ARB line routing (from inside the cab)

[rusty_tlc]

I think you need to replace your o-rings. You shouldn't get oil back through the solenoid.

When will I learn not to post to threads until I've read the whole thing!

I do not believe it is normal for ARB's to lose oil. Mine didn't lose any until they were 8 or 9 year's old. Then it was minimal enough that I elected to wait until I had other problems before I had the O-Rings replaced.

On the subject of the ARB compressor. If I had and extra $150 laying around I would replace the ARB in the 40 with the smaller low capicity compressor. The "heavy duty" compressor requires 40 Amps, so it needs a relay, which is a point of failure, yet it is dismall at anything but acuating the ARB lockers. The smaller compressor requires 15 Amps, which can be supplied directly through a switch. And will still supply enough pressure and volume to actuate two lockers.

Don't get me wrong, the relay that came with my heavy duty ARB compressor lasted 10 years. So I have no complaints. But it failed at a bad time.

I am just finishing up the ARB install on my UZJ100, I mounted the small compressor behind the air box. It mounts up easily in that location. If I weren't full of fajitas and beer I'd go down and take a picture. :wings:

I guess the bottom line is IMHO forget the "Heavy Duty" ARB, it really isn't worth the extra effort required to mount and wire it.


PS: And I would never locate a compressor in the cabin, to much heat and noise generated.

 

[Brian894x4]

PS: And I would never locate a compressor in the cabin, to much heat and noise generated.

Well, if you're going to install a "real" compressor, which means anything bigger than the ARB compressor or really any compressor for that matter on the 80, where else...but inside the cab..can you mount it? I'm talking basically a compressor system for airing up tires.

I do wish I would have thought this through more, because I would have gone mini-ARB in the engine compartment (still probably will) and something bigger for airing up tires in the back. But I think this will still work for emergencies, which is really what I'm after.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...I guess the bottom line is IMHO forget the "Heavy Duty" ARB, it really isn't worth the extra effort required to mount and wire it...

I don't think the old full-size compressor has really been considered "heavy-duty", while it has been a great compressor for the last 10 years, it is old technology, it was state of the art then, but now its time for something bigger and better.

I repeat myself
Keep an eye out for the new ARB compressor, it has over double the volume of the older RDCKA (2.18 CFM versus 1.00 CFM @ 29psi).. .
Oh yeah, double the duty cycle too


On the subject of airing up tires with the ARB compressors... I have long been an advocate of NOT using this as your primary source of tire air, etc. CO2, engine driven compressors, hi-end electrics, are all much more suited for the high volume needs. IMO the ideal setup for those with Air Lockers, is to have the ARB compressor ONLY as air supply for locker operation, and then use their other system for tire's, tools, etc. However, plumb BOTH systems to be used in case of failure of the other. Easy to do!

In my rigs, I run the ARB compressors (RDCKA's for the time being) and I have CO2 mounts for bottles. The CO2 is far more practical both in terms of time and expense than other options, and it is somewhat portable meaning I can take it up the trail or into camp with me if needed. In the instance the CO2 system is "out of order" (like when it froze on my last winter in So. Utah), I can still use the ARB setup for tire inflation... and if the ARB compressor were to fail, a simple adapter fitting (male-male) allows me to charge my ARB compressor with CO2, and still use the ARB solenoids to run the lockers

All this said, new ARB offerings might make a single dual purpose compressor an option. The replacement for the RDCKA has twice the volume output and twice the duty cycle, pretty impressive as the RDCKA was "ok" for airing up tires in the past... I guess this new one will be "good", I'll let you know in a week

There is always the option to use a non-ARB air source to run the lockers. However, I have found in most cases, by the time you buy the necissary parts, wiring, switches, etc... you could have just purchased the cheaper ARB compact comp. and had a nice tucked away stand-alone system to run the ARB's only. Keep in mind if you do plan to use your other source, you need to regulate the air to the Air Locker specs (under 85 psi), and come up with your own harness, and pressure switch as these are always included with ARB's compressor setups (also available as parts).

Sorry for the long one...

 

[rusty_tlc]

Well, if you're going to install a "real" compressor, which means anything bigger than the ARB compressor or really any compressor for that matter on the 80, where else...but inside the cab..can you mount it? I'm talking basically a compressor system for airing up tires.

I do wish I would have thought this through more, because I would have gone mini-ARB in the engine compartment (still probably will) and something bigger for airing up tires in the back. But I think this will still work for emergencies, which is really what I'm after.

If I were inclined to have a real compressor in my 100 I'd go with a YORK or equivelent under the hood mechanically driven compressor. Electric compressors are inefficient IMHO. Thats why I opted for CO2 in my crawler, it did not have any free pullys for another belt driven accesory.
Since I'm already set up with CO2 I don't see the need to spend more on another system in the 100, which is one reason I went with CO2 in the first place.

