97 SR Transmission issue and won't turn over, won't start

[pheepster]

Hello.

While I was away doing some fine army training my wife noticed fluid under our 1997 Montero SR; she stopped driving it.

When I returned home I confirmed that the leaking fluid was transmission fluid, strange because it never leaked any fluids prior to this issue. It started just fine and the fluid was indeed very low. I took it around the block and could see a steady trail of fluid left behind the SR as I drove; the fluid was pouring out. Parked it and a large pool accumulated underneath. I added fluid, not Mitsubishi diamond (figured I'd use the Castrol for a couple days and replace with the right stuff).

This is where the fun began. Started the SR, fluid leaking rapidly, like an idiot I tried for a trip around the block. After about 50 meters a harsh grinding noise and vibration started, and loss of power to the wheels. The SR would not move, had to tow it home.

Goes into neutral just just fine so I can push it. Seems to register the correct gear selection, as it will not engage the starter unless in park. However, while in park, when I turn the key the starter engages, but nothing as far as the engine turning over. I put in a new starter I had on the shelf, just to make sure. Same issue.

I understand I may have messed up the transmission and could be looking at needing to replace it, but what's with it not turning over? All my previous vehicles have been a standard transmission, so I may be missing something simple here. Any thoughts are appreciated.

-David

97 Montero SR
88 Dodge Raider

 

[jeep-N-montero]

Sounds like there is friction somewhere causing it to be binding up, if it is bound up then the engine will not turn over.

 

[pheepster]

Do you mean within the transmission? There doesn't seem to be resistance when the starter spins.

 

[calicamper]

Failed tourque converter? I know they can cause stalls.

 

[Salonika]

This is a weird one. Have you been underneath to try and see where the fluid was coming from? There is a little inspection cover you can remove to get a better look at the torque converter. And if I remember correctly, you can spin the torque converter freely through this access hole.

 

[pheepster]

I was under to replace the starter. I tried to determine where the leak is, was hoping it would be one of the hoses running the fluid up front, but those are dry. Seems to be coming from the bell housing area. Was hoping to get it started so I could get under and better determine the source of the leak.

I will look into the torque converter tonight if I get home in time.

Thanks for the ideas.

 

[pheepster]

determined that nothing is moving when the starter engages. Sounds somewhat normal, but nothing is moving.

Leaning toward a $100 torque converter from rock auto, or a $500 ( I remove from his rig) new/rebuilt trans from a local guy parting his SR.

 

[Salonika]

Hmmmm.....I would slow down a bit here and think this through. Let me throw a few things out here and let the community comment.
1. Would a failed torque converter fail in a "locked" condition? I don't think so. I think if it failed, it would tend to not lock up. Right? So with your no start condition, I wouldn't blame the torque converter straight away.
2. Doesn't a starter have enough balls to actually make the vehicle move? This comes from auto repair safety 101: never jog the starter in gear with a bypass off the battery. If somehow your motor is "locked" to the transmission, is there anything inside the tranny that could stop the starter from turning at least a little bit? Plus given what I said in #1, I don't think this is possible.
3. You lost a lot of fluid, but how much? What did the stick read when you checked it?

 

[RyanY]

Try starting it with the transmission in neutral - if the torque converter is somehow locked (which I've never heard of happening on a Mitsu), you should be able to start it. If it doesn't start in neutral either then the problem is not the torque converter.

Have you tried putting a wrench on the engine when it's in neutral and see if the engine is turning over freely?

 

[vanatee2000]

any chance the bolts on your flex plate backed out and now its crooked, preventing the starter from turning the motor?

 

[pheepster]

Thank you for the help. I've been super busy.

The vehicle will not start in neutral either. I spent about 30 minutes under it tonight, trying to get the small cover off (driver's side) to take a look at the flex plate. Batteries were going out on my light and it was dark, one of the bolts was been a pain so I didn't get the cover off. However, I could see that the teeth are pretty chewed up. Plus, a chunk of metal fell out of the gap on the flex plate cover, piece is bigger than a quarter and thicker than one as well.

I will update once I get the cover off and can see a little more.

 

[pheepster]

Got the cover off today, nice to work in the daylight.

Teeth on flex plate look a little chewed up, which is understanding. However it does spin freely when pushed with a screw driver. I marked it, and it does appear to be moving when engaging the starter.

This is the chunk of metal that fell out with the removal of the cover accessing the flex plate.

Not sure what to think. Slowly resigning to the COA of offloading this as a parts rig. Deploying soon and don't have much time to deal with this.

 

[pheepster]

For anyone who might run into this issue...

Today I got a better look and that chunk of metal is part of the flex plate, where it connects to the adapter/crank.

From crank bolt up front, engine will turn. Starter is spinning the flex plate, but not turning any belts up front.

Assuming the non-start issue is due to the broken flex plate, what would have caused that?

 

[Salonika]

This is the back of your engine (I think you have the 3.5). You are looking at the flywheel (or driveplate in the FSM). Those teeth are what the starter teeth mate up to when you jog the starter. If you are telling us that the starter is engaging that flywheel and turning it, but nothing on the front of the engine turns, then you've got a major problem. I can't even imagine anything other than a sheared crank, unless all 8 of those bolts sheared off. In the center of those 8 bolts is the end of the crankshaft.

 

[Salonika]

Here is the torque converter, which mates up to the flywheel from the other picture. I have no idea what that piece of metal is in your picture, or where it could have come from.