At a Crossroads: Planning a Vehicle for Future Family Use

[ThePartyWagon]

Hi Expo,

This may not be the correct sub-forum but I don't know where else to post it. If this is incorrect, mods can move/delete. I tried searching for similar posts but I couldn't find anything quite accurate to my questions.

So, I've been wheeling Jeeps ever since I had a driver's license and camping across the west for the last 11 years. I've spent plenty of time in rock crawling parks back east and now we're covering more ground and exploring (with some Moab crawling) the west. Just some background info.

I'm turning 33 next week, getting married this summer and we're starting to think more and more about kids. Kids are in my future, I know that much, and I know I'm going to end up with at least two. I'm good with that, nervous, but good with that. I bet kids show up in 2-4 years from now. I see this moment, right now, as my opportunity to spend some money on a future camping vehicle, before my toy budget disappears.

I am trying to ensure the continued future of our favorite hobbies and I hope to raise kids doing much of the same; camping, fishing, river trips, desert trips, etc. I don't expect this to be very difficult (LOL), we'll just keep doing what we like to do and we'll adapt our expectations and program for small humans.

What I'm trying to figure out and decide on is whether it's time to start looking into different vehicles and camping systems.

I currently own a 2005 Sequoia, modestly built but capable of anything from towing, to trails, to packing the two dogs and heading home for the holidays. I believe the first gen Sequoia to be quite the underrated vehicle and it's been great for two of us and our two large dogs. It's got 223K on the motor, it's in pretty good condition and I am handy so I do most of my own vehicle work. Vehicle costs are low and I've never had a car payment. I also have a two door XJ that I swore I'd keep forever but it's rarely being driven and I've lost some level of interest in the never ending upkeep. It's pretty much fully built, nothing over the top; roof rack, f/r bumpers, fridge slide, 3.5" lift, 31s, etc. I've had it for nearly 13 years, it's relatively clean and they are going up in price. I don't necessarily want to sell it but I recognize that without spending a bunch of money on it, it's never going to be the XJ of my dreams. It's close but for what people are getting out of XJs now, it's starting to sound like a good time to put $7K back in my pocket. I love crawling around Moab, attending EJS and the Jeep honestly feels like part of my identity. I've always had an XJ and I would thoroughly miss my 4x4 rectangle.

I work for Equipt Expedition Outfitters in Salt Lake City and we are the Utah dealer for Four Wheel Campers and AT Overland. I sell a lot of campers and have a lot of discussions about camper use, various interior build options and I get a lot of great perspectives on what people are using, what they have used in the past and what they did/did not like. This is all great info but not exactly my use case.

This has me considering the sale of both vehicles and a fresh start with something new, more optimized for future family needs. The Sequoia is large, I have the third row and I could optimize the space in the vehicle for car seats, storage and pets. I don't expect another 10 years out of the Sequoia so maybe it's time to sell it, get some cash out of it while I can and move on.

What I'd like out of a vehicle is: room to stand, heat and potentially room for two adults, two children and one or two dogs. I don't really care about running water but maybe that's helpful and convenient with kids. Either way, I can address those things myself if it's not something I pay to have integrated.

If I invest money into something, it's something I plan on using long term, 10+ years. I like the idea of something that can be moved to a different vehicle when the time comes. That's why I'm considering a fullsize truck with a standard 6.5' bed. I really like the first gen double cab Tundras but they have a smaller 6' bed and any camper purchased would really only transfer to a midsize truck. I'm not interested in Tacomas or other mid sized trucks.

So, on to my main question. What would you do?

Should I:

1) Keep the Sequoia for now, not rush into anything and address future needs in the future.

2) Consider a used truck, most likely a small car payment and a future camper purchase in the next couple years, most likely an FWC Hawk Shell or AT Atlas. I don't have an endless budget but a used truck and a camper is feasible. There are lots of similar options out there but these are what we sell and that's what I would stick with if I went camper route. The camper could/would be used consistently in the winter for ski resort duty. Being able to pull into the lot, pop the top, make coffee/breakfast or go back to sleep for a couple hours before the resort opens is very attractive to me.

3) Different route I have not mentioned.

I tow a drift boat and we fish and camp as much as possible so a trailer has never really been much of a consideration. You're still cooking outside, regardless of weather, I can't stand in most options and I cannot tow a boat and a trailer at the same time. I've been on trails where a trailer would not be ideal but who knows if we'll end up camping in the same places we do now. Either way, I'm not real keen on the trailer idea. Feel free to sell me the merits of a trailer, I'm still open to ideas.

