'99 XJ vs. '05 KJ

corprin

Adventurer
I have decided to start building up a rig for some light ExPo, just around the US, pulling my Japanese T-73 (similar to M416) ~1200-1400lbs. I currently own two fairly suitable base vehicles, which is causing considerable debate as to which one would be 'better' as the expo rig, thus I am calling on all your experience.

'99 XJ Sport
4.0/AW4/242/8.25
114,xxx
DIY add-a-leafs (XJ main leaf with eyes cut off), ZJ tie-rod, Hella 500's 4500K 35w HID, wiper cowl intake, Camaro quick-ratio steering box, Dynomax 2.5" CBE, dual electric fan conversion, YJ alternator brackets, 15x7 Cragar D-Windows with Treadwright ATG 235/75-15, Ext Idle switch, ZJ tow-package wiring kit (7-pin w/brake provision).
2011-12-18135139.jpg


Pros;
Paid off
Solid front axle, more capable offroad in stockish form
New wheel bearings (all four corners)
New brakes (all corners)
New front U-joints
New upper/lower ball joints
New right and left (ZJ) tierod/ends
New Camaro steering box
New Driver's floor pan
Cheap parts that are easy to find
Great aftermarket support
Easy to work on/improvise
Comfy seats
Cheap Fuel
Ample interior storage/usable space

Cons;
17mpg ~250mi range per tank
Live axle causes wandering tendencies on the freeway
Deep surface rust on roof needs attention
Rear bumper rusting
Receiver hitch rusting/needs cut/flip
Electrical gremlins affecting the passenger door


'05 KJ Sport
2.8 CRD/545RFE/242/8.25
96,xxx
GDE "Full Torque Eco" tune, non-F37 TCM, V6 airbox, Samco intercooler lines, Magnaflow CBE, 3000K 35w HID in factory fogs.
2011-11-20090810.jpg


Pros;
27-32mpg 450-510mi range per tank
300+ ft/lb
Lifetime Subscription to Sirius Premium
MUCH better on-road/highway performance and handling
New brakes (all corners)
New upper/lower ball joints

Cons;
Still making payments
Seats are horrible
Less interior space
Less capable off-road in stockish form
Needs 2" lift to level trailer tongue
Fuel slightly more expensive
Rare engine, parts are more expensive, and engine is harder to work on away from my garage

I love both Jeeps, I am just having issue with choosing which one would be the better ExPo rig.

Discuss.
 

Logans91XJ

Dirt Road Anthem
I would probably choose the XJ in almost any form but the KJ with the Diesel just sounds like more fun. I would rip those seats out and fab up some brackets and drop in something comfy

So my vote is for the KJ
 

88Xj

Banned
Man I wrote a huge reply for you, been writing since 12 its now 1:40..I'll retype it in the morning again but I'll do a short version now.
The whole fuel thing I'll cover in the morning and you'll be happy when I do:)

Never think of something as a con in a XJ though. Think of it as a chance to upgrade! Remember this!
Xj's are infinitely upgradable! Zj rear disks, WJ knuckle swap give better brakes & true crossover steering. Theres the NV241 Rubicon tranfer case that is 4:1 stock vs upgrading your NP231. Theres axle swaps, stroker motors, Zj interior/seat swaps which are like sitting is a lazy boy! Super nice, or if you perfer a more bucket style, theres the Renix era seats that recline, slide and rock! Yes they can be rocker forward and backwards:) and they are a amazing bucket seat for stock seats!
Theres doorles, there just soo much the list never ends! You can always make your XJ better and parts are everywhere. You can litteraly get stuff for pennys and parts from Lj's, Tj's, Jk's, WJ's, Zj's all fit our jeeps and are upgrades! I couldn't give that up.
I actually was looking at a 04 WJ but ended up in a 1988 jeep cherokee laredo. Its got manual windows and locks, only factory options were cruise control, tow hooks and a gas tank skid..came with a d35 to. I couldn't give up the Xj's lol.

