ARB's on 02 F-350

[fifty]

I am searching for what to do with my axles...I have a de duallied 2002 F-350 with a 2008 front axle...

So thats a D80 in the rear, and a D60 in the front. The rear had a ford LS in it, but it seems to have lost its edge...

I am running 37 inch tires on it, which makes me weary of using the trutrac front and rear. I have heard they dont really recommend going over 33 inch tires.

I was thinking going with ARB's as I have an air tank and compressor already (rear air bags)

The only bad thing I have heard about ARB's is they can burn out the compressor if you use them for long periods of time. Which I am hoping will be moot with the air tank...How much PSI does it take to run a set?

The only other thing is, its having an open dif until you hit the locker...I dont know if its just because of my personal, I dont know...quirk or what ever, but I like the idea of having a LS back there...At least I do with my cars...no switch to throw...its just there when you need it.

I dont tow much weight (reason for de duallying the truck), I do go to the snow a bunch, paved icy roads, snow on the roads and back trails in the snow... I also like roads that are fire roads, some times they are muddy, sometimes washed out etc. The truck is also a daily driver for now...(until I get a commuter to retire this thing to play status only)

Its a big truck, dont do any "wheeling" per say.

Trying to see what else is important. 350Hp, 850 ft/lbs of torque, automatic...4.10 gears.... lead foot...

Can anyone see a problem with the ARB's where I might wish I went with something else?

 

[chadsin]

What about OX lockers? Just pull a cable and they lock.

 

[FellowTraveler]

Arb

I have front ARB in my K2500 Burb for many, many years now and it always works flawlessly the compressor does not run except when I first power it up to use locker or momentarily to keep pressure up to whatever factory setting is.

I'd suspect if a compressor runs constantly and fails something else is wrong like a leaking carrier "O" rings, line, fittings or purge valve if you use one.

Overall I say "real ARB" lockers work!

 

[Karma]

I am searching for what to do with my axles...I have a de duallied 2002 F-350 with a 2008 front axle...

So thats a D80 in the rear, and a D60 in the front. The rear had a ford LS in it, but it seems to have lost its edge...

I am running 37 inch tires on it, which makes me weary of using the trutrac front and rear. I have heard they dont really recommend going over 33 inch tires.

I was thinking going with ARB's as I have an air tank and compressor already (rear air bags)

The only bad thing I have heard about ARB's is they can burn out the compressor if you use them for long periods of time. Which I am hoping will be moot with the air tank...How much PSI does it take to run a set?

The only other thing is, its having an open dif until you hit the locker...I dont know if its just because of my personal, I dont know...quirk or what ever, but I like the idea of having a LS back there...At least I do with my cars...no switch to throw...its just there when you need it.

I dont tow much weight (reason for de duallying the truck), I do go to the snow a bunch, paved icy roads, snow on the roads and back trails in the snow... I also like roads that are fire roads, some times they are muddy, sometimes washed out etc. The truck is also a daily driver for now...(until I get a commuter to retire this thing to play status only)

Its a big truck, dont do any "wheeling" per say.

Trying to see what else is important. 350Hp, 850 ft/lbs of torque, automatic...4.10 gears.... lead foot...

Can anyone see a problem with the ARB's where I might wish I went with something else?

HI,
I'm sure you have researched ARB's. You know that they are probably the most respected lockers on the planet. I have had ARB's front and rear on my '89 Jeep YJ for about 10 years. This vehicle is so different from your truck that I'm not sure anything I say is valid. I will give my impressions of ARB on my Jeep which has a stock 258 engine, manual transmission (NV 3550), and a Tera Low transfer case. Diff gearing is 3.55.

First, my ARB's have been totally reliable. As for the compressor, I have the larger ARB unit mounted under the hood. I have been on trails where the compressor was enabled literally all day with no problems at all. Remember, when the compressor runs, it does so for only a few seconds. The only time it runs longer is if you sever an air line. I have done this once and it was totally my fault. The compressor did not suffer. I suggest that you buy an ARB air line repair kit. Really, it was not a big deal.

From your description, your play yard is very different than mine. I do live in the New Mexico mountains at 5600 feet and we get significant snow, I don't usually play in it. I'm just not a snow type of guy. I hate it actually. If I drive west, I'm very soon in serious snow. If I go east a few miles I drop down to high desert. Most of my Jeep activity is in very rough desert country. I spend as much time as possible in Utah and the Moab area. Here, lockers really are essential. Otherwise, one would not get very far.

