2020 Ford F250 on 37s - Expedition Truck Camper Build!

[mk216v]

Thank you Mr. & Mrs. Power. We’ve purchased a 2021 F350 and this has been a great learning thread.

Perhaps I missed it, but are the Method wheels a zero offset? How is the clearance around the brakes with 17” aluminum wheels?

I absolutely agree with you about the sway bar and have removed most on most vehicles I’ve had. Much better always IME. Do you think the factory steel 17’s would be a viable wheel if the sway bar is gone? I like the look of the Methods very much, but would like to save a bit when I can. I’ve also considered 18’s if I invest. Gain a little clearance for the brakes and to allow some interchangeable options with some other trucks we have. I’m thinking zero offset would be best for longevity of components and good handling and steering characteristics. A switch to 18’s could allow for a slightly positive offset which would tuck the wheels a bit better. I’d sure love to hear your reasoning.

I was a little bummed to find out that bushwhacker doesn’t make a cut out flare for the new body style. That would be the only reason to install a flare IMO. To fit bigger tires with less or no lift. I like the functionality of the Fab Fours option, but the look just kills it for me. How are the rocks treating the paint? It almost seems like a non issue anymore for an aluminum body.

Thanks again and happy travels.

Info from Carli on wheels (w/ their susp at least); https://carlisuspension.com/product...-suspension-systems-gas/17-gas-pintop-system/

Wheel and Tire: Factory Wheels SHOULD NOT be run with oversized tires. They’re known to rub the radius arm, sway bar and most concerning – Brake Lines. Factory tires and factory wheels will work without issue but we DO NOT recommend running oversized tires on factory wheels. On our 2.5” Ford Systems, we recommend 17”-18” wheels, no more than 9” wide with 5.5” of backspacing with Carli Fabricated Radius Arms or 5” Backspace with factory arms; 5” will require a bit more trimming. Tires, 37×12.5” will fit with some trimming; 35” will likely fit without trimming. The more rubber, the better the small bump compliance will be at proper inflation pressures. The ride will firm up as you go larger in wheel diameter. For more details, see our article on wheel and tire selection and tire pressures:

Tires and Wheels: How Do They Affect My Ride?

 

[montypower]

True... but on the other hand, you could be hanging out naked at the beach in Baja rather than freezing in the effing snow!

Different sorts of obstacles and challenges down there I guess...

Baja is fantastic! There's a time to relax and and time for adventure. Baja can definitely have both. We love the warm weather but it's fun in adverse weather too. There is nobody out. Quiet. There is something special about the calm of snow.

 

[montypower]

Perhaps I missed it, but are the Method wheels a zero offset? How is the clearance around the brakes with 17” aluminum wheels?

I absolutely agree with you about the sway bar and have removed most on most vehicles I’ve had. Much better always IME. Do you think the factory steel 17’s would be a viable wheel if the sway bar is gone? I like the look of the Methods very much, but would like to save a bit when I can. I’ve also considered 18’s if I invest. Gain a little clearance for the brakes and to allow some interchangeable options with some other trucks we have. I’m thinking zero offset would be best for longevity of components and good handling and steering characteristics. A switch to 18’s could allow for a slightly positive offset which would tuck the wheels a bit better. I’d sure love to hear your reasoning.

I was a little bummed to find out that bushwhacker doesn’t make a cut out flare for the new body style. That would be the only reason to install a flare IMO. To fit bigger tires with less or no lift. I like the functionality of the Fab Fours option, but the look just kills it for me. How are the rocks treating the paint? It almost seems like a non issue anymore for an aluminum body.

Thanks again and happy travels.

Congrats on your Super Duty! Check out page 1 for all the build specs including model #s. You can look them up online for complete details. It's a fairly tight fit but no issues clearing rotors/calipers with 17" wheels. Our XL trim came stock with 17" steel wheels from Ford with Michelin tire. Absolutely would have kept them if not building for 37s.

Wheels will depend on the tires you choose. I picked the tires and chose the wheels to facilitate them. You need to push the tires out a bit depending on width and diameter. There are a ton of variables here including stock height or lifted suspension. Probably need to design a complete build plan and see if what wheels fit. I wouldn't build a truck around wheels.

Method 701 wheels have their unique "bead retention" lip to help with low pressure bead holding. This might be helpful depending on if you air down or not. I do like the factory steel wheels for their simplistic design and functionality. For me function before looks...

