2010 FJ Changes
- Thread starter ryguy
- Start date
Hilux_Max
Adventurer
A tonne of potential upgrades....lets start with a Right Hand Drive Version.....for the rest iof the world to enjoy, and then put the Prado D4D into it.
I'd be sold on that! :victory:
Maddmatt
Explorer
I'm still liking what was dubbed the FJRunner, add true 4 doors and its a winner but could be pretty long?
Takes all kinds, I think this one looks awesome - if they'd build it stripped down, but offer jump seats in the back, I'd be in line - of course I'm a demographic of one, so I'm not holding my breath.
4Rescue
Expedition Leader
I know I've asked myself and others over and over again... But: (oh and before we begin this rant... I LIKE that FJRunner thing, I really like it... Ok get ready 
)
Why in the hell didn't Toyota build a JK Killer??? With all the success that the new JK has had, Toyota could easily build something comparable ala the original FJ40 or even the 84-85 1st Gen 4 Runner (THe retro-SFA 1St Gen re-make being my favorite idea...Or GASP- the 70 Series they already make!!!!) If Toyota built something like that Jeep would completely loose all of it's market share in that realm since the Toyota offering would obviously be significantly better in every respect (Ok I'm exagerating but you see where I'm going with this...)
I mean seriously, they want to compete and Jeep has proven for YEARS that people will still buy SFA "TRUCKS" and that a smooth ride isn't all it's cut out to be. I mean how many ditzy little teeny boppers who have NO clue what that 4wd lever is for (or have 2wd's) are there out driving their 4 Door JK that Daddy bought them and loving it??? I see about 100 a day. So whay wouldn't Tooyta go after that market??? An SFA FJ with a removable top and lockers/lower T-case gears would definatly sell as would the "retro Taco" shown at SEMA and I'd think it's take more then a bit of a "bite" out of Jeep's market share eh...
Instead we get No diesels, weaker frames year after year after year... IMO these days Toyota has really gotten off-track in the 4wd realm. Don't get me wrong I think the Tacos (all of them) is a great truck, powerfull, pretty good off-road without too much modification, but really, the 84-85 SFA trucks and to a slightly lesser degree the IFS 4 Runners and Trucks from 86-1995 were flat out amazing although fairly under-powered. Hugely over-built frames, perfect wheel-bases, manual everything, gear driven T-cases... And people bought them by the thousands... still do, but now they've weakened the frame, made them bigger, now they've got the power but aren't as ideal a rig to use it in off-road... I mean that's great and all, but hows about ONE model for those of us who still know what makes a solid 4wd: Beefy frame, low gears, a manual tranny, around a 100-105" wheelbase, manualy selectable hubs, good Ground clearence, solid skid plates an SFA if that's warented (although I'd argue there's no real reason to NOT want one unless you're into fast desert racing)... basicly the 84-85 PU and 4Runner updated and given a nice injection of power and milage... Why can't they make at least ONE of these trucks??? THey make 10 other SUV's, why not ONE solid off-roader... and No, sadly the FJ just isn't it. Oh wait they already make it!!!!!!!
The formula is out there, hell Toyota coppied it from Jeep once, why not do it again and re-establish a ledgend??? I sure don't see it as a losing proposal... Hell, give us access to the 70 series, seeing as THEY ALREADY MAKE WHAT I"M ASKING FOR!!!!!!!!!! But for some silly reason some imaginary line in the sand says I can't have one. Honestly if Oregon wasn't where everyting in my life was rooted, I'd leave this country for someplace I could get a 70 series (or any number of non-sissyfied trucks) in a heart-beat. America isn't exactly "The land of Oppertounity" it used to be eh but that's a different thread completely.
Sorry I'm rambling, but this frustrates me a bit eh
Cheers
Dave
)Why in the hell didn't Toyota build a JK Killer??? With all the success that the new JK has had, Toyota could easily build something comparable ala the original FJ40 or even the 84-85 1st Gen 4 Runner (THe retro-SFA 1St Gen re-make being my favorite idea...Or GASP- the 70 Series they already make!!!!) If Toyota built something like that Jeep would completely loose all of it's market share in that realm since the Toyota offering would obviously be significantly better in every respect (Ok I'm exagerating but you see where I'm going with this...)