The beauty of the ARB system is its instant response to the controls. For example, you will discover that when the front is locked, steering turns to ********. If you are on loose dirt or sand, you will simply go straight. So, the technique is to unlock the front momentarily. Then when you are headed in the right direction, relock. With the ARB's the response to the lock/unlock switch is very quick and handy. I think this is the biggest advantage the ARB's have over any of its competitors. Note also that the ARB cab mounted switches are properly illuminated and give a definitive indication if the compressor, and either locker is engaged. This is nice.

BTW, I have had limited slips in both front and rear. I found them to be essentially useless for the type of terrain I tend to frequent. I do think that lockers are the hard core solution and limited slips are more for casual use. ARB's are expensive and don't forget the installation costs. I installed my own. You have to decide if the ARB's are worth the money.

Beyond these things I can't say much. I think the ARB system is very refined and time tested. I can't imagine that you would not be very happy. You should give ARB a call and discuss your situation with them. I have found them to be very helpful.

Sparky

 

[fifty]

What about OX lockers? Just pull a cable and they lock.

I thought about that, but I decided that I can hit a button easier than pull a cable... I also considered the ECTED/e-locker thingy, but I heard they disintegrate with heavy trucks and big tires...

Sparky, great write up. As for the install, my buddy is a ford mechanic and I would be paying him beer for the install.

I have a question about how the ARB's work. If I run a tank, and the tank is pressurized, will that keep it locked, or do they need a constant flow (like an air tool) This is mostly because I am just trying to figure out how I will do plumbing. I am probably going to go the ARB route (in december because parts is still $$$)

Thanks all for the help and the reviews.

 

[Karma]

HI fifty,
The ARB air system is closed. It only uses a puff of air to pressurize the air line when the locker is engaged and when disengaged, the air in the line is released to the world. So, unless there is an air leak, the system normally remains closed and passive. The air storage tank built into the compressor is tiny because it can be.

The instructions that come with the locker mentions using a non-ARB air system. I believe the pressures are in the 90 PSI range.

Sparky

 

[Buliwyf]

Well there are a few setups that work for the Superduty. I'm not sure what is available for the Dana80. But your front Dana 60 has alot of options. I'm more familiar with the 10.25" and Dana 60 axles. I haven't toyed with a Dana 80 ever.

My favorite setup, especially for snowy areas (with heavy fullsize auto trans Superduties) is a Detroit locker in the rear and an open diff up front. Or maybe an Ox locker in the front that would be left open allmost all the time, and all the time in slick conditions.

I haven't noticed anything weird about having the real Detroit lockers in Ford Superduties. They're just too heavy to care. As long as you have good tires and responsible driving habits in slick conditions they've been by far my favorite setup in the rear. Especially since they're working all the time. They make weird clicking noises in slow turns, but I kinda like that. The Detroit Truetrac isn't going to hold up to 37" tires. I helped pull a shattered Truetrac out of a Mustang a couple years ago, I'm not really impressed.

The Detroit is locked in 24/7. It unlocks when ever a wheel turns faster than the driveshaft or diff carrier. In a turn the outside wheel clicks to the next tooth. Truck rngine off. and you can get the diff to unlock and ratchet by spinning the tire whith your bare hands. The harder on the throttle you are, the harder it locks in. Friction overcomes the ramps urge to unlock the speedy side. The key to getting the Detroit to unlock when in a corner is to have enough traction to overcome the locked friction of the diff on throttle. The lighter your throttle the easier it unlocks. The grippier your tires or heavier your truck, the easier it unlocks. Proper tire selection, and proper driving manners go along way. But once you have that figured out, a good Detroit is priceless.

Get on the gas hard in a turn and the inside tire will "sing" a bit. But on a sandy paved road, or wet street, an ARB would just one wheel peel. But you can't over do it in the rain either, it will wag the tail if you get carried away.

If your springs are as stiff as ours. A little weight in the bed for snowy conditions isn't a bad idea. We like to use those giant water bags made for exactly this. Personally, I allways have enough junk in my truck to weigh it down anyways. For the most part though, when a Detroit in the rear starts to get annoying in the snow, the roads are usually completely covered with snow/ice/slush. And then you can use 4WD to keep the truck nice and steady. Whenever there is pavemet peeking through the snow cover, I've never had problems with a Detroit in the rear and 2WD.