I don't like flares but it would be sweet to run 40s with no lift. Fab Four is crazy money and stupid looking and offers poor tire coverage (no thanks). AEV flares would be sweet but they only build for Chrysler products. But 37s are fairly simple fitment and really plenty of tire. I really think 37s are the sweet spot for all the reasons (cost, durability, clearance, mpg). We have a few rock chips but not bad. And aluminum is great for not rusting!

-Peter

 

[mk216v]

In this off road overland adventure, we continue our track through the remote mountains in Southern Oregon!
Then we got the truck stuck on some hidden rocks and logs while turning around. Thankfully, the winch enabled a quick recovery.
Adventure is nothing without obstacles and challenges…

Thanks for this video P&F.
When you were winching out of the snow field, what tire pressures were you at then?
When did you have F&R lockers engaged during your trip, if at all?
Do you carry Maxtrax or the like, and if not, do you think those would have helped?
How about chains for the rear in this situation?
We're looking to 4season camp including snow (but we'll be on winter tires in winter), so curious as to your experiences.

 

[montypower]

Think we were 20 or 25 front and 30 rear. Yes, we used both lockers in many sections of the deep snow. You don't want to spin tires in deep snow! Dig down and it's a tough recovery. Always best to stop before digging, back up and go forward again with slightly more momentum. Throttle control is crucial. Need to really feel the tires and vary throttle constantly. I'm guessing we got caught between 2 logs under the snow.

No Maxtrax. I've owned multiple sets. Had them before they were "cool" for overlanders. Mine were beat up. Used them constantly in nearly every condition for multiple years. They are a hassle to carry (heavy, awkward) and a mess to deal with. They rarely were effective in deep snow by themselves. Shovel is better. Mud they become an absolute mess. Rarely were enough by themselves for recovery. Other methods were more effective. Rocks they were terrible - used them on the Rubicon Trail. They would shoot out from under the tires leaving the truck in the same spot. Sand is really where they shine. But you can do just as well learning throttle control and stopping before digging down and airing down further. Or even a shovel. Not a fan. Sold all them. Won't be buying more. That being said... MaxTrax are the best recovery boards. Couldn't believe the abuse they took. Couldn't destroy them.

Bubba Rope (elastic recovery rope) is a game changer for deep snow, mud and sand. This is absolutely one of my favorite recovery tools. Just need another vehicle. Easiest, fastest recovery. And fun!

Shovel is one the most underrated most useful recovery tools. A good short handle digging shovel. Light and cheap! That would be the next tool to use if a winch wasn't an option.

I hate chains. They are terrible in nearly every condition (but ice). I've done trail runs in deep snow and can go further than trucks with all 4 wheels chained. Tire pressure and throttle control will get you further. Chains will dig and make a mess. Plus a massive hassle. I've never chained a vehicle and driven snow for decades. But... I have used chains before... put them on the ground under a tire to assist with a vehicle recovery. Good for that!

Winter tires for the win. I like flexible tires like All Terrains with 3 peak snowflake rating that can be used year round. Not as good as dedicated winter tires but good enough. KO2 is a tough tire to beat in the snow department (and most conditions). I've run 6+ sets of Ko2s on many rigs. 37" Ko2s on my 1998 Tacoma rock crawler. They showed up MT tires constantly in the rocks. And held their own in the mud. Nice on road. These Geolander XAT are not nearly as good in packed snow/ice but they dominated in deep snow. Really impressed with them there.

 

[montypower]

Shock Mount Chop Mod:

For those interested in more rear axle clearance. Here's some close up pictures of what chopped factory shock mounts look like with replacement tabs welded on. Easily gained 2" ground clearance!

Keep in mind you'll need to ensure shock length works (at full compression) and either change shock or lower bump stop.

 

[montypower]

In this off road overland snow adventure, we continue our track through the remote mountains in Southern Oregon!

Fallen trees and more trees! We give our Dewalt pole saw a serious workout. Plus, lots of winching to remove fallen trees blocking the road.

Our camper proves to be “too tall” to get under a set of fallen trees. This is a perfect example of where a “popup” camper would be better. But it turned into an excellent opportunity to put the winch and recovery gear to work.

Would you turn around or cut your way through the trees?

 

[plumber mike]

Thanks again guys. My feet are still cold looking at Mrs. Powers' shoe choice;-)

Our NF has a rule about not cutting down standing dead. I think it has to do with habitation for certain species of birds. Cutting downed trees is alright, but would require a firewood permit if you planned to take any. Turning around is no fun. I'd avoid it whenever possible. I'm going to keep my eyes peeled for a red pole saw that'll match the batteries I already have. Yours looks very handy, and a nice upgrade from the cordless Sawzall I normally use.