The electical problem is problem because something got wet! Pull your door panel and kick panel and check it out, I bet you its simple enough to figure out! While you do that if you don't have the plastic behind your door panels like me..then you can go grab a roll of thick plastic from Lowes or stores alike and make some new door cover things. I had to because I didn't have any on my doors and it make a nice difference in sound and no more cold air blowing through.


Solid axle causing wondering? Not uh..you may have worn bushings or TREs or maybe you need an alignment. I payed for the lifetime one when I first got mine so now I get one whenever I think its off! Check stuff out though, chances are you have worn bushings!
You look like your jeeps got a Budget boost on it already..but I'd change a few things. Your rear end looks like its sagging even though its got an AAL. I would go get a S10 main leaf, but when you cut the eyes cut the like half circles, so they will wrap around your XJ main eyes....think military wrap leaf springs. Or look them up to see what I'm talking about. It'll help them not sag as quick and also the S10 main won't sag under weight as much, it'll carry the load better. You can also experiment..like running the S10 main and S10 overload. This is will also help carry weight is you tend to pull trailers it'll be a good option. Don't worry if you get the stink bug look, most jeeps will. Let it settle for a few weeks, my rear end is almost 1" higher than the front, but once filled with weight its even.
And a simple coil spacer up front..The S10 main and coil spacer may cost like 75 bucks tops..Netting 2-2.5" of lift. After that get some 16.25" lower control arms. This will push your axle forward slightly making it feel more stable. I run 16.5" arms on my 3" lift..16.5" is recommended for a 4.5" lift but its I did it because it makes the jeep more stable at higher speeds! Once you've done that do an alignment and love it:) Going over bumpers and everything now, my jeep just feels more stable with the slightly stretched axle.
If you won't go any higher with the lift, then you can get WJ upper control arms. Same length as our but have a updated bushing. Thus giving a nicer ride!
If you want the WJ uppers I can grab the best set out of our junkyard this coming weekend as we have 2 WJ's there now. I run the 16.5" lowers and WJ uppers and I'm at 3" won't go any higher than this! I love my setup!
You can run Jk shocks at 2" of lift..cheap solution and great shocks. Shoot I actually have 4 black Jk shocks right now..Virtually new, 17 miles on them. They were dealer take offs. You can have all 4 of them for shipping + 10 bucks..that'll buy me lunch. I run the red body Jk shocks which are slightly stiffer.

I'm doing the Wj knuckle swap as well. Currently collecting parts for it, got my knuckles and calipers/bracket already! I've already done the ZJ rear disk swap and it was a huge upgrade. If your going to pull a trailer, I'd deffinetly look into the ZJ rear disk swap. It'll help out greatly!

Since you have the 242 you can't run a auto locker because you'll lose the full time 4x4 option. I would personally swap in a 231 as they are far more upgradeable and it gives you the option to run a lunch box locker in your D30..all thats needed is the tcase itself and if you want the little shift selector thing. Otherwise its all the same! Doing so you can run a front lunch box locker. Spartan has one for 238 shipped to your door. Lock the front, not the rear. You will only notice the locker when your in 4x4 and if your in 4x4 your gonna be needing some extra traction. So lock it up and enjoy. It won't inhibit daily driving in anyway shape or form since it only locks when it 4x4.
You could run a lunch box/auto locker with the 242 but you can't use your full time 4x4 option. Or if you want to keep the 242 you could go big and get a electric locker or air locker for the D30. I would lock the front either way though.
It will help pull you over stuff vs being pushed over if you locked the rear. And lunch box lockers in the rear will have curtain draw backs when daily driving of course you you won't have that issue if you went air or electric locker..
My exact setup again! 3" and 31's with a Spartan front locker. I chose Spartan over the Aussie because Spartan came with a harden cross shaft. Aussie doesn't and Aussie was back ordered. Great reviews on the Spartan and I love mine!