Keeping the front diff open means that the truck is quite driveable in slick conditions. Never let the front lock up in ice/snow with a rear auto locker. Ox makes a front locker that is selectable and tough. You have to choose good tires. You can't run mud terrain tires in the winter. But you'll be fine with winter rated tires.

I don't like ARB's in the rear because they are useless on pavement. I still need a locker when I'm pulling up a sand covered asphault road or gravel drive with large stones etc.etc. I like having a diff that's allways at work, not just resting in open mode until I get to the trail. And I want a diff that'll unlock and ratchet should the axle wind up in a turn etc. ARB's lock in and stay in.

I've never seen a decent fullsize with a MILD setup that really gained much with a front locker as long as the rear is locked. Anything that lifts a front wheel into the air or reduces the trucks front traction, presses at least one of the rear tires into the ground hard. A Superduty should allmost allways lift a rear tire before a front in my limited experience. As long as you have a rear locker you're set for anything I think a big Ford should be used for. Afterall, it ain't no jeep.

But if your budget allows lockers front and rear, then go for it.

4.10 gear and 37's + lead foot = smoked auto trans. I'd suggest at least a 4.56 gear. 4.88 if you really want some guts.

 

[Buliwyf]

HI fifty,
The ARB air system is closed. It only uses a puff of air to pressurize the air line when the locker is engaged and when disengaged, the air in the line is released to the world. So, unless there is an air leak, the system normally remains closed and passive. The air storage tank built into the compressor is tiny because it can be.

The instructions that come with the locker mentions using a non-ARB air system. I believe the pressures are in the 90 PSI range.

Sparky

VAIR is a superior compressor setup for about the same or less $$ than the ARB compressors. You can feed an ARB diff well over 200psi. ARB has recommended higher pressures for some axles. A few people I've talked to run 150psi. ARB's don't require much air flow and offer very little, allmost no load to your compressor. Once they're locked in, which is just a thimble full of air, they consume no more air. Put a shreader valve on the end of an air line and you could use a good bicycle pump to operate them (assuming no leaks).

[grain of salt note: I don't currently own or operate any ARB diffs myself]


With Ox lockers, they offer an electric motor option that pulls the cable. It's nice because then you don't have to route the cable in a complex fashion and worry about kinks and friction in your lever linkage. Just get the longest cable, so you can do a nice sweeping bend up to the frame, where you can mount the electric motor. Easy to operate by hand if the whole assembly fails as well.

Cons? It's slow compared to ARB. If you're racing or playing in the dunes at speed. You can't have your passenger lock and unlock the diff repeatedly for you in turns like you can the ARB's. Somthing I noticed about rock buggies and those Petersons tough Truck comps, the ARB locker switches are often in the middle so the passenger/spotter can reach them.

 

[Karma]

I don't like ARB's in the rear because they are useless on pavement. I still need a locker when I'm pulling up a sand covered asphault road or gravel drive with large stones etc.etc. I like having a diff that's allways at work, not just resting in open mode until I get to the trail. And I want a diff that'll unlock and ratchet should the axle wind up in a turn etc. ARB's lock in and stay in.

HI Buliwyf,
Why in the world would you want a locked rear end on dry concrete? While the ARB's would definitely lock, it would be the same as a welded diff. Who wants that? What use is it? Look, I don't drive a huge truck like the one under discussion so there may be applications I'm not familiar with. But to me, your argument is simply not relevant.
Open diffs are there specifically because they are needed in high traction situations. Lockers are for slippery situations.

Sparky

 

[Buliwyf]

Stability when pullling/towing up steep paved roads where sand has blown onto the road. Or when a little Mud slick has washed onto a paved road.

Any kind of wheel spin and then the instantaneous stop of that wheelspin when your back on clean pavement is very hard on the driveline under load. Especially todays heavier trucks pulling 10,000 pounds on one end and 350+ HP on the other. It's not slick enough to lock the ARB, and probally a bad idea, not to mention that by the time you hit that sandy patch your allready across it and done before you even have time to reach the locker switch. There has been plenty of time where I've had a wheel slip up when backing a trailer into a tight spot uphill on pavement. It can be a real pain. Can't turn on the ARB in those conditions.

