Overlandtowater
Well-known member
yeah but its been awfully quite
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(Another) Forest Living Suburban Build Thread
- Thread starter Burb One
- Start date
Overlandtowater
Well-known member
agreed! Makes me want to get off my butt and work on mine!
Wow- thanks for being here-it really is telling when a company supports their products and also goes out of the way to be on forums and talk to potential users.
We put your axle less suspension on one of my good friends' home built trailers and loves it (trailer picture below)
BurbTwo is also looking for rear bump stops as we are putting some King 2.5 shocks on the rear of it (with the same design mounts I made for BurbOne)- not sure if we want to go to the hydro bumps on that truck- would love to have a set of the Timbren progressive bumps..........
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Timbren
Supporting Sponsor
Thank you for the kind words! We love being apart of this community and having the ability to talk to everyone, no matter what the opinion about our product is. The photos you shared are incredible and we are proud to know that our axle less suspension is being put to good use! Shoot me a direct message when you have the time and we can talk about BurbTwo ?
CrazyDrei
Space Monkey
Burb One,
It's pretty amazing where we find inspiration for our creations. You were looking to be comparable to Raptor with better payload, I was looking at 2017 2 door Rubicon for approach, departure and break over angles. Can't wait to see what you do next.
Overlandtowater
Well-known member
And I'm over here like oh I like that let me try that, oh wait no I like that, neverending struggle.
Well rear suspension definitely works. It's miles above what the QA1 coilovers can handle in the front, so testing was limited. Also need to adjust ride height a little bit when fully loaded, and take 75-100 psi out of the bump stops but holy cr*p it feels so composed at high speeds. Really is pushing me to get the front end together (control arms come this week). Hoping to get everything in ASAP, the front kings have been staring me in the face sitting in the garage for a few months now...
Here's it flexed on just a little bump on the trail.... limit straps weren't even close to taught yet- maybe another 2" before that. Tried to flex it as much as I could. It's amazing how much travel and flex there is. The other side is completely stuffed (down to 2" of travel left into the bump stop- which had too much psi- started it at it's highest rating of 300 psi so it's easy to bleed down and adjust). Even more impressive was the high speed stuff, but the limitations of the current front stopped me from trying anything. What was also interesting was another spot- Burb 2 would completely flex out. Burb One, looks like it was barely flexed, in the exact same position- and the truck body stayed completely level.
You can also see the start of some cubbies on each side in the rear bumper. One side will have an "onboard air" control panel and hold some coiled hoses, etc. Other side will probably house an onboard heater and some other stuff for when I eventually get a roof top tent or make a popup tent. Need to get some aluminum to make the exterior and a door, and clean it all up. I'll probably cut higher up by 1/2" or 3/4" on the quarter panel metal to allow for body movement and put some rubber strip on the sheet metal edge. Also need to cut a little higher to hide the dent I've had in the quarter panel that's been there for a decade... For now I welded it directly to the bumper and frame. Eventually, if I ever need to remove the bumper, I'll have to cut it on one of the sides and make it bolt on to the frame, or bumper. Ran out of time before this trip. Once all of this suspension stuff is done, I'm going to do a cosmetic overhaul and re-monta liner the truck since the first time my attention to detail was a little lacking.
Got some snow overnight.... view was beautiful
Alignment shop was complaining about the suspension so I decided to do my own alignment. I figure strings are good enough for my racecar (not pictured is a digital camber/ caster gauge) why not for the Burb. Even without having the toe plates to make sure caster was in spec and being in a "flat" parking lot, I swear I made it better than the alignment shop ever did... Drove perfect.
Here's it flexed on just a little bump on the trail.... limit straps weren't even close to taught yet- maybe another 2" before that. Tried to flex it as much as I could. It's amazing how much travel and flex there is. The other side is completely stuffed (down to 2" of travel left into the bump stop- which had too much psi- started it at it's highest rating of 300 psi so it's easy to bleed down and adjust). Even more impressive was the high speed stuff, but the limitations of the current front stopped me from trying anything. What was also interesting was another spot- Burb 2 would completely flex out. Burb One, looks like it was barely flexed, in the exact same position- and the truck body stayed completely level.
You can also see the start of some cubbies on each side in the rear bumper. One side will have an "onboard air" control panel and hold some coiled hoses, etc. Other side will probably house an onboard heater and some other stuff for when I eventually get a roof top tent or make a popup tent. Need to get some aluminum to make the exterior and a door, and clean it all up. I'll probably cut higher up by 1/2" or 3/4" on the quarter panel metal to allow for body movement and put some rubber strip on the sheet metal edge. Also need to cut a little higher to hide the dent I've had in the quarter panel that's been there for a decade... For now I welded it directly to the bumper and frame. Eventually, if I ever need to remove the bumper, I'll have to cut it on one of the sides and make it bolt on to the frame, or bumper. Ran out of time before this trip. Once all of this suspension stuff is done, I'm going to do a cosmetic overhaul and re-monta liner the truck since the first time my attention to detail was a little lacking.