 

[Brian894x4]

Ya, you were all right, the ARB sucks for airing up tires. I rediscovered that fact today at the beach.

Back to the drawing board. The C02 tanks sound really intriquing. But they're kind of pricey. Wouldn't be so hard to swallow if I didn't by this stupid ARB compressor. Maybe if I can at least get the stupid thing mounted to work as intended to fire the lockers, I can justify investing in an all new air system of some kind.

Where do you get those things charged up anyway?

As for electric compressors, anyone have any recommendations? Something in the $200 range maybe?

 

[Grim Reaper]

As for electric compressors, anyone have any recommendations? Something in the $200 range maybe?

Best bang for the buck. Buy four for $200
http://www.gearinstalls.com/pepboys.htm

this is the same compressor as one of the Viair compressor. It just has a cosmetic square body.
http://www.viaircorp.com/400h.html
Costco carries them. Search the forum...their has been a lot of discussion on these.

I am thrilled with mine I can air up all 4 of my 33's back up in 15 minutes.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...The C02 tanks sound really intriquing. But they're kind of pricey...

They are actually cheaper than any of the other compressor options, I have a Al. 5lb, and steel 10 & 15lb'ers... all use the same regulator. I've never paid more than $50 for the tanks (lots of used ones available), and used rebuilt regs. from our local CO2 provider sell for $50. Add a hose and a mount and you can be into one for ~$150.

Contact you local welding outfits, CO2 providers, fire extinguisher shops, and home-brew beer outfits, they should have some leads for you.

 

[Brian894x4]

Very interesting. Even if I went with the full meal deal with the Powertank, I think I'm sold.

Ah...what was I thinking? Time to rip out this complicated air compressor set up and start over.

I think what I'm going to do is use the full size ARB with the Slee kit for locker firing and fit an air connection to utilize it as a back up air source. The C02 tank sure does seem like a lot batter set up for primary air. I can handle no noise and airing up tires in a matter of seconds instead half an hour.

 

[Mlachica]

Very interesting. Even if I went with the full meal deal with the Powertank, I think I'm sold.

Ah...what was I thinking? Time to rip out this complicated air compressor set up and start over.

I think what I'm going to do is use the full size ARB with the Slee kit for locker firing and fit an air connection to utilize it as a back up air source. The C02 tank sure does seem like a lot batter set up for primary air. I can handle no noise and airing up tires in a matter of seconds instead half an hour.

What about a york air compressor? Belt driven, and takes no storage space. It fits with dual batteries as well. This is what I'm leaning towards as opposed to the extreme aire that I have.

 

[Brian894x4]

I think the York makes more sense for someone who airs up A LOT...or does the air tool thing alot.

I don't, and set up is a little more complicated and expensive than I want to deal with. but with Slee's bracket/pulley, it's definately a viable option for many and a cool one!

 

[DaveInDenver]

Ah...what was I thinking? Time to rip out this complicated air compressor set up and start over.

This comes up a lot, CO2 vs. compressor. There is little argument that a CO2 system works great, but you are limited to a large extent by size and volume. They take up quite a bit of space and will eventually run out, leaving you with an empty tank. Awesome for day trips or crawlers, not so good for long range travel. I have the MV-50 compressor that Grim mentioned, best value going in compressor I think. I only run 33" tires, but total for all 4 is a sipped can of barley pop or so.

Just for reference, I actually did some back of the napkin calculations once.

A basic Powertank, the 10 lbs system is overall about 24" tall and about 8" around. It weighs a bit more than 25 lbs full. It's around $20 to refill the tanks, give or take.

CO2 has a molar mass of 44 and 1 lbs is about 450 grams, so that means each pound of CO2 has about 10.3 mols of gas (hey, a real use for the ideal gas law, PV=nRT, from chem class!). So, at room temp, a 10 lbs Powertank will have 103 mols of gas, which means it'll have 88 scf of CO2. This checks out with my thermodynamic book, it says 1 lbs of CO2 solid or gas sublimes into 8.741 scf of gas. So if you get exactly 10 lbs, you will have exactly 87.41 cubic feet of gas at room temp.

So you can calculate how it's gonna be used up. A 33x9.50 tire with a 15" rim has something like 3 cubic feet of volume. At 80F, a 3 cu-ft volume at 25 psi has 5.9 mol of gas. At the same temp and volume, a tire at 35 psi has 8.1 mols of gas, so each 10 psi fill up takes ~2 mols of gas. So I figure a 10 lbs CO2 tank will air up about three dozen 33x9.50" tires per fill-up (figuring that each air up might be 10, 15 or 20 psi, so I guessed the average air up is 15 psi or say ~3 mols of gas). How does this jive with the Powertank estimates?