I have most everything needed to outfit a vehicle at my disposal due to where I work. Battery systems, fridges, solar, racks, awnings, tents, campers and other industry connections. Like I said, I'll do most of my own work to save a lot on labor.

I'm not a bay area tech guy with $200K to dump into a vehicle. It needs to be relatively modest, functional and affordable and comfortable, the key is comfortable. Also, just for added background info, my fiancé just bought a 2017 GX460 which I will most likely take off her hands when she's ready for a new vehicle. I don't expect this to happen for 10+ years but that will become my DD and kid hauler. A camper and a truck would be a recreational vehicle primarily.

What would you do if you were in my position? If you think I'm overlooking critical points in vehicle options, fatherhood or you simply think the world will cease to exist before I have kids, let me know. Any, and all, advice is appreciated.

Thanks,

 

[nickw]

Lots to dissect there but what I hear you saying is you don't like the idea of a Sprinter since nothing can be moved to a new platform....I'd agree.

If you have the room at house, I think a full size, 4 door, long bed truck with FWC is the move, lots of space and comfy on the long haul and plenty of payload to haul larger camper (if so desired) + tow....wouldn't want one in the city though, but you have the Lexus for that. I bet if you wait for another year or so once the supply chain issues get settled you can probably find a used one for reasonable $$ vs what we are seeing now.

We landed on a trailer since most of our camping is done at improved campsites, we really like it, but doesn't sound like it fits with your use case.

 

[jbaucom]

Overall, this is a pretty terrible time to buy a vehicle, new or used, unless you have a late model trade that you can get ridiculous money for due to the current market. I'd begin by selling the XJ because prices for everything are high now, as a 2-door it will have extremely limited practical use for a family, and it's consuming and tying-up resources that could be used for a new camping and exploration vehicle. Then I'd take option 1 and hold off on buying anything until supply and prices improve, unless something happened to the Sequoia that necessitated an immediate purchase. Going from 0 kids to having 1 or 2 of them, especially when they're small, impacts so many things, that I wouldn't recommend trying to guess how you and your wife will want to travel in a few years when you have small children running around. Also, when you have kids, don't think of it as your "toy budget disappearing." Travel, camping, exploration, and outdoor activities are all educational opportunities and an important part of a well rounded education, so it's OK to prioritize acquiring the equipment you need to do those things as a family, and this is a good time to begin saving/preparing for when that day comes.

 

[ExpoMike]

Congrats on your upcoming wedding. Sounds like you have a lot of life changes coming over the next few years.

As for thoughts on rigs, 2 adults, 2 kids and a dog or two. That's a big order to fill for a smaller truck/truck camper setup. My wife and I had a 1997 Ram club cab, long bed 4x4 with a FWC Grandby slide in. For two adults and a dog, it was not bad but did get tight at times. I would not want to have tried to add 2 kids and another dog to that setup. No way it would have worked well. If that was the situation I was facing, I would look at nothing less than a full size 1 ton, long bed truck and a flatbed style camper. You will get the most floor/sleeping space, which even then will be tight at times. One thing to remember when looking at choices is not what you could live with but what will your new wife want/need. I can get by with much less comfort than my wife is going to would like and she is by no means someone who needs luxuries. But she does have some hard limit, so you might want to make sure your plans are really going to align with your wife's needs.

As for a trailer, there are some really nice options out there that have popup roofs, to keep the profile low. I don't know what type of boat you have but is it something where you can have some ramp setup in the bed of the truck, to haul the boat and use a trailer for the camp rig? Nice thing about a trailer is you can drop that off at your camp and then use the truck to go explore and not have to pack everything up. With kids/dogs, this can save a lot of time and frustration every time you get somewhere and then want to explore. Just an option to think about.

Wish you good luck on your hunt.

 

[ThePartyWagon]

Lots to dissect there but what I hear you saying is you don't like the idea of a Sprinter since nothing can be moved to a new platform....I'd agree.

If you have the room at house, I think a full size, 4 door, long bed truck with FWC is the move, lots of space and comfy on the long haul and plenty of payload to haul larger camper (if so desired) + tow....wouldn't want one in the city though, but you have the Lexus for that. I bet if you wait for another year or so once the supply chain issues get settled you can probably find a used one for reasonable $$ vs what we are seeing now.