The Detroit would allready be at work when you hit that unexpected loose spot, and the Detroit is happy as a clam in those conditions. The Detroit can be quite handy in grippy conditions. It's a good option for old school Muscle cars that drag race. I just wanted to point out that the fact that the Detroit is allways at work, and that ismore of a good thing than bad in bigger trucks. (Not so nice in little Toyotas and jeeps)

 

[Area56]

Lockers..

I'll throw in my 2 cents and you can decide if it's worth anything. A full time Detroit locker can be downright dangerous on pavement for the inexperienced.

If you've got one you quickly learn to not step on the gas when turning a corner if there's any water on the road. If you do, you'll quickly be sideways. You don't have that one wheel 'dragging' that keeps you on course.

Like I said though, you learn quick and only do it once. Not a big deal, unless you've got a spouse or good friend that needs to drive your truck. Do you really want their learning experience and potential accident to be in your vehicle?

So for me, it's a safety issue to be determined by the vehicles expected use. If it's a truck that only I'm driving or a trusted co-driver that I've been able to fully verse on it's quirks then it's a Detroit locker all the way. Dollar for dollar the thing's a bad mo fo. I would however save the open diff to swap back in when it's time to sell or trade the vehicle.

If however it's a daily driver that you sometimes have to share with the spouse who for no $#@! reason tends to trade vehicles during the day with your mother-in-law because they're too lazy to swap the kid's car seats then you'd better get a locker that can be disengaged. Having to go get your truck after grandma stacks it into the side of a dump truck because she hit a puddle would probably make you regret not spending a few more dollars on an ARB.

EDIT: I guess we're getting a bit off question here. The ARB won't burn up a compressor unless you've got a leak or it's just undersized. Not a big deal, if you hear the compressor running all the time, turn it off till you can get it fixed. If I drove a lot on ice, I would prefer the option to turn it off and on when i need it. Full control is better than unlocked all the time or locked all the time. Snow, mud, dirt, rocks? Leave it locked.

 

[24HOURSOFNEVADA]

Not Pirate. Didn't mean to come off as harsh as it did. Sorry to all.

 

[Buliwyf]

Detroit in the rear and open front is the choice for many for snow plowing should you need something better than the stock setup. How much snow do you get in Nevada?

One of biggest complaints about selectables is that I can't use them in conditions that are grippy and slippery at the same time without winding an axle up. And they don't ratchet and release axle tension when manuevering a heavy trailer into a tight spot.

I haven't had any problems with our plow trucks in the winter. I allready mentioned fullsize, heavy, auto trans, and good tires in my previous posts. If you still have problems with a Detroit after all that, you're doing it wrong.

OP sounds like he knows a thing or two about trucks and sounds like he can drive and preferes LSD's and switchless operation. I don't expect he'd have any trouble with a truck that big.

 

[24HOURSOFNEVADA]

How much snow do you get in Nevada?

You don't have to attack me for my obvious different experience and bias.

We don't all live in Vegas... There's a pretty popular Mountain range called the Sierra Nevada Mountains. It's known for it's snowfall, just ask the Donner party.

Here's two pictures from A storm last year. One can see the New Snow layer on top of the Firn. Same parking lot, different sides.

 

[proper4wd]

Nice pissing contest you guys have going on.

I have experience with both and can support each of your arguments. A Detroit in a heavy, long wheelbase truck like a Super Duty is almost seamless in operation. The large chassis mellows it out.

ARBs are great. But, I have seen (and experienced) my fair share of system failures that caused them to not work when needed. Wiring problem, air line problem, compressor problem, o-rings leaking causing a ton of gear oil to be blown out the axle breather. A lot of these problems can be avoided by having a really good installation.

I have broken a Detroit in a Land Rover application. Broke an axleshaft under load and the sudden unloading of torque to that side broke a bunch of stuff in the locker. I also broke an ARB- after many miles it needed a rebuild and found that the carrier where the ring gear is bolted on was all warped from heavy use.

I will probably put a Detroit in the rear of my F350. For those of you arguing, "Have you ever driven a selectable locker??" I say, have you ever driven a high horsepower pickup in just mildly slippery conditions? Slipping one rear wheel is common. In my Ford just pulling away from a stoplight with part throttle I spin the right rear in the rain. Am I going to lock an ARB at every stoplight in the rain? That's ridiculous. Sometimes, there are more applications for a locker than just four wheeling. Ask a drag racer.

The ideal locker for me would be an aggressive limited slip which could then be fully locked. I believe the E-locker is offered in this configuration but I haven't heard the best things about its reliability.