJ/Runner concept that I already admitted to liking (with jump seats in the back of course ) but I know from being on the other side that the list of "make this and I'll write you a check" people dries up pretty fast when you actually make it. You get a lot of "this is not the best time, maybe in a year or two....." responses.

Unfortunately they are not in the business of making the perfect vehicle for 2% of the population - but what do I know, I'm still waiting for my Crosslander.

 

[Aggie]

Its not like they made a little 'mistake' or even a mistake platform. This is 25 years of progressive 'mistakes' despite spot on accuracy in other market. We are not talking a single platform, we are talking about dozens and dozens of platforms that did not see a US offering and a parallel effect in which our US offerings were dumbed down in the aspects a serious off-roader looks for. I use the term 'mistake' very loosely as I don't think it is a mistake, I think it is very calculated marketing. Toyota didn't surpass GM in total sales riding on the back of 25 years of mistakes in their game plan here in the US market.

We haven't had a removable top Toyota 4x4 since 84', other markets saw them into the new century.

We haven't had a diesel Toyota 4x4 since the early 80's, other markets continue to see nothing but.

We haven't had a solid axle Toyota 4x4 since 1997, that's 12 years. You didn't see Toyota figuring "whoops we made a mistake with the UZJ100's IFS", no they made the SFA 105 in other markets yet introduced the 200 worldwide as IFS.

These are not mistakes, these are calculated decisions based on overall sales, market research, market demand, environmental and legal concerns and production costs.

Can we all dream, sure. But ExPo is not even a remotely sane place to do sampling on "would you buy it" as we are different than 99% of Toyotas market. Look at TRD gen 1 Tacomas in which the e-locker was a standard feature. What percentage of Tacoma owners do you think actually use them, I would suggest 2-3% at best and I really think I'm being liberal there. Yet here on ExPo you'd think you'd made a huge mistake buying a truck without one. Its all relative. All these guys that "would go buy it off the lot today" sure are not being to innovative with their current vehicles or imports. Rare beasts such as 70 Series and SFA 90's era Toyotas are not that hard or expensive to get here in the states yet I don't see many doing it. If you are really willing to pony up the money, why have you not already in the form of a custom build or a rare import?

From both a personal and business standpoint I would love nothing more than Toyota to open up their product lines to the US market. But I'm not so convinced there is the market some would have you believe. Look at Jeep, of their 6 vehicle lineup just one remains a SFA, all others have morphed into IFS platforms. Are they learning for Toyota's "mistakes" or success

I said Toyota made mistakes, I.E. the Toyota Echo. I didn't say that any of their IFS 4x4's were one, in fact I wouldn't have owned 3 myself had I felt that way.

People on this board take one thing you say and argue it to no avail.

oh and as for imports, we have a Aussie 1978 FJ40. I am not going down that road again, Australians can screw up a vehicle just as quickly as Americans can

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I said Toyota made mistakes, I.E. the Toyota Echo. I didn't say that any of their IFS 4x4's were one, in fact I wouldn't have owned 3 myself had I felt that way.

LOL. Let me get this right. We are engaged in a freindly discussion about Toyota's selection, particularly SFA 4x4 platforms and your rebutting comments made by others based on the Echo? You sir have me confused? Martin's post was 100% related to 4x4 Toyota platforms? How was I to know your referring to their compact car line? :lurk:

 

[ryguy]

So about that 2010 FJ....

 

[Martinjmpr]

So about that 2010 FJ....

The "big reveal" on the new 4runner is scheduled for 09/24, at least that's what they posted over on T4r.org. If that is the day Toyota reveals all of its 2010 models, I would guess that's when we'll find out about the FJC.

 

[4Rescue]

Martin: I have to respectfully disagree, I seem to come back to Mercedes... They sell the SFA G series right along next to all the other SUV's and CUV's etc. they make (just like Toyota... ALOT) so why not throw some 20's and an upscale interior on the 78 Wagona nd Troupy and then give WE THE CONSUMER the option of deciding if we want the bling version or the work horse...

IMO Toyotas using fairly specious reasoning in that the don't sell what I'm talking about in the US so of course they have no sales for something like that... See if you don't sell it we can't buy it so the prophecy is fufilled!!!! were not talking about a whole new truck here, just give we trhe American consumer the option to buy what you already make...

As for all the marketing people... you give too much credit to a bunch of bean counters that, like alot of the rest of the work force in the US, just phone it in. They're under no pressure nor do they have any data to support that we the N.American consumer woulodn't buy something like the 70 series so they have their answer without asking the question... they're not going to drum up more work are they????

