2014 Tacoma to share design with HiLux ?

[soonenough]

I do think toyota needs to stop wasting their money with these so called baja packages and make a true offroad HD package......HD meaning frame and manual locking hubs. Ford still does it (manual locking hubs) why cant you?

While I agree with you here, I doubt they would do it because the majority of people that want 4-wheel drive and are comparing the Tacoma to competing vehicles would probably view manual hubs as a disadvantage because it can't be engaged 'on the fly' like ADD hubs. Similarly, I would bet that the majority of people probably prefer a switch on the dash rather than a manual lever for 4-wheel drive controls. I think it all goes back to what several people in this thread have said - generally speaking, American truck buyers want 'convenience' and 'luxury' items, and probably would not be willing to sacrifice those in order to gain heavy-duty-ness, increased reliability / capability, etc.

I could be wrong though, and maybe there are enough Toyota drivers that are interested in these things. Although from a corporate standpoint, a lot part of it isn't about what current Toyota owners, or Toyota enthusiasts, or die-hard Toyota fans want, it's about what on-the-fence potential buyers want.

And with regards to the Ford trucks having manual hubs - isn't that only on the heavy-duty models (F-250 and -350)? I'm pretty sure the F-150 has automatic hubs. Meaning that Ford looked at their buyers, and although they know acknowledged that manual hubs were preferable from a heavy-duty / reliability standpoint, they also acknowledged that the majority of 4-wheel-drive truck buyers who just want a basic-needs, non-heavy-duty truck (F-150) would desire the convenience of automatic hubs.

 

[Rattler]

While I agree with you here, I doubt they would do it because the majority of people that want 4-wheel drive and are comparing the Tacoma to competing vehicles would probably view manual hubs as a disadvantage because it can't be engaged 'on the fly' like ADD hubs. Similarly, I would bet that the majority of people probably prefer a switch on the dash rather than a manual lever for 4-wheel drive controls. I think it all goes back to what several people in this thread have said - generally speaking, American truck buyers want 'convenience' and 'luxury' items, and probably would not be willing to sacrifice those in order to gain heavy-duty-ness, increased reliability / capability, etc.

I could be wrong though, and maybe there are enough Toyota drivers that are interested in these things. Although from a corporate standpoint, a lot part of it isn't about what current Toyota owners, or Toyota enthusiasts, or die-hard Toyota fans want, it's about what on-the-fence potential buyers want.

And with regards to the Ford trucks having manual hubs - isn't that only on the heavy-duty models (F-250 and -350)? I'm pretty sure the F-150 has automatic hubs. Meaning that Ford looked at their buyers, and although they know acknowledged that manual hubs were preferable from a heavy-duty / reliability standpoint, they also acknowledged that the majority of 4-wheel-drive truck buyers who just want a basic-needs, non-heavy-duty truck (F-150) would desire the convenience of automatic hubs.

That would be quite evident comparing the pickup and pickup buyer to those from say the 70s & early 80s when trucks were pretty sparse of power and convienence options. Kind also reflected in the fact that there are so few manual trnasmissions available here in the US compared to back then too.

 

[cam-shaft]

While I agree with you here, I doubt they would do it because the majority of people that want 4-wheel drive and are comparing the Tacoma to competing vehicles would probably view manual hubs as a disadvantage because it can't be engaged 'on the fly' like ADD hubs. Similarly, I would bet that the majority of people probably prefer a switch on the dash rather than a manual lever for 4-wheel drive controls. I think it all goes back to what several people in this thread have said - generally speaking, American truck buyers want 'convenience' and 'luxury' items, and probably would not be willing to sacrifice those in order to gain heavy-duty-ness, increased reliability / capability, etc.

I could be wrong though, and maybe there are enough Toyota drivers that are interested in these things. Although from a corporate standpoint, a lot part of it isn't about what current Toyota owners, or Toyota enthusiasts, or die-hard Toyota fans want, it's about what on-the-fence potential buyers want.

And with regards to the Ford trucks having manual hubs - isn't that only on the heavy-duty models (F-250 and -350)? I'm pretty sure the F-150 has automatic hubs. Meaning that Ford looked at their buyers, and although they know acknowledged that manual hubs were preferable from a heavy-duty / reliability standpoint, they also acknowledged that the majority of 4-wheel-drive truck buyers who just want a basic-needs, non-heavy-duty truck (F-150) would desire the convenience of automatic hubs.