We landed on a trailer since most of our camping is done at improved campsites, we really like it, but doesn't sound like it fits with your use case.

Sprinters are cool, can't afford a $60K empty van let a lone a full build. I'd be up for the van concept, even with lack of future retrofitability, it just comes down to the financials on the van. I do live in SLC but the truck would be recreational use primarily so I wouldn't be driving the truck in the city much, like you said.

There are some major benefits with the trailer; being able to set up basecamp is the number one benefit in my eyes. Maybe I'm overthinking the boat/trailers use. If it's a river trip, then the trailer could stay home, realistically, we're sleeping on the side of the river, out of the boat, most of the trip. Haven't fully written it off. Maybe I'm simply making up excuses that aren't realistic.

Thanks for your input.

 

[nickw]

Sprinters are cool, can't afford a $60K empty van let a lone a full build. I'd be up for the van concept, even with lack of future retrofitability, it just comes down to the financials on the van. I do live in SLC but the truck would be recreational use primarily so I wouldn't be driving the truck in the city much, like you said.

There are some major benefits with the trailer; being able to set up basecamp is the number one benefit in my eyes. Maybe I'm overthinking the boat/trailers use. If it's a river trip, then the trailer could stay home, realistically, we're sleeping on the side of the river, out of the boat, most of the trip. Haven't fully written it off. Maybe I'm simply making up excuses that aren't realistic.

Thanks for your input.

Pros and cons to it all and really depends on what works the best.....it will always be a compromise!

 

[Rovertrader]

A compromise for sure, and no perfect answer. One thing to remember- the smaller the kids the more stuff you will be hauling. A true inverse relationship- toys, strollers, play pens, etc etc. So likely the ‘perfect’ setup will be elusive as your needs/interest/destinations/etc will change numerous times. There is certainly a good point made for a trailer as a base camp- especially when very young children are part of the formula. Our kids are late teenagers, and they love the simplicity of a hammock, and prefer the outdoors hands down. As mentioned above, the times/experiences you will have are priceless. Just try to not get bogged down with ‘stuff’ but rather go as much as possible. Lastly, as the kids learn they can certainly lighten the load by helping with everything from planning to setup to cooking/cleaning/etc.

 

[ThePartyWagon]

Overall, this is a pretty terrible time to buy a vehicle, new or used, unless you have a late model trade that you can get ridiculous money for due to the current market. I'd begin by selling the XJ because prices for everything are high now, as a 2-door it will have extremely limited practical use for a family, and it's consuming and tying-up resources that could be used for a new camping and exploration vehicle. Then I'd take option 1 and hold off on buying anything until supply and prices improve, unless something happened to the Sequoia that necessitated an immediate purchase. Going from 0 kids to having 1 or 2 of them, especially when they're small, impacts so many things, that I wouldn't recommend trying to guess how you and your wife will want to travel in a few years when you have small children running around. Also, when you have kids, don't think of it as your "toy budget disappearing." Travel, camping, exploration, and outdoor activities are all educational opportunities and an important part of a well rounded education, so it's OK to prioritize acquiring the equipment you need to do those things as a family, and this is a good time to begin saving/preparing for when that day comes.

Definitely agree here. We ended up ordering the Lexus from Vroom because we could not find anything in a 500 mile radius. I'm sure we overpaid but she actually needed a new vehicle. We couldn't really put that one off any longer.

I was primarily looking at used Tundras, maybe a 7.3 F250, Ram 2500, etc. Even then, used trucks that are currently $18-30K are inherently inflated right now.

I like the idea of "toy budget" turned "educational experience budget", great way to look at it. Something only a parent would know.

It's looking more and more like the XJ has to go.

Thanks for responding!

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Also, when you have kids, don't think of it as your "toy budget disappearing." Travel, camping, exploration, and outdoor activities are all educational opportunities and an important part of a well rounded education, so it's OK to prioritize acquiring the equipment you need to do those things as a family, and this is a good time to begin saving/preparing for when that day comes.

Just don't sink the ship trying to win the race.

Dr visits, diapers, daycare, baby gear etc will have to become a priority.

Dr visits and sick kids murder vacation/pto time with work.

Helping mom with little kids will eat into your project time too.

110% worth it but it is a game changer.

