Aramid rope vs Amsteel Blue vs "Plasma"

[katuah]

Hi all;

I'm trying to get this XD9000 installed and prepped, and realized today that the old wire rope is not looking too good. I don't particularly like wire anyway, so replacing it with synthetic was already on my list, but... I can't afford top of the line synthetics right now (or really, in the immediately foreseeable future!). I want to put on 3/8 at between 75'-85'. I did some checking around and came up with these options:

-- Amsteel Blue at 217.54 with hook (no option for safety thimble)
-- JeepSwag Aramid (Technora?) at 231.12 with hook, 246.23 with safety thimble
-- ASR Offroad "Plasma" rope (UHMWPE) at 212.70 with hook (special, no option for thimble)

I've read that the Technora could be better due to it's heat tolerance, and I like the safety thimbles. Other than that, does anyone have any real-world experience with either the Aramid/Technora or the Plasma rope?

 

[pugslyyy]

Excellent, any type of synthetic winchline will beat wire any day of the week!

Have you talked with the guys at Viking Offroad? Big fan of them and their products, I've been using them for many years now.
http://www.vikingoffroad.com/categories/Recovery-Gear/Winchlines/

Also, consider getting a shorter line and adding an extension. Two shorter lines gives you many more options than one long one.

 

[mrchips]

http://www.4wd.com/Jeep-Winches-Jee....aspx?t_c=18&t_s=124&t_pt=5157&t_pn=GRT102152

Here is a Viking line with no hook just use a descent shackle and you are set, and the price is great.

 

[Jr_Explorer]

Having worked with aramids I'd personally shy away from them. They are THE most susceptible to damage from UV and/or abrasion (grit in the fibers). Unless you are recovering a vehicle with a campfire between the it and the winch I don't think temp tolerance is going to come into play too much.

 

[fishEH]

http://www.4wd.com/Jeep-Winches-Jee....aspx?t_c=18&t_s=124&t_pt=5157&t_pn=GRT102152

Here is a Viking line with no hook just use a descent shackle and you are set, and the price is great.

That price is steep considering its just Amsteel with a regular thimble, and its 5/16". You're paying strictly for the Viking name there.

Oh, and heat resistance isn't for the campfire, its for the heat on the winch spool.

 

[katuah]

Having worked with aramids I'd personally shy away from them. They are THE most susceptible to damage from UV and/or abrasion (grit in the fibers). Unless you are recovering a vehicle with a campfire between the it and the winch I don't think temp tolerance is going to come into play too much.

After seeing this I went and did some further research on Technora/aramid. West Marine had some of the best info. UV resistance is lower, and fibers not as durable. However, the onset of heat issues is at 150 degrees for Amsteel Blue, vs. 300 degrees for Technora. Given that I intend to be traveling in the SW US deserts, where air temps can easily reach 110, it would not take much braking to heat the drum another 40 degrees. I'd like to see a curve of the strength dropoff in heat.... also, still looking for info on "plasma" rope.

 

[slomatt]

One downside of Technora is that it can't handle as tight of a bend as SK75 (Dyneema/Amsteel) can. The sheeve diameter of Technora is 16:1 compared to 8:1 for SK75, assuming a 3/8" rope this works out to minimum bends of 8" and 4" respectively before strength is significantly effected. When you consider that the average diameter of a winch drum or a snatch block is about 4" this could be a problem.

The issue of temperature based degradation is definitely a concern because SK75 starts to degrade around 120 degrees and melts at 300 degrees. From what I've read the degradation is temporary and reverts when the temperature drops. I'm not personally concerned with the ambient air temperature causing issues, but winching out will cause very high drum temperatures in most winches which could be a concern. Interestingly someone performed an experiment where SK75 was put on a hot surface and less than half the thickness of the rope warmed up indicating that it is not a good temperature conductor and even if the winch drum gets hot the heat should not make it completely through the first layer of rope.