Tires you can keep your 235x75's or up to a 30x9.5..your tires are basically 29" now so if you feel the need, make the jump:victory:
Also look into some skids..Rustys tranny skid will be great, its nice and flat and covers a large area, they also have their tcase skid..you can run both. Or get the factory tcase skid and Rustys tranny skid.
Get some rock rails if you feel the need! But skids are a must! Tranny/transfer and Gas tank! The front skid makes it kind of hard to work on everything, although it does offer some protection for your steering and such. Also acts like a splash gauge when going through puddles, it'll keep water off your alternator up to a point!

Deep surface rust on roof needs attention..remember no cons just upgrades?
Tape off the jeep and sand this down! Prime it up and paint it with that paint that reflects heat. Your doing a ExPo right, this is beneficial! I've seen it in white and a battleship grey looking color. This will give your jeep a unique look and help keep it cooler. Upgrade! Think of the new and old Fj's. There have fiberglass roofs, but also white to reflect some heat! My jeep has messed up paint everywhere lol. I intend to respray it factory colorado red with a battleship grey engine bay and roof. Engine bay because lighter engine bays let you see what your doing easier, and it'll match the roof. Roof to reflect heat!
Something similar to this color..if not white will do fine, but look for the heat reflective paint.
http://www.tidycampers.co.uk/gallery/display/battleship-grey-vw-t4-conversion/
I also removed my headliner and glued up this heat reflect sound deadener stuff! Its the same stuff as the window visors. I got a roll of it at Lowes for like 15 bucks. Glued it on with 3M adhessive..did 2 layers and it seems to hel with heat..I'm in the desert so I want to keep it as cool as possible!
I copied this idea from someone on Cherokee forum!

Rusty bumper? Messed up hitch? Sounds like its time to upgrade! Aftermarket bumper with build in hitch? Maybe a tire carrier?
Or sand yours done and spray it with bedliner! Save up and grab a nice aftermarket bumper though, you'll be throughly happy you did!


Again I'll cover the economy and fuel range in the morning..lets just say though I'm getting 19/23mph town/highway. 31's, 3" lift, 3.55's axles and a 5speed, my jeeps 23 years old on the original motor thats got over 280k so I think thats just about perfect! I get over 500 miles per tank! No thats not a lie, no thats not a fabrication. I'll explain in the morning!


I can't speak on the Kj as I haven't ever looked into them. But now you have ideas for your XJ.
Heres to show what a jeep with a locker will do..that looks stock on 235's to me and locker front/rear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFd9ugS8gqA
 
Last edited:

88Xj

Banned
To add really quick..the lifetime alignment is great! I get my jeep aligned after every major out. You'd be surprised at how easy your alignment gets knocked out of spec!
 

corprin

Adventurer
Wow, and thank you for the reply.

I was a bit tired when I formed the initial post, so let me clarify a bit here....

I am not giving up on the XJ or the KJ. Both vehicles serve a purpose in the household, and as we don't like driving my wife's cars ('01 Miata, '83 Mini) during these salty MN winters. The XJ is my beater/winter car. I take it on the trails, snow drifting, and just plain having fun. I don't care if someone door dings me in the park-and-ride, or a tree limb rubs up the side while out in the woods. The wander is in comparison to the KJ, which drives like a car thanks to the IFS, is much less reactive to winds, passing vehicles, grooved roadways, etc.... and both the XJ and KJ have lifetime alignment plans, and see the rack every 6mo at a minimum. IF the XJ drove like the KJ and got ~30mpg it would be a NO brainer. IF the KJ could wheel like the XJ it would be a NO brainer... Regardless to which vehicle I choose for my ExPo, I will be keeping both in the fleet (we have 5 cars for 2 drivers) as both serve a very real purpose.