I worked on our camper from 11-1230 at night for like a month redoing the roof last summer after everybody went to bed, but he has a hoot with his "raner"



And don't be too proud for a ground tent, they are hard to beat for price and compactness. It is what we use for long distance stuff (pre kid even)

 

[billiebob]

Sleeping for 6 is the killer. Plus stuff for 6 even if 2 of them are canine. I'd recommend at least a full size 3/4 ton, maybe a 1 ton. There are plenty of used pickups complete with campers for sale. Many low mile and stored inside.

With a 1/2 ton everyone would need to pack like a back packer and you'd need tents. In 10 years those kids will need full size everything. The big thing is can you pack and travel light.

Another option would be some kind of van conversion thing with everything inside, but that would be a dedicated camper. I doubt you'd want to drive it daily.

OR lots of families travel with 2 vehicles. Dad drives the regular cab pickup, camper and sets up camp, Mom shows up with the kids in a Volvo. Incredible how many families in Alberta camp this way. I say it creates a strong marriage.

 

[jbaucom]

Travel style is important too. Do you like to travel daily and set up at a new campsite each night, or do you like to set up a basecamp for a couple of days and explore an area before moving on to the next location? Infants travel pretty well, because they like to sleep a lot when they aren't eating or pooping. As preschoolers, our kids did not like being in the car for more than an hour or two at a time. By about age 8 or 9, they seem to begin to ride long distances better; now they're content to play on their tablets without fussing too much when we need to knock out a long, hard, day of driving.

My kids like to camp, and they prefer sleeping in a tent over any other accommodation (other than their bedrooms). We use a ground tent and set up a basecamp for a 2+ days at a time, explore from there, then move on to a new location. For cross-country road trips, we stay in a hotel on the driving days, just to maximize our drive time & distance, then set up the tent and camp when we get to the destination area. Even then, I try to plan somewhere interesting to stop at during each long road day so that we get a chance to stretch our legs and take a break from riding.

Looking at your long-term goals, for 4 people plus dogs, it would be hard for me to not recommend sticking with a full-size SUV and pulling a trailer. A rough road capable hard-side pop up, A-frame trailer, should get you into plenty of sites down rough FSRs (but not jeep or serious 4x4 trails) while allowing you plenty of interior vehicle space for small humans and dogs. If you get a truck, where do you envision the dogs riding once you have children? Would you want to separate the dogs and put them in the living quarters? Four humans and a couple dogs is a lot to pack into a crew-cab truck.

Also, consider going used, 3-5 years old, to limit your losses if you find out that the setup you bought just isn't working for your family. If you buy too old, you limit the resale market, and if you buy new, you eat all the depreciation.

 

[calicamper]

Congratulations
Hey your getting way ahead of your self on vehicle stuff. Since you already have a Sequoia keep it. Consider it your 4x4 Sienna with a real spare tire.
Focus on the other more important things like wedding costs, financial planning for two kids. Housing and job stability.
My kids are 9 and 12. What we do today is a few shades of grey different than what the Wife and I did before kids. Some of it due to what it takes to plan an activity for 4 vs 2. Its not 2x as much its more like 3.5 times more stuff and work in most cases.
Kids interests also impact your activities. My oldest (Team sport kid) is super sporty and thrives on competition. So 2 weekends out of the month are typically taken up by one club sport or another. My youngest is into different more individual sports, so those get fit in when the parents split each taking a kid. Example yesterday my youngest and I spent the day crewing for a friend racing a sailboat every 1st Sunday of the month October- March. Wife took my oldest to volleyball skills workout. Next two Sundays both kids are JR sailing oldest then splits with mom to afternoon vball. Saturday’s often times we are playing tennis or Mt Biking as a family both kids play tennis during the week after school.
Summers we are on swim team, hiking, biking, sailing and 1-2 camp trips.

Wife and I sold our racing sailboat didn’t have enough time to race it. Kept the family cruiser which we do short trips between other stuff.
We also sold my motorcycle and our road bikes way to many friends wiped out in recent yrs and kids change your perspective on unnecessary risk activities lol didn’t have time for that stuff anymore anyway.

Vehicles? My youngest arrived when we had two daily drivers 2001 Jetta and 2001 Legacy GT (our suv basically) I picked up a cherry J80 in 2004 to give us 5+ seating capacity and more hauling capability. 2011 we needed truly 5+ seats not 5 and 1.5 seats in a pinch so got the 2007 Sequoia and sold the J80.