The truck I want is out there... unfortunatly my personal belief is that politics play more in the equation then actual numbers... of wich there are none . Basicly, if you never try how do you know... The 70 Series has never been offered here so how can you say it's nopt a sales winner??? Do you really think we in N.America are THAT much different then the rest of the world where you have the CHOICE to buy one of these trucks??? I don't.

Cheers

Dave

 

[tacomadave]

Of course there is a North American market for SFA durable vehicles, Farmers, Red Cross, other foreign and domestic aid programs, Forestry, Mining, Archeology etc. all could use a rugged offroad SUV capable of carrying decent loads and people, and get decent mileage. 70 series Land Cruiser would be perfect. I know people in some of these industries who can't stand their diesel Ford super Duties etc. Hell they could sell them as Hino's marketed as commercial vehicles... They clearly don't need to sell all that many of them to make a profit on shipping them here, they already do ship some over for the mining industry, there are two dealers I know of in Canada that sell brand new LC's for mining vehicles.

Someone mentioned in here about it costing too much to Toyota to upgrade a 70 series to NA safety specs, airbags and engine emissions? Well the 2010 70 series HAS airbags and the same engine as the new 4Runner....

Read here:

http://forum.ih8mud.com/70-series-tech/299223-ready-2010-here-we-go.html

I know this is the 4Runner forum not the LC forum but they were mentioned earlier.

Its all just wishful thinking on our parts... :sombrero:

Dave

 

[Cackalak Han]

So anyway, if they made the FJ with 4doors and kept the overall dimensions about the same, it would really be tempting. Also, maybe giving the windshield a little bit of an angle to help ward off that cracking problem. I like the looks of the FJC, but the suicide doors, visibility and the countless cracked windshields killed it for me.

 

[Corey]

Just turned three years July the 24th.
Only replaced one windshield so far.

Since my kids are now grownup, the suicide doors do not bother me in the least.

 

[Gatordoc]

I like the FJ a lot, always have since I first saw the concept in back in '03. It's the only interesting, exciting vehicle that Toyota has in the NA market at the moment, at least as far as I concerned. I love the concept and the styling and the direction they took with it, I just wish they had stuck to the basis of the design (utilitarian, capable, affordable) instead of overloading all of them with useless upgrades and whiz-bang gadgets to the point that a big portion of their potential market (active young people) simply couldn't afford one.

Build one with manual everything (windows, door locks, transmission, t-case, hubs, etc), no electronic nannies, navigation, etc... and sell it for around 20-22k out the door and I'll bet dollars to donuts they couldn't keep up with demand. Won't happen any more than a solid axle variant would, but since we are talking pipe dreams here, that's mine.


As to the IFS vs. Solid front debate, here are my two cents. The argument shouldn't be so much about IFS vs. SFA; there are any number of examples of each suspension type that are good and bad for various reasons. A poorly engineered example of either will be weak (SFA Jeeps with dana 30s), while a well engineered example will be strong (IFS military 7-tons). That's a gross oversimplification, of course, but you get the point.

The problem is not that most modern 4x4s are IFS, but the fact that most modern 4X4s are engineered for lighter duty use than their equivalents from the old days, which coincidentally happened to have predominantly solid front axles. As trucks and SUVs have become more "in" they have shed much of their utilitarian nature. Most buyers simply don't use a modern truck/suv as it would have been used 30 years ago, so the manufacturers build the vehicles to suit because its cheaper to build a light duty vehicle and it allows them to improve their profit margin. Its all about the $$$, in the end. If the market in North America placed more emphasis on utility and functionality vice bling and comfort we would see more ruggedly engineered vehicles with both IFS and SFAs.

 

[mtnbike28]

Keep it simple...

I agree, I would have loved an all manual FJ Cruiser, for about $21k out the door. Even if I find the suicide doors a pain with kids. But when I was shopping, they were all (fairly new) well over $27k. Too rich for me, more so because of living in the rust belt. It ended well for me, I got the DC Taco I always wanted! (used of coarse)

 

[dustboy]

Well argue all you want about front axles and demographics, but all I care about is that the green color stinks. Nothing army about it. Even money green would have been better, at least it would have sold with the thug crowd.

Oh, and I like my IFS. Goes anywhere I want, and nice to drive everywhere else.

 

[ryguy]

Well argue all you want about front axles and demographics, but all I care about is that the green color stinks. Nothing army about it. Even money green would have been better, at least it would have sold with the thug crowd.

Oh, and I like my IFS. Goes anywhere I want, and nice to drive everywhere else.

X2, and how many of us have wanted a bright red or dark blue fj

 

[Corey]

Saw this video over at the big FJ forum.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkLJiZ_GBDE

Hope it was not posted already, running on little sleep, long day at work too.