Got some snow overnight.... view was beautiful
Alignment shop was complaining about the suspension so I decided to do my own alignment. I figure strings are good enough for my racecar (not pictured is a digital camber/ caster gauge) why not for the Burb. Even without having the toe plates to make sure caster was in spec and being in a "flat" parking lot, I swear I made it better than the alignment shop ever did... Drove perfect.
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@fl0w3n
Mixed bag.
If goal is for something like burb two and three, 1500 is still the right call. Coil 4 link rear, boxed frame and easy conversion to coilovers in front and bolt in conversion to 14bolt 2500 diffs. For the $ and time input hard to beat and I think is the way to go if starting out fresh and not wanting to get two extreme with the suspension.
If wanting even more travel- IE burb one now with the long travel stuff... I'm not sure. At this stage everything takes a lot of work whether 1500 or 2500 and a lot of welding. The fact that I was able to basically keep the rear geometry and link setup and just weld on coilovers mounts and bump stops pretty easily and get 13 inches of travel makes me lean towards 1500. If I had a 2500- I don't think I would have been happy with even a deaver leaf rear end and so it would have taken much more work on the rear to get to a link setup (Though since 2500 rear would be starting from scratch- would probably be better than the current setup on Burb One because I would have used longer arms, etc.)
I'm also not convinced a 2500 frame is actually stronger than a 1500 frame where it matters for off road use.. I took a bunch of measurements on a friends 2500 8.1 yukon xl, and I couldn't find where the frame was much thicker than the 1500, and to my surprise it was c channel! Though the 1500 frame is not as tall- it is fully boxed all the way down. Of course, there's open debate which is actually better because a boxed frame may have a tendency to crack over a c-channel. In any case- I don't think either 1500 or 2500 frames are sufficient for extreme abuse- and is why I've been plating burb one's frame and adding reinforcement where in my opinion it needs it (based on some frame file cad drawings I got ahold of and have been playing with).
In the end my thoughts are 1) run what you got- differences in long run are probably marginal/ ups and downs to each 2) If buying- whatever you can find a nicer example of 3) 1500's are cheaper and easier to get to a point that works really well ala where Burb Two and Burb Three are at (35's, 2500 diffs, 6 inch lift, coilovers in front, and Spohn arms/ nice shocks in rear). You'll go pretty much anywhere with that (and reliably).
Also a note- other mods- tie rods, upper control arms, pitman/idler arms, etc. also should be upgraded but those deficiencies are shared between 1500 and 2500 so a wash.
Hope that helps!!!
Mixed bag.
If goal is for something like burb two and three, 1500 is still the right call. Coil 4 link rear, boxed frame and easy conversion to coilovers in front and bolt in conversion to 14bolt 2500 diffs. For the $ and time input hard to beat and I think is the way to go if starting out fresh and not wanting to get two extreme with the suspension.
If wanting even more travel- IE burb one now with the long travel stuff... I'm not sure. At this stage everything takes a lot of work whether 1500 or 2500 and a lot of welding. The fact that I was able to basically keep the rear geometry and link setup and just weld on coilovers mounts and bump stops pretty easily and get 13 inches of travel makes me lean towards 1500. If I had a 2500- I don't think I would have been happy with even a deaver leaf rear end and so it would have taken much more work on the rear to get to a link setup (Though since 2500 rear would be starting from scratch- would probably be better than the current setup on Burb One because I would have used longer arms, etc.)
I'm also not convinced a 2500 frame is actually stronger than a 1500 frame where it matters for off road use.. I took a bunch of measurements on a friends 2500 8.1 yukon xl, and I couldn't find where the frame was much thicker than the 1500, and to my surprise it was c channel! Though the 1500 frame is not as tall- it is fully boxed all the way down. Of course, there's open debate which is actually better because a boxed frame may have a tendency to crack over a c-channel. In any case- I don't think either 1500 or 2500 frames are sufficient for extreme abuse- and is why I've been plating burb one's frame and adding reinforcement where in my opinion it needs it (based on some frame file cad drawings I got ahold of and have been playing with).
In the end my thoughts are 1) run what you got- differences in long run are probably marginal/ ups and downs to each 2) If buying- whatever you can find a nicer example of 3) 1500's are cheaper and easier to get to a point that works really well ala where Burb Two and Burb Three are at (35's, 2500 diffs, 6 inch lift, coilovers in front, and Spohn arms/ nice shocks in rear). You'll go pretty much anywhere with that (and reliably).
Also a note- other mods- tie rods, upper control arms, pitman/idler arms, etc. also should be upgraded but those deficiencies are shared between 1500 and 2500 so a wash.
Hope that helps!!!