The MV-50 I have weighs about 9 lbs. In it's bag I guess it's about 16" wide, maybe 8" deep and 12" tall. I paid $25 for mine, but they go about $50. Mine's lasted two years now, probably 2 dozen air ups after runs (say about 100 tires so far), I dunno. Figure in a case of beer, I'm still money ahead. Lost time taking 20 minutes vs. 4 for a CO2 tank, at my pay rate that's not significant. ;-)

 

[cruiseroutfit]

This comes up a lot, CO2 vs. compressor. There is little argument that a CO2 system works great, but you are limited to a large extent by size and volume. They take up quite a bit of space and will eventually run out, leaving you with an empty tank. Awesome for day trips or crawlers, not so good for long range travel. I have the MV-50 compressor that Grim mentioned, best value going in compressor I think. I only run 33" tires, but total for all 4 is a sipped can of barley pop or so.

Great observations, and obviously the MV-50 is a perfect fit for your needs... We tested one of those when they very first came out versus the ARB RDCKA, it was faster, but not by much... not enough to have an Air Locker user purchase the MV-50 in addition to an RDCKA for example, there was just very little gain. With the new ARB compressor, it will likely beat the MV-50 based on the fact it is twice as fast as the older unit... so once again for those with air lockers, the ARB makes more sense IMO.

Some pros you get with the CO2:
Air tools, smaller air compressors (RDCKA, MV50, etc) don't have a hope there.
Portable, I have pulled the CO2 tank off my rig to haul it back to someone elses stranded rig countless times, with a mounted unit you have to take the vehicle. I guess the MV50 could be attached to their vehicle?
Cheap to fill, at least in my local, I never pay more than $10 for a fill... and one fill will last for 5-10 wheeling trip air-ups, depending on where I've aired down to.

Like many other vehicle mods, there is not a single right answer, for me the CO2 is the ideal solution, with the ARB compressor as my backup and primary Air Locker source. I have sold/installed/fabbed York setups on different Cruisers over the years, another great option for sure. We ran a Kilby york system on the UROC buggy, it was awesome to swap tires, t-cases, whatever... fast! BUT the engine has to be running... not always an option, and not always conveinient. If I were to do anything besides the CO2, it would be a York, however in my FJ40 the dual batteries and PS make little room for a York

At the end of the day there are plenty of choices

 

[Brian894x4]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know who has the best deal on a 10lb powertank. Just the tank, regulator and hose...no kit or anything?

 

[DaveInDenver]

With the new ARB compressor, it will likely beat the MV-50 based on the fact it is twice as fast as the older unit... so once again for those with air lockers, the ARB makes more sense IMO.

True, dat, I've heard that the new ARB compressors are supposed to be the bee's knees. The MV-50 is far from shop compressor fast, but it's not bad. Takes about 5 minutes per tire for me. It would probably start to be more of an issue maybe at 35" or 37" tires, I dunno.

Portable, I have pulled the CO2 tank off my rig to haul it back to someone elses stranded rig countless times, with a mounted unit you have to take the vehicle. I guess the MV50 could be attached to their vehicle?

The MV-50 I have is portable. Little carry bag, battery clips, etc. Portability is obviously the downside of a York, though. You nailed it, there is no right system. The argument always made is CO2 is good for air tools, which is certainly possible to do. But I just never saw it as a benefit, since I don't carry air tools with me and if I did it would not be a substitute for hand tools that I already carry. So it gets down to space and weight. Different build goals for different people, nothing more or less. I don't mind using the hand tools and waiting for my compressor to fill the tires if my tool kit is small and saves some weight. Goodness knows I carry (beer) plenty of other junk (beer) with me in that saved space (beer)!

 

[Brian894x4]

As someone who's trying to decide which air solution to go for, what attracts me to C02 is the fact that I can completely air up 4 tires in near silence in matter of about 2 minutes. One full tank, about the size of a large fire extinquisher, but lighter, can air up 4 tires about 5-10 times from what I'm reading. I can't imagine ever needing it more than once per trip, since I rarely air down, but the extra times could come in handy.

It has has the advantage of being able to reseat a bead, which is critical and I doubt I'd ever have the bravo to do the starter fluid on fire method.

Plus that much air and that much power has other uses and advantages.

To me, I don't want to be sitting there with a compressor for 15-30 minutes, as time is very valuable, but the full size ARB can still double as a back up air source.

Space is definately a major concern, shockingly enough. I'm fast running out of space in my 80 and I haven't even loaded her for a fully stocked trip yet. But I figured I'd remove my 2 gallon air tank and could replace it with a 10lb Co2 bottle and have no net loss of cargo space.

The only problem now is swallowing the price. I've seen some cheap Powertank knock offs out there, including on ebay. Anyone see any reason not to go the knock off route?