I agree, the wants I have such as the frame and manual hubs are probably not what the mass market would want or care about. Correct manuals hubs on the fords now days are only the f250 hds and up.

Cam-shaft.

 

[Dipodomys]

When you think about it, one of the reasons that pickup trucks and SUVs have come to command such a significant share of the U.S. market over the last 20 years or so is for the exact reasons that so many of us here on this forum are less than satisfied with what is currently available to us here. Pickups and SUVs sell like hotcakes because they are comfortable, have power windows, "on-the-fly" transfer cases, and various other conveniences that make them appealing to 95 percent of the market. Sure, the the trucks from yesteryear were tough and durable, but they were also crude, uncomfortable, loud, comparatively less safe, and lacked the conveniences that most drivers have come to expect. One of the reasons for the success of the modern SUV is that they appeal to women, and most women want power windows and snazzy styling. Most men want that too. They just aren't going to buy a vehicle that doesn't have those things. The smart designers at the Big Three, Toyota, etc. figured that out and started offering trucks and SUVs that were civilized and drove more like cars. It's been tremendously successful for them.

The fact is, 95 percent of the driving public wouldn't know what a box frame is, or a manual locking hub, or a manually-shifting transfer case. But they could definitely relate to power windows, 8-speaker stereo systems, and leather interiors. Any vehicle that didn't offer those things would be seen as a step backwards. So 95 percent of the buying public wants that stuff, and five percent want what we want. Which group do you think the manufacturers are going to market to?

Welcome to the 5 percent!

 

[Clutch]

This might be a repost (and an article from 9 months ago), but echos what we are discussing here.

Future of the Compact Truck

 

[Redrock]

Planner - I'd heard they were all Mexico-built now, primarily for environmental reasons. Something about the resin system used for the bed.

Probably the same reason certain Prius assemblies are built in Mexico - they're nasty for the environment (not to mention the environmental effects of dumping the car and the non-recyclable batteries into the landfill at the end of the vehicle's life...).

As an environmental remediation specialist who deals with automotive-related toxics every day, I can tell you that NiMH batteries are not only completely recyclable, but they're also completely nontoxic. There's no part of a Prius battery that's more environmentally unfriendly than any other given hundred pounds of metal. Naturally, there's unavoidable environmental impacts associated with mining and metal production that apply to any metal object or structure, but nickel is staggeringly common, produced around the world, and present in many alloys and common objects. It's not a problem.

Also, you should understand that Toyota offers a bounty on old batteries reconditions old batteries, and in fact the batteries bear a 1-800 number that you can call and arrange for the battery to be picked up for free. At the end of a Prius' life, they're typically disassembled and their parts salvaged just like any other car...and you'd have to be some kind of idiot to send a Prius battery to the landfill, because they fetch $700-800 apiece on Ebay.

There is no reason to believe that the Prius is any more environmentally unfriendly at the end of its life than any other car. I'm not sure where you're getting your information, or if you're just making assumptions, but...

 

[Redrock]

Anyway, back on topic...I've driven Hiluxes. They're tanks, and insanely capable. But they're not what US truck buyers are really looking for.

Personally, I think it'd make the most sense for the Taco and Hilux to share interiors, body panels and structure, seats, and so forth, but have differentiated frames and drivetrains. The Taco could ride on a frame variant and suspension setup more optimized for low cost, smooth ride, and towing for the American market, and the Hilux could get its fully boxed, high-payload, utilitarian frame. Of course, drivetrains would vary based on market. Basically, I'm envisioning something like the difference between the Ram 1500 and the 2500/3500 variant - same body, different frame and drivetrains. The Hilux would be sort of a "Tacoma Heavy Duty" and, for that matter, could even be sold as such in the US market. Maybe they'd have better luck with that than the Tundra.

 

[4xdog]

Redrock, your thinking makes the most sense yet on how this could play out commercially. And thanks for the insight into the battery discussion.

