Thoughts on suspension for an expedition bicycle

[DaveInDenver]

Fit an upside-down fork on the front

Why the fixation with inverted forks? Maverick forks have a custom thru-axle hub, which I'm not sure can accept an Old Man Mountain rack. Those work with a regular 9mm traditional skewer, pretty sure. Same with BOB trailers, they use an old fashioned traditional skewer.

 

[Scott Brady]

Why the fixation with inverted forks? .

I am a noob on these things, but to me, the logic is that the bottom of the shock is what moves, which allows attached panniers to be sprung weight at opposed to unsprung weight.

Here are a few images to demonstrate.

 

[RusM]

http://www.salsacycles.com/fargoComp09.html

I went to the big bike show in Seattle and a couple of custom builders had some expedition/touring bikes and none of them had suspension.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I am a noob on these things, but to me, the logic is that the bottom of the shock is what moves, which allows attached panniers to be sprung weight at opposed to unsprung weight.

I've only used OMM racks, which mount to the skewer. So it's my misunderstanding of these racks. If they mount to the upper of the fork and not the axle, then that does make perfect sense.

 

[RHINO]

maybe its just what most of us are used to, but i am also of the thought to small or no suspension for what your talking about. one thing i think about is if your really gonna load it to the point of front luggage your prolly not gonna ride it hard or fast enough to need that much travel. what about maintaining geometry on longer suspension while loaded? its gonna be stiff empty no?, besides suspension brings more parts into something that needs to stay light and robust.

 

[Super Doody]

No need for full suspension...it just more weight and more things to break. 20 mm thru axles are also kinda of useless. After you taco your front wheel, how does one find a wheel with a 20 mm thru axle in the middle of nowhere. I guess you can rebuild it but you need special size spokes or re cut and thread your own...and what about a truing stand that accepts 20 mm axles?

A steel frame bike with rigid or carbon front fork with 2.2'' front tires would work fine. Y0u can't haul *** with panniers anyways. Don't for get the brooks saddle and chris king headset.

 

[upcruiser]

I second Super Doody and some of the others. Steel frame, rigid fork, keep it simple. If you really want suspension, go with a seat post or maybe a flex stem.

I rode the White Rim and camped two nights self supported. I vowed not to use any support whatsoever, even water. So I overburdened my bob trailer with a 7 gallon water tank (there were two of us) and brought too much stuff that I didn't need for the 3 days of riding and exploring. The bob wasn't all that fun on the sandy trails and long climbs. Next time i do a long self supported ride I'm going to go with panniers and go light. Also I'm going to choose a route with some options for collecting water along the way!

I love that kitted out Pugsly that someone posted. I'd never seen one setup like that before. A buddy of mine has one, I'm going to have to give that thing a try. I love the idea of that setup.

 

[Christophe Noel]

For starters - less is USUALLY more when touring by bicycle. Bicycles are by nature a very simple machine, but people tend to want to complicate things almost for the sake of the effort.

Not that 29er and I are anything special, but we did a pretty strait forward 100 mile singletrack tour all above 9,000 feet in late fall on single speeds with no racks, no panniers, and Greg rides rigid. Easy. I think the one luxury we might have enjoyed might have been lower gears, but there's really no need to get overly complicated. I think lots of guys will make this overly complicated as that's just what some guys do, but the fact is, you really don't need all that much.

Personally, if you go off-piste, you'll probably come to regret many of those complications. Extra gear for example. Sure you might feel you need 50 pounds of gear, but wait until you have to push your bike 2 miles up and over some alpine pass....yuk. Or, you may think you need full suspension until your pivot bolt shells out or a seal blows.

Our own forum resident in last year's Colorado Trail race was foiled by a hydrolic brake and a derailleur hanger.

29er and I have two friends who've toured on and off-piste for literally tens of thousands of miles and their "expedition" bikes of choice were garden variety Specialized Rockhoppers fitted with top shelf Old Man Mountain racks and Vaude panniers.

Less is more.

Now that I think about it, my two most favorite tours were done on super basic bikes. I did a 400 mile off-piste tour of the Atlas Mountains in Morocco on a pretty darn cheap La Pierre mountain bike and a courier bag. I also rode from Dijon France to Sienna, Italy with again...a courier bag on the same bike I used for road racing. The best "expedition" bike is the one under your butt.