I picked up the XJ for $2k last winter and fixed all the issues with a neglected suspension/steering/wheel bearings. I also cut out and welded in the driver's floor pan, as the entire pan was rusted away. The AAL from the XJ pack leveled out the XJ perfectly after they settled. I know they will continue to settle, but as it stands tossing 400lbs of gear in the back only drops it ~1". My next step, if it ever comes, is shackle relocation brackets and the ZJ V8 coils I have in the garage. I am not going to lift beyond that, and am perfectly satisfied with ~1" over stock. I spent years beating the snot of out my stock '86 XJ when I was a kid, and have returned to the chassis. I know how capable they are off road, and thus my dilemma. I am going to be upgrading to KJ rear brakes in the very near future. Similar to the ZJ swap, but are direct bolt-ons and allow me to use the spare rear rotors, pads/shoes I have sitting in the garage right now. I just did the Neon injetor swap, and cleaned up the idle, tip-in-throttle, and improved fuel economy. MPGs were also increased by removing the factory roof cross bars, and the electric fan upgrade. My ratings in the XJ are based on 90% city driving, so they are a bit skewed. This is partially because of my 3mi commute, and the KJ gets better fuel economy in 100% city, then the XJ gets 100% highway. I am secretly hoping the KJ will be rear ended by someone, totaling it out, so I can do the swap. The roof will be tended to this spring. I am going to pull the windshield and hatch, sand blast the roof to bare metal, POR15 it, and coat in light gray bed liner. The rear bumper is going to be eventually replaced by something I fab up, or just a cut/flip on the hitch to improve departure angle. Even if I don't choose the XJ for my ExPo, these things will happen, as it will remain in the fleet for years to come. Passenger door will be tended to this winter break, and is pretty common with the face-lift XJ's and their wiring in the doors... it's just a matter of getting the time and motivation to do it.

I bought the KJ three years ago when my old DD gave up the goat on its second engine. The 4x4 option and CRD suited me VERY well, and I absolutely love the thing... well besides the plywood seats and limited off-road prowess in stock form. I am going to need a new torque converter, as my factory one is not standing up to the torque of the diesel and towing a trailer. As said above, she does drive like a car, and has much better manners than the XJ. Room is limited in both vehicles, but that is fine. I am building a camping module that fits in my trailer, so we have all that extra real-estate being towed.

Wife is giving me the eye, so off to home depot! Keep the thoughts coming all!
 

Free Beer

Brocephus
I vote XJ.
More simple, parts are easier to find. Plus, disconnect the swaybar and air down the tires and the thing will ride like a cadillac on the trail. Our KJ rides like *** in the dirt.
 

88Xj

Banned
Alright now for the fuel economy part. You do have an automatic so fuel you won't ever get to where I'm at unfortunetly..but you can get close!

I have a 88 laredo. 3" & 31's at's, 3.55 axle swap, and a 5 speed. Its manual locks, mirrors and windows..only options on it are the gas tank skid, tow hooks and cruise! Seems like the perfect ExPo xj for me. No electrical hassle incase something gets wet, but still has cruise cause I'm lazy lol:elkgrin:
Anyway my jeeps odometer reads 283,182 miles.its frozen for some reason though, haven't pulled it apart yet. Speedo works but no odometer lol. My point is my mileage is above 300K at this point, my jeep doesn't burn coolant or oil. The motor is the OG motor thats never been rebuilt! This thing will last forever lol.

Anyway I have a lift, 31's and high mileage all fighting to kill my fuel economy. I'm getting 19 in town easily and can get 20-21 if I really baby it. I'm talking suburan area, stop lights every mile or so. And I'm usually 23mpg on the highway, I always travel at 65-68..I have got over 25mpg a few different times though. I've done a few things to help me obviously..
I want to have my XJ running on E85 1 day..its cheaper at the pump although it offers less mileage..sold fairly locally and helps the planet which is always good:wings:
Anyway the Xj can hold another 5-7 gallons of gas with just a few short hours of work. I'm actually pulling my gas tank skid in the next week or two to clean it and repaint it. But also to pull my tank and clean it thoroughly..Jeeps 23 years old so I'm sure theres some dirt or grit or something in there. I'll be doing this mod as well, except making my copper tubing closer to the top of the tank. My goal is to get it to hold 27 gallons maxium, that way I can fill it to 25.5 everytime and not guess weather my tank is full or if I should add more gas. Doing the math, at 22mpg and 25.5 gallons I can achieve 561 miles per tank..of course thats running empty. I'd say 530-540miles per tank just to be safe.
Write up seen here:
http://jeep-xj.info/HowtoFuelTank.htm