I have another question that you may have already answered. I read you removed the sway bar, but did you remove both? I've got my front one gone, and the ride is noticeably improved. The back looks like it would also need to come off, especially when doing the shock mount mod. I was hoping you'd confirm. If you have no issues with excessive sway with that camper, I should be fine with a lower lighter load.

I also noticed for the first time just how much better your grille looks without the giant plastic blue oval.

Oh......one more as long as I'm pestering you. Have you noticed any issues with excessive dirt or mud on the sides of the truck because of the zero offset wheels? I'm torn between a 17x8.5 0 or an 18x9 +18. I want neither flares or custom radius arms, and not sure which way to go. The 18's have appeal because our other trucks have them, and they could be shared, but in reality, I probably never would. Tire selection seems good in both sizes, so it's just a matter of committing to one. I was hoping for a sweet clearance sale somewhere that would help me decide. Short story long....would you change them or are you still happy with your selection?

 

[mk216v]

Think we were 20 or 25 front and 30 rear. Yes, we used both lockers in many sections of the deep snow. You don't want to spin tires in deep snow! Dig down and it's a tough recovery. Always best to stop before digging, back up and go forward again with slightly more momentum. Throttle control is crucial. Need to really feel the tires and vary throttle constantly. I'm guessing we got caught between 2 logs under the snow.

No Maxtrax. I've owned multiple sets. Had them before they were "cool" for overlanders. Mine were beat up. Used them constantly in nearly every condition for multiple years. They are a hassle to carry (heavy, awkward) and a mess to deal with. They rarely were effective in deep snow by themselves. Shovel is better. Mud they become an absolute mess. Rarely were enough by themselves for recovery. Other methods were more effective. Rocks they were terrible - used them on the Rubicon Trail. They would shoot out from under the tires leaving the truck in the same spot. Sand is really where they shine. But you can do just as well learning throttle control and stopping before digging down and airing down further. Or even a shovel. Not a fan. Sold all them. Won't be buying more. That being said... MaxTrax are the best recovery boards. Couldn't believe the abuse they took. Couldn't destroy them.

Bubba Rope (elastic recovery rope) is a game changer for deep snow, mud and sand. This is absolutely one of my favorite recovery tools. Just need another vehicle. Easiest, fastest recovery. And fun!

Shovel is one the most underrated most useful recovery tools. A good short handle digging shovel. Light and cheap! That would be the next tool to use if a winch wasn't an option.

I hate chains. They are terrible in nearly every condition (but ice). I've done trail runs in deep snow and can go further than trucks with all 4 wheels chained. Tire pressure and throttle control will get you further. Chains will dig and make a mess. Plus a massive hassle. I've never chained a vehicle and driven snow for decades. But... I have used chains before... put them on the ground under a tire to assist with a vehicle recovery. Good for that!

Winter tires for the win. I like flexible tires like All Terrains with 3 peak snowflake rating that can be used year round. Not as good as dedicated winter tires but good enough. KO2 is a tough tire to beat in the snow department (and most conditions). I've run 6+ sets of Ko2s on many rigs. 37" Ko2s on my 1998 Tacoma rock crawler. They showed up MT tires constantly in the rocks. And held their own in the mud. Nice on road. These Geolander XAT are not nearly as good in packed snow/ice but they dominated in deep snow. Really impressed with them there.

Thx for the info Peter.

Maxtrax are heavy? Compared to a winch as a "stage1" recovery tool(after a shovel)?

Glad to hear on the Yoko Geolander X-AT's in deeper/fresh snow.

Thanks for the tree clearing video. Looks like that's been the main use of the winch thus far. How are you getting up to some of these trees to connect the line to it--just climbing up somehow? And are you using any sort of winchline blanket to pull the winch line down if it were to come back at you?

PS--I looked for it in the thread but couldn't find it; which 4 parameters are you always monitoring with your ScanGauge? Battery voltage, coolant temp, trans temp, X? And you've found the factory gauges to be kind of useless because they're certainly not as detailed as the ScanGauge's?

 

[montypower]

I have another question that you may have already answered. I read you removed the sway bar, but did you remove both? I've got my front one gone, and the ride is noticeably improved. The back looks like it would also need to come off, especially when doing the shock mount mod. I was hoping you'd confirm. If you have no issues with excessive sway with that camper, I should be fine with a lower lighter load.