 

[sinuhexavier]

For my needs, the goal is to ride long distances on the dirt, like the White Rim, Kokopelli trail, etc. with limited pavement riding (ie. 80% dirt, 20% pavement)

Based on your idea of the White Rim and Kok Trail being long distances I think you would be doing yourself a huge disservice by not going with a quality full suspension such as the Santa Cruz Blur or something of that caliber, a sub 25 lbs bike.

Kok trail is a 3 days MAX with plenty of water if you have no sag support. The same goes for the White Rim... Having done the White Rim in a day I would even say it's easily a 3 day max ride.

Now my main reason for going full suspension would be the Kok Trail... Now there is some of the most epic single track at both the beginning and the end of that trail that would be a different experience on a rigid frame. On the East end you have the Mack loops, so much fun, on the West end you have Porcupine Rim arguably one of the top 5 single tracks in North America.

Now if you were doing the Utah traverse in one shot with no sag vehicle, that may be a different story.

 

[ntsqd]

The Pugsley carried to an extreme:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzRbCgp-RmM

(audio is not family rated)

 

[Life_in_4Lo]

if you are truly looking for a self-supported expo bike in remote areas, any suspension is a liability. Any air front fork could blow a seal or valve, same w/ rear shock and multiple links add complexity and chance of failure.

a cheap spring or bushing front fork will work if you need it, same with a suspension post if you want to take the edge off.

way simple and just like a truck, think more about the right tools and equip to field repair.

Now if you want a bling bike, that's fun too. but, a different story...

 

[Christophe Noel]

Seems like most debilitating failures on touring bikes are little things. I've seen guys foiled by something as simple as busted rack mounts or a crippled wheel skewer. It's the little things that'll getcha. It's seldom a blown wheel or cracked frame. One of my friends broke a pedal spindle which put him on foot for 3 days.

Two of my good friends spent a week in a remote town in Alaska waiting for a new BOB trailer skewer to arrive because theirs broke. Little things. So, with that in mind, the fewer little things to break the better. Imagine if a pivot bolt busted. Done.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Seems like most debilitating failures on touring bikes are little things. I've seen guys foiled by something as simple as busted rack mounts or a crippled wheel skewer. It's the little things that'll getcha. It's seldom a blown wheel or cracked frame. One of my friends broke a pedal spindle which put him on foot for 3 days.

Two of my good friends spent a week in a remote town in Alaska waiting for a new BOB trailer skewer to arrive because theirs broke. Little things. So, with that in mind, the fewer little things to break the better. Imagine if a pivot bolt busted. Done.

And there's only so many things you can predict or carry. BOB skewers, yeah you carry an extra. That I might have to say is a little shortsighted (unless it was the spare that broke!). But you can't very well carry an extra of everything, that defeats the purpose of light and simple. Ideally extra tubes, maybe a derailler hanger if yours is replaceable, a couple of multi-tools, two pumps (personally can vouch there), a few misc bolts, an extra front and rear axle, spokes, zip ties and duct tape... Complexity is not your friend here, absolutely. I'm on the Blur 'cause I only have the one main bike, but if I was ever to get time to do months long tours where I wasn't able to walk someplace in a day I would be seriously thinking steel hardtail, definitely.

 

[Cackalak Han]

Obviously I don't disagree, "steel is real". But what I like about Titanium is that it is bullet proof and you can "typically" avoid the potential problems in the first place.

I don't know. I've seen pictures of titanium bikes as well as steel ones. I'd say any crash hard enough to pierce through a steel tubing will reek havoc on a titanium as well. The difference is, the steel will be more likely be repairable.

 

[ntsqd]

I'm not sure how it would apply here, but while on the subject of Ti frames one item of importance that I frequently find isn't known is the metal's reaction with chlorinated solvents, like Brake Cleaner etc.
Do not use those on Ti, it forms metallic salts inside the metal (much like the magnesium mush formed from atmospheric moisture). Where I first caught wind of this was on Merlin's old web page in their Tech section.