Now for fuel ecomony I'll just list what I've done.
703 dodge neon injectors, 4 hole vs our 1 hole. These are 21lbs injectors though, I now wish I would have chose the mustang 5.0 injectors as they are 19lbs. Maybe offering better mileage? Anyway performance felt better honestly, throttle response, idle and it started quicker! I gained 1mpg with these.
I have a Renix rig, our throttle bodies are 52mm stock..gayness! So I upgraded to a bored 59mm throttle body and spacer..spacer does nothing but it was free lol. Felt like I needed less throttle to maintain pace on the highway or in town. Idk if I gained anything because the lift and tires went on at the same time..I can say that I didn't lose anything either, so I believe it helped but the 31's and lift counteracted the gains lol!
I have a 2.5" exhaust with a magnaflow muffler, you already have your 2.5" so your good there.
I run the cowl intake/cheater snorkel like you do, so your good there!
I have wrapped my header in Titanium exhaust wrap..titaium kind is more heat and fire retardant I guess. But It helped in keep the temps down in the engine bay and keeps my intake manifold cooler! The colder you can get your intake charge the better off you'll be!
I also have a intake manifold heat shield. Its truely my favorite thing I've done yet! The manifold before would get so hot you couldn't even touch it, now I have no issue laying my hand on it.
I have relocated my IAT sensor. Its located on the 4th or 5th intake runner. You unscrew it & cap/plug the hole. Next, drill a single 1/2" hole in your air box, thread the sensor in and extend the wires. This allows the sensor to read true air temps vs the baking hot temps inside the intake manifold!
This is all I've done to my 23 year old jeep and she does pretty well on fuel consumption!

I am rebuilding the 4.0 this summer just because its over 300k. Its a stock rebuild with a 0 decked block, mopar .043 headgasket vs .051 stock. And a DIY hand ported head by me. I'll also be running the 68-200-4 comp cam which is slightly better then the 96-01 dual pattern cam..not by much though. The 87-95 cam is a single pattern and sucks quite honestly! The 96-01 dual pattern has way more power down low where its needed and holds it up to redline..our cam is like a hot rod cam, gradually getting more power in the RPM's.
Anyway point is I'll have a very tight quench..it'll be .049 to be exact. This will give a more complete fuel burn thus better efficeincy. The ported head is gasket matching and cleaning up flaws to help flow slightly, and the cam is only to put power where it should be! Down low in the RPM. The OEM replacement 96-01 cam is slightly over 200 bucks, the comp 68-200-4 is 200 and it comes with lifts so I chose the comp! The motor will be more efficient and make power where it should..all in all it should be more mileage!
I am also adding a E-fan at the same time. This again should help with mileage..the E-fan should help greatly. I'm also remaking my downpipe, it'll be 2.5" mandrel bent with no dent..this should help flow greatly! Haven't done it yet cause December got here and things got busy like always. My honest goal is to gain another 3 more mpg out of the jeep..the rebuild is happening cause of its age and mileage..so in the process I'm sprucing it up..But I think a steady 3 mpg with the motor, e-fan, and downpipe is reasonable! The E-fan will give me the biggest gains in town..I think its possible!
I'm hoping for 21mpg in town, and maybe 25 steady on the highway in a lifted Xj on 31's with a roof rack. Not to bad at all.
I drive my jeep to, its not always babied but when I do baby it, it repays me. I tend to leave a little early, drive a little slower..I set the cruise at 65-68mph, jump in the slow lane and listen to some tunes! When I'm trying, I'll match the speed of the big rig in front of me, Cb's are great for communicating. And I'll safely draft the rig at a safe distance! Doing this has gotten me 24-25mpg and is great practice if you do it safetly and the driver of the rig doesn't mind. I try to do this on my longer drives..