All ready for paint!!! (Not really- but majority of the work is done other than fulling welding the bushings which may need some edits based on mockup on the truck)
I've been debating on taking out the lift in the front- since the long travel kit theoretically should add 3-4 inches. However, for the types of trails we do- ground clearance is key. Also without the lift kit- it's back to a 1500 diff....
Because of that- I'm keeping the diff drop kit in the front(!!!!). Even though "long travel" trucks are set up for low COG- My use will never be to power slide the truck or do some crazy stuff- it's just to go a little faster in the nasty stuff AND more importantly be more reliable (no more ball joints to worry about, control arms to bend, etc. etc.). The trade off for the ground clearance will be a higher COG than ideal for a long travel truck- but this isn't that- it's a Expo rig/ trail rig that just happens to have decent travel. Ground clearance is more important- as is COG but my plan is to have the ride height of the truck set really low- essentially have a ride height of 7 inches over stock-I had the RC lift at 5 inches over stock). The COG should be good for my use and I should have 13-14 inches actual travel in the front (bumped and strapped) to match the 13 inches in the rear. From my initial measurements and mock up- the front should have 6+ inches of up travel and 7 inches of down travel (This ratio will be based on where I set ride height), which should be perfect.
With that- I will have to fab a few things.
1) cut off all the upper control arm mounts, plate frame, and weld on long travel kit shock/ control arm mounts and make engine cross brace
2) reengineer/ recreate the RC diff drop brackets in 1/4 . I also plan on adding A) two connecting tubes between the front and rear drop brackets at the lower control arm mounts (This will also let me create a skid plate that goes across the entire front diff) B) adding two connecting tubes from the front drop bracket up to the frame where the front winch mount is (will let me also create a single huge skid plate/ splash shield for the front) C) replacing the thin wall kicker bars on the rear drop bracket that came with the RC kit with stronger tube and making stronger mounts.
3) Modify long travel spindle to locate the tie rod higher on the spindle.
4) Modify upper control arm to extend 3 inches lower to meet the upper uniball on spindle.
5) Modify lower control arm to adjust coilover height.
6) Figure out hydro bumps and limit straps.
7) Order RCV Axles (unfortunately $)
I'm back in school now after break, so we'll see how my progress goes over the next few months..... probably going to be a long haul.
I've been debating on taking out the lift in the front- since the long travel kit theoretically should add 3-4 inches. However, for the types of trails we do- ground clearance is key. Also without the lift kit- it's back to a 1500 diff....
Because of that- I'm keeping the diff drop kit in the front(!!!!). Even though "long travel" trucks are set up for low COG- My use will never be to power slide the truck or do some crazy stuff- it's just to go a little faster in the nasty stuff AND more importantly be more reliable (no more ball joints to worry about, control arms to bend, etc. etc.). The trade off for the ground clearance will be a higher COG than ideal for a long travel truck- but this isn't that- it's a Expo rig/ trail rig that just happens to have decent travel. Ground clearance is more important- as is COG but my plan is to have the ride height of the truck set really low- essentially have a ride height of 7 inches over stock-I had the RC lift at 5 inches over stock). The COG should be good for my use and I should have 13-14 inches actual travel in the front (bumped and strapped) to match the 13 inches in the rear. From my initial measurements and mock up- the front should have 6+ inches of up travel and 7 inches of down travel (This ratio will be based on where I set ride height), which should be perfect.
With that- I will have to fab a few things.
1) cut off all the upper control arm mounts, plate frame, and weld on long travel kit shock/ control arm mounts and make engine cross brace
2) reengineer/ recreate the RC diff drop brackets in 1/4 . I also plan on adding A) two connecting tubes between the front and rear drop brackets at the lower control arm mounts (This will also let me create a skid plate that goes across the entire front diff) B) adding two connecting tubes from the front drop bracket up to the frame where the front winch mount is (will let me also create a single huge skid plate/ splash shield for the front) C) replacing the thin wall kicker bars on the rear drop bracket that came with the RC kit with stronger tube and making stronger mounts.
3) Modify long travel spindle to locate the tie rod higher on the spindle.
4) Modify upper control arm to extend 3 inches lower to meet the upper uniball on spindle.
5) Modify lower control arm to adjust coilover height.
6) Figure out hydro bumps and limit straps.
7) Order RCV Axles (unfortunately $)
I'm back in school now after break, so we'll see how my progress goes over the next few months..... probably going to be a long haul.
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Just curious, and thanks for the info. I've sold off my 2500 Burb, but I may get another one in the future if it's an 8.1 or I swap a Duramax in.
I just figured for all the effort of swapping, why not start with the axles and front diff you want, as well as get a beefier transmission to go with it. However, you made some interesting points on the frame. I figured the linked 1500 rear might have something to do with it, and of course price and availability came into play as well. Just wanted to see if there was anything else I was missing.