I also noticed for the first time just how much better your grille looks without the giant plastic blue oval.

Oh......one more as long as I'm pestering you. Have you noticed any issues with excessive dirt or mud on the sides of the truck because of the zero offset wheels? I'm torn between a 17x8.5 0 or an 18x9 +18. I want neither flares or custom radius arms, and not sure which way to go. The 18's have appeal because our other trucks have them, and they could be shared, but in reality, I probably never would. Tire selection seems good in both sizes, so it's just a matter of committing to one. I was hoping for a sweet clearance sale somewhere that would help me decide. Short story long....would you change them or are you still happy with your selection?

We don't have any sway bar (front or rear). Our truck only came with the front sway bar. No plans to add any sway bar. No issues with sway - but you need to drive for the weight/size of the rig. Will never handle like a car.

Yes! That front emblem is huge. Faith calls it a serving dish. HAHA

Not really, it will throw some. But hard to eliminate unless lowing, adding fender flares and large mud flaps. No thanks. Stock radius arms are fine. 17s provide greater sidewall profile which is nice for more compliant ride. We will be staying with 17s. They work great and more tire sidewall helps off road. Now... if talking 40s then 18s could be interesting.

-Peter

 

[montypower]

Maxtrax are heavy? Compared to a winch as a "stage1" recovery tool(after a shovel)?

Glad to hear on the Yoko Geolander X-AT's in deeper/fresh snow.

Thanks for the tree clearing video. Looks like that's been the main use of the winch thus far. How are you getting up to some of these trees to connect the line to it--just climbing up somehow? And are you using any sort of winchline blanket to pull the winch line down if it were to come back at you?

PS--I looked for it in the thread but couldn't find it; which 4 parameters are you always monitoring with your ScanGauge? Battery voltage, coolant temp, trans temp, X? And you've found the factory gauges to be kind of useless because they're certainly not as detailed as the ScanGauge's?

HAHA - Yep! That's my advice... At least a winch weight is down low. Shovel #1. So universal and low weight.

I still want to try the Maxxis Razr AT tires. That might be the next set... I like the General ATx but not sure about the sidewalls. Getting back into some snowflake tires would be nice.

So far... it's a tree removal winch! Truck is a great anchor. Although we did pull ourselves out in the snow (previous video) when it was caught up on logs.

Just throwing the tree strap up around a branch. No winchline blanket. Synthetic line doesn't store potential energy like steel cable. And it's light weight. So really not an issue like with steel. I still try to not stand in front of it in case something happened.

Scangauge monitor items: coolant temp, transmission temp, GPH (gallons per hour - fuel consumption), battery voltage

I guess the fancier model Super Duty truck with digital dash... you can use Forscan to modify the display gauges to show numeric readings. That would do the same thing. But our truck has the old school instrument cluster (how I like it).

 

[plumber mike]

We don't have any sway bar (front or rear). Our truck only came with the front sway bar. No plans to add any sway bar. No issues with sway - but you need to drive for the weight/size of the rig. Will never handle like a car.

Yes! That front emblem is huge. Faith calls it a serving dish. HAHA

Not really, it will throw some. But hard to eliminate unless lowing, adding fender flares and large mud flaps. No thanks. Stock radius arms are fine. 17s provide greater sidewall profile which is nice for more compliant ride. We will be staying with 17s. They work great and more tire sidewall helps off road. Now... if talking 40s then 18s could be interesting.

-Peter

Thank you.
I’m assuming the rear sway bar must then be part of a F350 GVW package or part of the Camper package that came on this truck. I’ll pull it off and toss it on a shelf.

I very much appreciate your thoughtful style and reasoning in modifying the truck. No fake bolt flares. No fake bolt bead lock simulation. I also specifically went “XL” package as it’s the only one that avoids some seriously over complicated and invasive components. The only option it doesn’t have that I’d like is a real clutch, but a Tacoma just isn’t enough truck.

After looking at far too many wheels, I’d say you made a good choice both practically and aesthetically.

Carry on....and thanks again.

 

[montypower]

It would be sweet to have a manual transmission. I really wanted a manual shift transfer case. Ford dropped it for the 2020+ Super Duty. Sad. I've thought about converting but will probably wait till the electronic shift fails.

 

[Grassland]

You can still manually lock the hubs tho, right?

 

[montypower]

You can still manually lock the hubs tho, right?

Yes, you can manually lock the hubs. Or leave in the "auto" position which actuates them via vacuum line.