2011 Jeeps get new diesels -- in Europe

jeepdreamer

Expedition Leader
Gotta stop...

Haven,
You brought up a point that I hear often and so Please..Don't take this as directed at you, I'm just venting in general.
I hate that line..."they still think of old semi engines"... Just grates against my nerves. The misconception towards diesels has hardly, if ever been attempted to be countered. We spend millions of dollars a year to educate people about all sorts of things, from the enviornment to suicide prevention. When was the last time you heard of a government agency or private college offering information towards the benefits of diesel? How often is the concept or potential of bio diesels as a replacement fuel touted? So Why not diesel??
Oh..they are just big, stinky truck engines...Please! The aspects of diesel are so unrealized that it is borderline criminal that we have ignored them for as long as we have. But then again, why wouldn't we?
Diesel is more expensive in the US...Well why is that? As mentioned it is less refined than gas? So the extra expense is elsewhere...like in taxes! Diesel is taxed at a higher rate to originally cover the wear and tare of corporate trucks running up and down the highways. Sure...they do...but there are so many other ways to skin that cat that taxing all diesel is just rediculous.
And since both diesel and gasoline are "fossil fuels"...lets not forget the huge corporate influances to shun anything that may threaten thier stranglehold on our wallets. Both of these FFs are finite...when exactaly they run dry is far to large a debate but the best idea would be an alternative now, before that happens, right? And while everyone is jumping up and down over electric vehicles and hybrids...I just have to say Why? That is an entirely new, extremely expensive system with little to no track history. And lets not forget the initial buy in for everyone to phase out their dino-burners for the E-ticket. I just can't get on board with this as a good, workable solution. Not to mention that the current Lithium batteries have...well, lithium! Which is even less common on earth (by far) than fosil fuels, and once used has no known way to be disposed of...? Then what?
Let me stop ranting a little and offer an idea. Suppose you set up a small booth on any street corner and offered to talk to people. Your entire speel is about this great, easily and cheaply manufactured fuel source that could be used in current vehicles with little to no modifications. This fuel source was less harmful (less, not uber free zero impossible dream kind but low) and was produced as a by product of the same source that powers ones house for free? How many people would you think would be interested in learning that they could have free electricity AND free fuel to drive around..? And from a source that is almost limitless and has little negetive residual effects?? Think some people would buy it? Think they would want to know more?? I think so..esp when they realize its not some future sci-fi wet dream requiring a space ship and all the money ever...plus 50 years to develop and would force them to change how they live now. I think sold in that manner we could get past this mindset that is about as useful as repression and descrimination. I would be willing to guess that younger folks would find current diesels far more appealing when shown in their current and future potential contexts. Its just a matter of turning on the light of education and opening the door to freedom from fossil fuels.
Solar farms are a reality. The alge that can be produced in the solar tubes is one of the best sources for biodiesel material. In essance a circular energy plant that is self regenerating.
ok...sorry all...rant over.
 

JPFreek1

Explorer
What is the scalability of diesel from algae? Is it practical?

Actually, that's a good question and it is practical.

Seth Warren, who traveled the Pan American Highway from Alaska to South America in a self-sufficient, bio-diesel Toyota fire truck, did a second project entitled The Elements Tour where he drove the same vehicle using algae-based biofuel. From what I understand, he had tremendous success with it in his diesel engine.

I've got a 3.0L CRD in my Grand Cherokee and as much as I love the idea of a diesel Wrangler available here in the States (not including the AEV J8), the points made earlier about its economic viability here are why it has not happened and why the 3.0L CRD and 2.8L CRD in the Liberty were done away with. The business case for Chrysler just doesn't make sense for it.

But alas, we can still keep dreaming...

On another note, the Pentastar V6 (referenced in this thread) will be replacing the underpowered 3.8L in 2012 from what I've heard. The Pentastar V6 is a huge improvement from its 3.8L cousin and is far more in-line with V6 options from other manufacturers.
 

haven

Expedition Leader
More talk about the 2.2L Mercedes diesel for the European Patriot here. It's a sweet engine.
http://www.trucktrend.com/features/...uropean_jeep_patriot_diesel_engine/index.html

The good news is that Mercedes is planning to import this engine to USA in the C-Class sedan and the GLK small SUV.