For maitenance. I run Bosch or Mobil 1 filters, never anything else..just preference! And I run 5W40 Rotella shell oil. Its got the zinc our flat tappet cam motors need. Its also got detergents and stuff in it, so it will litterally clean your motor out! The diesel guys over on the Cummins forum helped me decide! They send out test samples of there oil and such and they love Rotella so I chose it!
My first 2 oil changes I changed at 1500 miles, then 2000 miles. The first change my oil was disgustingly black, second was better. Now I change every 4000-4500 and its honey gold everytime! The diesel guys run this stuff to 6000-8000 miles but there oil filters are way bigger as well. So I stick with 4500 miles tops. Its a synthetic oil and cost less than Mobil1 which is what I used previously so I'm a happy camper, and my motor seems to be doing great. They carry this in 10W30 as well but me being in the desert, I stick with a 40 weight.
I run bosch fuel filters, fram cotton air filters, champion copper plugs, duralast wires, duralast cap and rotor. The plugs and fuel filter are changed every 25k, the cap and rotor changed every 50k, wires every 75k. Doing it this way gives me a system! Fuel filters get dirty quick, copper plugs last about 30k usually..so its dead on top of it!
Change wires for every 3 sets of plugs, change cap and rotor for every 2 sets of plugs! Doesn't cost much and I think its a big reason why my jeep gets the mileage it does. I've had this sucker since she had 103k on it, owned her for 3 1/2 years. Shes always treated me well!
K&N filters are good, but don't belong in jeeps. The flow more, filter less. Street cars aren't an issue but jeeps that see dirt are, dirt WILL get by the filter and you will find a fine thin layer of dust on the inside of your intake tube. So I stopped running them and the issue disappeared, I now stick with the Fram cotton air filters.

I followed alot of what Dino did. I didn't wrap up my intake box or pipe although I'm sure it helps and I may end up doing it at some point. Look for the intake manifold heat shield, and possibly wrap your header and relocate the IAT sensor. The colder you get the intake charge the better the mileage you'll get! Colder air is more efficient and more efficient = better mileage!
I will be ditching my cowl snorkel shortly for the hummer style intake! This will give me a ram air affect, but I'm doing it cause I'm going dual batteries and the airbox is where the second battery is going. So maybe that'll help mileage to..But its not hard to get 20/25 and say 22 combined at all!
 

bobDog

Expedition Leader
I vote XJ.
More simple, parts are easier to find. Plus, disconnect the swaybar and air down the tires and the thing will ride like a cadillac on the trail. Our KJ rides like *** in the dirt.
XJ.....X2.......Nothing better .......period. I've had three of em and every time I think of changing and go thru the pros and cons......its all pros.....XJ 4 dr. 4.0.
 

corprin

Adventurer
Too bad the KJ couldn't just donate its engine to the XJ.

When some fool decides to t-bone or rear end the KJ, that is EXACTLY what is going to happen. I can't justify making two perfectly working vehicles into one at this point.

Talked with the wife, and she agrees, the XJ will be better for the ExPo rig. Now, to get started, first trip is in May :D
 

Logans91XJ

Dirt Road Anthem
My thing is for the amount and extent of most people using 4 wheel drive you honestly don't need much more than good tires and a locker. Stock height will get you a lot of places you might not have thought of making. I would call up Dirk at DPG and have him get you going with a 3" OME lift for your XJ. Lock the rear and some good tires and you will be set. Don't go cheap on Shocks or Leafs. I would 10 pack on leaves and either OME or Bilstein Shocks.
 

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