Don

 

[Sojourn]

While this is all good dialogue, the article that initiated this thread has several inaccuracies ( 2 corrections are- Sequoia is dead in 2015 and the new Tundra doesn’t launch until model year 2015). The auto industry forecasting services have published this info months ago. Auto News and it’s contributors, Mark Rechtin and Mark Williams should know better, this article appears to be outdated. “Next Generation Tacoma could align with Hilux”? If anything, Toyota will separate the models. As Toyota moves to make each region more autonomous, in North America in particular, we will see different Toyota vehicles than the rest of the world. Of course this strategy is in conflict with Toyota’s, and the rest of the industry, move toward global development and sourcing. But never the less, as Toyota’s Technical Center in North America becomes responsible for more models, North America will see more unique vehicles. The logic is that a vehicle should be designed for a specific market, not a global “one size” fits all approach. Toyota is also working to be less reliant on Japan sourced parts. So by locally sourcing, common parts with other models is less important.

In the past, TTC, with Calty design, and help from TMC in Japan for the drive train, developed the Sienna, Tundra, Sequoia, Avalon and the Venza, all North American unique models. Moving forward TTC will take responsibility for the Tacoma and the Camry. Look for these next models to be more specific to what Toyota believes is what Americans (and to a lesser degree due to market size, Canadians and Mexicans) are looking for.

The future of the Tacoma? A model year 2016 major/minor change (probably same frame and a similar, if not the same, drive train), different sheet metal and updated safety and features technology. That is probably about it. It will not be much different than today’s Tacoma. But why should it? It is by far the best selling vehicle in it’s segment. If it’s not broke, why fix it? Toyota is back on top, they have recovered from the recalls, the tsunami and Thailand flood set backs and have regained the title of the number one car manufacturer (most global sales).

 

[Clutch]

The Hilux would be sort of a "Tacoma Heavy Duty" and, for that matter, could even be sold as such in the US market. Maybe they'd have better luck with that than the Tundra.

I could see that, like with their compact 1 ton they used to make for the US market, it would have to get amazing fuel economy to draw buyers away from
the fullsize domestics.

 

[Flagster]

I could see a Tacoma or Hilux option but not the Hilux (Tacoma HD) replacing a Tundra...you said it best...why would I (ie typical american consumer) pay 33 grand for a tacoma when I can buy a crew cab F150/Tundra that can haul 4 adults comfortably and lots of gear in the bed...
If anything the tacoma will get more unibody/comfy/mpg increase/crossover looking/etc while the tundra gets bigger and cushier probably with less payload...

 

[Flagster]

I could see that, like with their compact 1 ton they used to make for the US market, it would have to get amazing fuel economy to draw buyers away from
the fullsize domestics.

View attachment 115252

And would you drive that ugly beast around...would be good for firewood hauling...or my dirtbikes that I can't ride in the national forest

 

[Clutch]

I could see a Tacoma or Hilux option but not the Hilux (Tacoma HD) replacing a Tundra...you said it best...why would I (ie typical american consumer) pay 33 grand for a tacoma when I can buy a crew cab F150/Tundra that can haul 4 adults comfortably and lots of gear in the bed...
If anything the tacoma will get more unibody/comfy/mpg increase/crossover looking/etc while the tundra gets bigger and cushier probably with less payload...

I should of said, "yeah I could see that... in my dreams...." lol


Speaking of Tundras, I went and test drove one...felt like a little kid in it, my gawd that thing is huge.
I go back and forth on the Tacoma vs a Fullsize...for my needs.

 

[Clutch]

And would you drive that ugly beast around...would be good for firewood hauling...or my dirtbikes that I can't ride in the national forest

I don't see them very often down here in the Ol' Pueblo, did happen to see one going down the road in front
of me the other day, and wondered how many dirtbikes I could fit on the flatbed...even the girlfriend asked
why I don't own flat bed...

 

[Flagster]

There a a couple here in Flag that a local metal supply yard uses for delivery...Recently I have been looking at V10 F450s with a 16ft flatbed...and johnny lift hydraulic loader...then I can load my bikes and my Tacoma in the back...might as well take all the toys...
One even came with a blue boy loader so you can take your own personal crapper...

Flatbeds are cool with no lift (ie 2 feet off the ground)...I have considered flatbedding my tacoma but I think the bed would be like 4 feet off the ground...not too conducive to bike loading...

And yes...driving a tundra is like piloting a cavernous offshore center console with triple 350 outboards...love the power but the dissociation from your surroundings is odd...when I drove one I seemed to wallow in the empty space

Back on topic...I like little trucks and I like that you can still get the tacoma with a manual tranny...but if the Tundra ever came with a standard transmission it would be hard to resist with that motor...