The bad news is that Jeep is planning to have Fiat build the replacement for the Patriot in Italy, which probably means Fiat engines will be used for the new Patriot.
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
Oh don't get me started!!!!

There is ZERO reason that the diesel engines are not offered in the USA at this time. Other than the fact that they get better mileage, make more power, and last longer. Who wants to sell a vehicle like that. The current Euro emissions are almost identical to the 2010 diesel emissions required as far as I can tell. While I am not thrilled about the particulate filters and there somewhat finicky nature as far as BioFuels goes...I would still give almost anything for a current off the showroom diesel wrangler.

As far as algae fuels go, to summerize the 1970-80s DOE report, "There is no way that algae fuels can compete with $40 a barrel oil". Wait a minute....oil isn't $40 a barrel anymore :coffeedrink:

With the addition of the diesel particulate filters on modern diesels, Synthetic diesel fuel made with the Fischer-Tropsch process and a Ruthenium on Alumina catalyst, would be just the ticket. This technology isn't outside the realm of the 'home brew' type guy. The feed stock can be almost anything carbon, including waste bio-mass like grass clippings or wood chips. The yield is something on the order of 50 gallons per ton of waste with enough waste heat and short chain hydrocarbons to power the reaction, heat, and power your home.

Sorry.....rant mode off.
 

haven

Expedition Leader
Jeep did offer two vehicles with diesel engines recently (Liberty and Grand Cherokee). Neither were sales successes, and the Liberty had lots of warranty issues.

With Chrysler still in recovery mode, they can't afford to take a chance on a Jeep vehicle with appeal to a small audience. The new Grand Cherokee is a hit, and there's a steady market for the gas engine Wrangler.
 

TomH

Adventurer
More talk about the 2.2L Mercedes diesel for the European Patriot here. It's a sweet engine.
http://www.trucktrend.com/features/...uropean_jeep_patriot_diesel_engine/index.html

The good news is that Mercedes is planning to import this engine to USA in the C-Class sedan and the GLK small SUV.

The bad news is that Jeep is planning to have Fiat build the replacement for the Patriot in Italy, which probably means Fiat engines will be used for the new Patriot.

Now this is just wild speculation, but who knows? I own a Kubota tractor, but know a little about New Holland tractors. Fiat now owns New Holland and I believe they put their own diesels in them. I wonder just how difficult it would be to go to a New Holland dealership, order a small diesel engine, then find some upfitter who could install it in a Jeep. Kubota makes its own diesels, very fine engines; I wonder if fitting one of their little diesels in a Jeep would be possible? Just a wild thought!!
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
The CRD liberty outsold production till it was cancelled. The grand was just a bit too expensive...
 

alosix

Expedition Leader
I'd be happy to see a new PentaStar in the 2011 Wrangler instead of that gutless 3.8L.
Euro IV was easier on particulate matter than our current CARB influenced once are.

Euro V might be a match though, but I'm not sure for how long.
 

alosix

Expedition Leader
The CRD liberty outsold production till it was cancelled. The grand was just a bit too expensive...

Indeed, and they keep not putting it in the vehicle that might actually have a market for it.

I really think the chrysler sales/marketing guys only know how to sell muscle cars with Hemis.. Notice how they had a minor brand resurgence when they became popular again for a bit.. Now as they are fading again they only have the Ram that they know how to sell...
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
I just read through the press release. While I find it technically fascinating that jeep is making some strong headway, I find it infuriating that a historically great American brand is not releasing this technology in the USA! How is it that Europe is getting the best of the best and newest technology....while we get same old SSSSHHHHtuff?

From the Release...


Jeep Wrangler and Wrangler Unlimited with New 2.8-liter Diesel Engine, Stop/Start Technology, New Interior and New Body-color Hard Top

Jeep continues to refine the successful Wrangler formula by combining its legendary, benchmark capability with a new 2.8-liter turbo diesel engine with fuel-saving Stop/Start technology, a new and upgraded interior, and a new body-color hard top for the popular Sahara model.

Jeep Wrangler and Wrangler Unlimited now offer a new 2.8-liter turbo diesel engine for markets outside North America. This new engine improves power to 200 hp DIN (147 kW) at 3,600 rpm, a 13-percent improvement over the prior 2.8-liter diesel engine. Torque for the new engine comes in at 410 N•m at 2,000-3,200 rpm with the six-speed manual transmission and 460 N•m at 1,600-2,600 rpm with the W5A580 five-speed automatic transmission.