So for what it's worth, when I was choosing between Technora and Dyneema last year I ultimately decided that the better sheeve diameter and UV stability of the Dyneema were more important to me than the better temperature handling of the Technora.

http://forum.ih8mud.com/winching-recovery/460954-technora.html
http://centraloverland.com/2011/04/get-to-know-your-synthetic-ropes/

- Matt

 

[Stumpalump]

For those that don't think heat is a big issue then think again. I watched my synthetic line melt away and snap like it was made of wax during a pull. When road grime, dust and dirt impregnates the lines fibers it creates a lot of friction as the line gets tight. This friction is enough heat to melt the fibers and the break the line. Any place in the line that has a bend will create its own heat when the winch starts to pull hard and with a tiny amount of abrasive dust or dirt in it the problem gets worse. The warm line and abrasive dirt just melt together causing it it to break. You can see the melted fibers when synthetic breaks.

So what to do..?. I put steel cable back on the heavy rig that broke the synthetic that also sits in the sun but on the garaged jeep I keep the Amsteel as clean as I can and its out of the sun on most days. On a pull I load the line slow with winch control and give it resting time before the hardest part of the pull to let the fibers cool. Master pull makes the only covered synthetic that I would call good because it keeps the dirt out. The rest is prone to friction melting so keep this in mind as you start to pull and do it slow with resting time as the strain is increasing.

 

[Eventhough]

SK75 starts to lose strength at 150 deg F but gains it back when it cools. Your concern there is spooling out under load, as if you were lowering a vehicle down a hill and they were inop, which doesn't happen very often at all. Plasma is good, usually costs a bit more.

 

[Master-Pull]

FYI, we'll have safety thimbles back in stock pretty soon, and can equip the Amsteel Blue ropes with them. Sometime in the next week or so I've been told.

 

[spikemd]

SK75 starts to lose strength at 150 deg F but gains it back when it cools. Your concern there is spooling out under load, as if you were lowering a vehicle down a hill and they were inop, which doesn't happen very often at all. Plasma is good, usually costs a bit more.

150 degrees is kinda scary. When we are down in Death Valley, it is consistently above 100. Add some direct sunlight then some friction... and you are over 150 degrees in no time. As much as I want to swap my cable for synthetic, I will wait for the next generation.

 

[Master-Pull]

150 degrees is kinda scary. When we are down in Death Valley, it is consistently above 100. Add some direct sunlight then some friction... and you are over 150 degrees in no time. As much as I want to swap my cable for synthetic, I will wait for the next generation.

You could also look at the Superline, and Superline XD. Working temp range is -238F to 176F, and melting point begins at 291F. I don't have the working range of the other lines in front of me to compare though.

-Daren

 

[opie]

Sunlight will not have a negative effect on the line as the light blue color will reflect most of the rays. It wont "absorb" heat that way.

Ambient temps will play a role, strength loss starts at 150 degrees with an 8% reduction in strength. Id wager if its that hot out, there are some bigger issues to deal with!!

The 8% doesn't even start to cut into the standard 10% derate most place on the line due to the splice. Even though Samson states that the numbers they have derived for Amsteel Blue are on spliced line. So the 10% reduction at the get go is not necessary.

That being said... there is nothing wrong with wire rope. Either works as long as one works within the limitations of the material.

 

[UnfrozenCaveman]

I've ended up with three brand spankin' new wire ropes on my X9 over the past eight years...you guys keep replacing them with that synthetic stuff okay

 

[bfdiesel]

Sunlight will not have a negative effect on the line as the light blue color will reflect most of the rays. It wont "absorb" heat that way.

Ambient temps will play a role, strength loss starts at 150 degrees with an 8% reduction in strength. Id wager if its that hot out, there are some bigger issues to deal with!!

The 8% doesn't even start to cut into the standard 10% derate most place on the line due to the splice. Even though Samson states that the numbers they have derived for Amsteel Blue are on spliced line. So the 10% reduction at the get go is not necessary.

That being said... there is nothing wrong with wire rope. Either works as long as one works within the limitations of the material.

The rope may not soak up the rays but the metal around it will be. Even where I am at the metal out in the sun will burn you.