Today the Sequoia is with my dad, and we run a loaded Expedition seats 8 and typically runs 4-7 people 3-4 times a week sports, sailing with friends etc. Camping trips last few yrs typically one 10-12 day trip end of June then 1-2 short trips the rest of the yr all due to various club sport schedules and job constraints etc.

Dads toy car? Sure!! I inherited grandpas SLK350 with 28,000miles. I drive it 1-2 times a week when kids aren’t a factor. The rest of the time its the Expedition bus.

you have at minimum 2-3 yrs where your only vehicle issue is rear seat space for car seats and if your knees are rammed into a dash because you can’t get the seat to slide back. The old Jetta sucked ass lol. The Legacy was pretty good but not super roomy. The Sequoia was great. The Expedition is awesome

as for camping? When we sold our racing sailboat which we raced on lakes during the summer and ocean in the winter, we trailered the boat and stuffed it with our camp gear. So I bought the original Life Time 4x6 camp trailer/ utility trailer. Two Queen beds that has done 12 day 3500 mile trips Yellowstone, the Utah 5 etc. It also gets used to haul boats and bikes about 2x a month.
Today I’m looking to add a Escape 17b and setup a front bunk bed system so older kids have their own bunk and we can target regions and seasons where tents don’t work.

 

[ns7i]

Fast forward 3 years and that’s where I’m at. Two kids (1 & 3). Two dogs (75 and 40 lbs). First gen tundra double cab with an OVRLND camper on order. The plan is for most of our hangout time to be outside. Cooking outside, playing outside. The cab over is bigger than a queen size bed and the bottom will convert to a bed for the kids and dogs. When the kids get too big we will kick them out and into a tent. Payload is a serious concern. No bumpers, lightweight aluminum camper buildout and we will probably be just under GVWR. Of course I’ve already got Load E tires and I’m planning on a custom leaf pack and brake upgrade. If I was to do it again I’d order an F250 Tremor (despite my love for Toyota).

Honestly, travel is very different with kids. Everything is twice as hard, takes twice as long, and you get half as far. The days of 12 hour long hauls turn into a max of 6-7hr driving with extra stops and that’s the exception. I shoot for 3-4hr max in the car. More staying at a base camp.

With all that said, it feels good both knowing that the kids are getting great experiences from a young age and knowing that as parents we’re still getting after it despite the added difficulty and compromise.

One last note, if I were you, I’d spend my money on travel instead of a vehicle. Sounds like you have the rigs to do it. Get out there with your fiancée before the kids show up.

Good luck!

 

[calicamper]

^
To add ns7i

We found that base camping was the only way we were going to make camping trips work. Setting up for one night then tearing down and moving on sucks. On long highway trips like our Yellowstone trip we did a hotel room 10 hours in, then noon arrival in Yellowstone base camped for 9days in the same spot, but had short days with in camp games interspersed with long days day trips to Grand Teton etc.

The very rare occasional one night spot is ok but not as a normal practice. The kids hate it and I become nothing but the pack/unpack mule not fun.

I got super serious about the truck camper idea when the kids were much smaller. But after talking to lots if families with older kids I scrubbed the idea. Between payload needs something you learn grows as fast as your kids and the fact that our region really makes living with long vehicles like the extra long Suburban/Expedition and the full sized crew trucks a massive pain in the back side. Even more so today with camping options really impacted the bigger the site needed for your rig.
So the fact that the Expedition is nearly identical in length to the old Sequoia but packs a big load capacity and tow rating was really important.
Last Saturday we had 6 Mountain bikes on our LOLO hitch rack. Its crazy how heavy that thing is. I can take 8 but need to toss two bikes on the roof. Truck would be nice but not for 6-8 and definitely not as compact.

We also have always had at least one Doberman. Currently a big Doberman (biggest I’ve had ever 100lb and a COvid orphan 12lb Chihuahua/crocodile mix. The camp trailer setup works great especially given its used a bunch as a gear hauler also.

 

[NatersXJ6]

Kids change so fast from 0-6 years that any long term planning you think you’re doing is virtually wasted. The stuff you need now is different than what you needed 6 months ago and different than what you will need in 6 months. Ask the crates of outgrown snow clothes in my closet how they came to be.

Focus on close to home, base camp, short trips. Focus on good food and micro-experiences. Don’t forget that mama needs vacation too. More than 1/2 of my “cool” camp gear is authorized because I take the kids away for long weekends and let her reset sanity at home.