The proven W5A580 automatic transmission is new to Wrangler and will deliver smooth shifts and optimum fuel consumption. The W5A580 transmission includes adaptive electronic control or Electronic Range Select (ERS) driver-interactive manual control and an electronically modulated torque converter clutch.

Jeep Wrangler’s diesel engine, when paired with the manual transmission, incorporates Stop/Start technology – the first application of this technology on a Chrysler Group vehicle. With Stop/Start, the engine is shut off when the vehicle is stopped, the shift gear is in Neutral, and the clutch is released. The engine then restarts automatically when the clutch pedal is depressed. Drivers can deactivate the technology via a button on the dashboard, and an icon displays in the instrument panel to indicate the Stop/Start status.

An upgraded starter and alternator improve durability, and a DC/DC power converter maintains electronic feature functionality while the vehicle is stopped. Stop/Start technology improves fuel efficiency and reduces CO2 emissions by managing the amount of time the engine runs. For the new Jeep Wrangler family, fuel economy is improved by up to 13 percent, and CO2 emissions are reduced by up to 14 percent.

Other improvements and features incorporated into the new Euro V, 2.8-liter diesel engine include:
• Four valves per cylinder and double overhead camshaft (DOHC) with belt drive
• 1800-bar common-rail fuel injection system
• Piezo electric injectors
• Variable geometry turbocharger
• New composite intake manifold
• New exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) system
• Reduced friction ring pack
• Electric swirl control
• Oil and exhaust temperature sensors
• Standard diesel particulate filter (DPF)
• Additional adjustments for improved noise, vibration and harshness (NVH)

The new Jeep Wrangler continues to be the most capable off-road vehicle and now brings a significantly quieter cabin, pleasing on-road ride and handling and reduced overall NVH. Wrangler now gives customers a driving experience similar to the mid-size Jeep Cherokee, but with the 4x4 mastery to handle any extreme off-road conditions.

Jeep Wrangler’s interior highlights include a redesigned instrument panel and new storage areas with improved ergonomics and upgraded materials. A new console and upgraded door armrest areas boast comfortable touch points, while a redesigned center stack is easier to reach and operate. Automatic temperature control, heated seats and power heated mirrors are now available, and drivers and passengers will enjoy enhanced visibility courtesy of larger rear windows.

New steering-wheel controls allow the driver to operate the radio, speed control, hands-free phone and other vehicle functions while keeping hands on the wheel. A new USB device interface connects to storage devices (thumb drives and most MP3 players) for use with the vehicle’s Media Center, which now includes streaming Bluetooth audio.

In line with traditional Jeep design, hex-head bolts are utilized throughout the interior and are used to mount a “Jeep, Since 1941” inlay onto the new passenger grab handle.

To provide a more premium appearance, Jeep Wrangler Sahara models boast a new, premium, body-color hard top. In addition, several new Wrangler colors will be available, including Deep Cherry Red Crystal, Detonator Yellow, Sahara Tan, Cosmos Blue and Bright White.

The new Jeep Wrangler and Wrangler Unlimited will be available in markets outside North America starting in early 2011.



It looks to me like the current 2011 JK diesel would be suitable for the current 2010 diesel emissions in the USA!

Come on JEEP! Pull your you know what out of you know where and give us the diesel option in the USA!

I find this very frustrating......
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
To slightly continue my rant....

I ran the mileage numbers.....

Accounting for the conversion to US gallons and the 13% increase in fuel economy posted by Jeep. The mileage would look something like this.

28.3 combined
33.7 highway
22.3 city

This is in US gallons!
 

jeepdreamer

Expedition Leader
Rant,Rant,RANT!!!

Metcalf..please, PLEASE...Rant away! I agree. But hey...look at what we are getting from all that list...color matched hardtops...
o-boy.
 

jeepdreamer

Expedition Leader
noooo Saa...

Sorry,
to many years in the military have removed the WooSaa from working for me. haha. But since I'm heading to Germany soon at least I will get to look at the new diesels in person. Can't afford one, let alone bring one home with me but at least I can drool... ;)
 

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