I mean seriously, they want to compete and Jeep has proven for YEARS that people will still buy SFA "TRUCKS" and that a smooth ride isn't all it's cut out to be. I mean how many ditzy little teeny boppers who have NO clue what that 4wd lever is for (or have 2wd's) are there out driving their 4 Door JK that Daddy bought them and loving it??? I see about 100 a day. So whay wouldn't Tooyta go after that market??? An SFA FJ with a removable top and lockers/lower T-case gears would definatly sell as would the "retro Taco" shown at SEMA and I'd think it's take more then a bit of a "bite" out of Jeep's market share eh...
Instead we get No diesels, weaker frames year after year after year... IMO these days Toyota has really gotten off-track in the 4wd realm. Don't get me wrong I think the Tacos (all of them) is a great truck, powerfull, pretty good off-road without too much modification, but really, the 84-85 SFA trucks and to a slightly lesser degree the IFS 4 Runners and Trucks from 86-1995 were flat out amazing although fairly under-powered. Hugely over-built frames, perfect wheel-bases, manual everything, gear driven T-cases... And people bought them by the thousands... still do, but now they've weakened the frame, made them bigger, now they've got the power but aren't as ideal a rig to use it in off-road... I mean that's great and all, but hows about ONE model for those of us who still know what makes a solid 4wd: Beefy frame, low gears, a manual tranny, around a 100-105" wheelbase, manualy selectable hubs, good Ground clearence, solid skid plates an SFA if that's warented (although I'd argue there's no real reason to NOT want one unless you're into fast desert racing)... basicly the 84-85 PU and 4Runner updated and given a nice injection of power and milage... Why can't they make at least ONE of these trucks??? THey make 10 other SUV's, why not ONE solid off-roader... and No, sadly the FJ just isn't it. Oh wait they already make it!!!!!!!
The formula is out there, hell Toyota coppied it from Jeep once, why not do it again and re-establish a ledgend??? I sure don't see it as a losing proposal... Hell, give us access to the 70 series, seeing as THEY ALREADY MAKE WHAT I"M ASKING FOR!!!!!!!!!! But for some silly reason some imaginary line in the sand says I can't have one. Honestly if Oregon wasn't where everyting in my life was rooted, I'd leave this country for someplace I could get a 70 series (or any number of non-sissyfied trucks) in a heart-beat. America isn't exactly "The land of Oppertounity" it used to be eh
but that's a different thread completely.Sorry I'm rambling, but this frustrates me a bit eh
Cheers
Dave
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cruiseroutfit
Well-known member
While the JK has remaind SFA, look at the remainder of DC's fleet... I wouldn't go as far as to say that SFA's sell the vehicle rather that the JK is built upon a legend of a vehicle that will continue to sell. I would not be at all surprised to see an IFS Wranger based platform in the years to come, not at all.
cletaco
Observer
I agree. It seems that Toyota has two markets: North America, and the rest of the world. NA is unfortunately a different market, and they must think that they'll not make enough money selling 70 series here. I don't know what volume they sell in the rest of the world, but I'd imagine it is relatively low considering how expensive they are. A troopie will set you back at least $55,000 USD in Australia ($65,000 AUS). Anywhere you are, that is a specialty truck, and I'd imagine that few will fork that over here in the US. It's a shame, especially that we get no diesels.
spikemd
Explorer
I would also venture to say we can also thank our politicians and lawyers for not having a 70 series imported any time soon. I am sure they will not measure up to our 'safety' standards without having 24+ airbags, multiple crumple zones, etc... To get a car federalized and legal to sell in the US takes a lot of money and trying to update an older design like the 70 series to current US safety standards is probably absurdly expensive.
RedDog
Explorer
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Martinjmpr
Wiffleball Batter
The problem with this argument is that if you accept this premise, (i.e. that Toyota could make money by selling either a modern FJ40, or an SFA truck/SUV, or selling the 70 series in the US) then you have to also accept the premise that Toyota is a company that "leaves money on the table," That Toyota apparently doesn't want to make money.
I don't believe that.
Toyota employs people whose job it is to determine what people will buy and how much they will pay. They employ engineers who tell them how much it will cost to bring a given vehicle to market, including the cost of complying with environmental and safety laws. They employ market researchers who try to figure out what segments of the market are not being served and what parts of their competitors' businesses they can steal.
I have to believe that if there was a way for Toyota to make money selling an FJ40, or selling a 70, or selling a SFA truck in the US, they'd be doing it already, because Toyota likes to make money.
Most likely Toyota has crunched the numbers and come to the conclusion that the cost of producing and bringing such vehicles to market would be high enough that projected sales would not recoup the cost, and they'd lose money. It's as simple as that.
Remember it's not enough to make a desirable vehicle. You also have to be able to sell that vehicle at a price people will pay. As Cletaco pointed out, a stripped down 70 series Troopie would run ~$55,000 in the US (actually by the time you add the air bags, safety glass and emissions crap it would probably be more, but for the sake of argument, let's stick with the $55,000 number.) Now, who do you know who could possibly pay that much for a vehicle? Most of the people who are in the market for a $55,000 vehicle want leather seats, surround sound, DVD players, and a nice, soft, cushy ride.
If Toyota could bring an FJ40 type vehicle to market, could they sell it for a competitive price? The Jeep JK starts around $22k depending on options. Even assuming people might pay more for the Toyota name (I think they would), could Toyota bring it to market for under $30K? And if they couldn't, then who, exactly, is the target market? I'm sure as hell not in the market for a $30k vehicle, especially not one that can only seat two adults comfortably, and I doubt most of you are, too.
One of my favorite "guilty pleasures" this Summer has been this television show called "Shark Tank." For those who have never seen it, it is like this: There are 5 multi-millionaires, all self-made business people, who sit on a panel. Then the "contestants" come and pitch their ideas to these people, who are free to invest up to $1 million of their own money in the idea or the business.
What is interesting to me is the way the businessmen (and one woman
) consistently shoot down a lot of the starry-eyed dreams of these entreprenuers for one simple reason: Just because you have a great idea, or an interesting product, it doesn't mean you can make money on it. There are a million great ideas out there but even when they're interesting or innovative or creative, it doesn't mean they are money-making ideas. Ask yourself this question: Why did Toyota drop the FJ40 from the lineup in 1984 and shift over to wagon-type SUVs (The FJ60 and 62?) They could have kept pumping out the FJ40 if they'd wanted to, but they didn't. Why?
Aggie
Adventurer
Wow this guy ^^^ thinks Toyota has never made a mistake with their vehicles before. That the "marketing guys" and engineers that Toyota employs are infallible. Wow two words for you, Toyota Echo.
Look most of the people on this here board can afford a 40-50K dollar vehicle. And if it is one that is more useful to our cause we will want Toyota to consider it. It is all speculation whether they can make money on it, but it doesn't matter it is us dreaming, not actually expecting Toyota to bring it to Market.
Look most of the people on this here board can afford a 40-50K dollar vehicle. And if it is one that is more useful to our cause we will want Toyota to consider it. It is all speculation whether they can make money on it, but it doesn't matter it is us dreaming, not actually expecting Toyota to bring it to Market.
Martinjmpr
Wiffleball Batter
Wow this guy ^^^ thinks Toyota has never made a mistake with their vehicles before. That the "marketing guys" and engineers that Toyota employs are infallible. Wow two words for you, Toyota Echo.
Look most of the people on this here board can afford a 40-50K dollar vehicle. And if it is one that is more useful to our cause we will want Toyota to consider it. It is all speculation whether they can make money on it, but it doesn't matter it is us dreaming, not actually expecting Toyota to bring it to Market.
You're right, I take it all back. Toyota could make money selling SFA trucks, FJ40's and 70's in the US.
Unfortunately, this would conflict with their secret goal of pi$$ing off the Expedition Portals Toyota sub forum, and we know how important that is to Toyota.
Curse you, Toyota! You've done it again!
Aggie
Adventurer
You're right, I take it all back. Toyota could make money selling SFA trucks, FJ40's and 70's in the US.
Unfortunately, this would conflict with their secret goal of pi$$ing off the Expedition Portals Toyota sub forum, and we know how important that is to Toyota.
Curse you, Toyota! You've done it again!
You are way too dedicated to your argument man. We are all having a good time fantasizing about having a different vehicle in the USA, and you don't quite get that everybody knows Toyota won't do it, you are right there isn't money in it, but for some reason you feel like posting the same thing 15 times in the same thread. Jokes on you bud.
All I was saying is you are giving them TOO much credit, their market predictions have been wrong in the past (i.e. the Toyota Echo) and they really won't know how a vehicle will do until they bring it to market. No support/study group will give in depth views to all of N. America.
Martinjmpr
Wiffleball Batter
No, I'm just having fun shooting down other people's pie-in-the-sky fantasies.
Hey, everyone's got to have a hobby, right? :sombrero: