Battery charger comparison: Sterling vs ProMariner
- Thread starter outwestbound
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67cj5
Man On a Mission
These smart chargers do that, At the moment I have one sitting here on charge and it is just Clicking away and in 2 hours 14 minutes the battery voltage has risen by 0.10 volts, And at nearly 300 Bucks I think it is a POS, The battery was already charged but this Smart Charger decided that it wanted to float the battery,
They claim that it coverts power 30,000 times faster than a normal charger and it uses a lot Less power, Well that's another Lie because I used my Big Red Charger and it used 459 Watts in 3 hours 26 minutes where as the Smart Charger used 1135 + Watts and took well over 12 hours and even then it wanted to keep messing around, Smart Chargers are ok for DIY Dads and Gadget Queens but when you need to get the Job done and Get on with Life then a Real Battery Charger is the only Way To Go.
luthj
Engineer In Residence
Sorry, but tossing a generic shop floor charger on a battery, and then walking away is no better. I have watched them cook batteries, especially sealed ones. Quality charger, (not a generic "smart" unit) with 3 stage charging and a legit algorithm, is superior. Stuff like Ctek for example. Most smart chargers are not user programmable, and use very conservative (often too low) absorb voltages. Some incorporate a desulfate or maintenance cycle. These are sometimes automatic, and can takes 24 hours.
Neglecting to get the last 2-5% of capacity during each recharge will accelerate sulfation and capacity loss.
Without monitoring current, voltage alone is only half the story. A lead battery is fully charged when its return current is 1% or less of its 20hr rating (C) at the specified absorb voltage.
Neglecting to get the last 2-5% of capacity during each recharge will accelerate sulfation and capacity loss.
Without monitoring current, voltage alone is only half the story. A lead battery is fully charged when its return current is 1% or less of its 20hr rating (C) at the specified absorb voltage.
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67cj5
Man On a Mission
I NEVER walk away from a battery when it is on Charge, So you need to see the bigger Picture.
What are you on about, I have already said that I have 3 Smart Chargers which are fine for DIY Dads but when it comes to charging Real Batteries Smart Chargers are useless, even more so when you have only a certain amount of time to get the Job Done.
Smart Chargers are fine if you want to walk away and leave a battery on charge, But there is no way will I sit there for 12+ Hours while a Smart Charger Sit's There pretending to be Stylist and Modern, When a Proper Workshop Charger will do the same Job in under 3 Hours,
Also I have./OWN more battery Testing Equipment than most WorkShop or Battery Sales companies Own So I know exactly what My batteries are doing at any Given Time, And I know exactly how many Volts my batteries are taking along with the Amps and the resistance and the SOC and SOH.
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luthj
Engineer In Residence
My issue is that you are making sweeping (and emotionally charged) claims about smart chargers. Yet you seem to dislike it when I make wide claims about shop boost chargers?
Now you are narrowing your claims to specific circumstances. Which is fine. However, someone with lesser experience may come along, and read your prior postings claiming superiority of the "dumb" chargers.
I am not challenging your experience or your gear pile. The OP asked a specific question about his circumstances. Yet you feel justified going off topic to discuss what appears to be your specific needs, which have little relation to the OPS question. He is not a "pro", and doesn't need to rapidly boost batteries in a shop situation. Neither does he have the weight or space for a 100lb roll-around charger.
The real question is what are you on about? If you want to discuss your personal feelings about chargers not related to the OPs question, feel free to start your own thread.
Now you are narrowing your claims to specific circumstances. Which is fine. However, someone with lesser experience may come along, and read your prior postings claiming superiority of the "dumb" chargers.
I am not challenging your experience or your gear pile. The OP asked a specific question about his circumstances. Yet you feel justified going off topic to discuss what appears to be your specific needs, which have little relation to the OPS question. He is not a "pro", and doesn't need to rapidly boost batteries in a shop situation. Neither does he have the weight or space for a 100lb roll-around charger.
The real question is what are you on about? If you want to discuss your personal feelings about chargers not related to the OPs question, feel free to start your own thread.
67cj5
Man On a Mission
You can twist and turn my posts in to what ever you want, But the Fact is He wants a Charger that will Top up his batteries in a couple of Hours, OWNING Both Types and using them on a Daily bases I know that a Smart Charger will not do the Job he wants to Achieve.
The Only way you can Dump that much power in to a Battery in such a short amount of Time is to use a Workshop Charger which is designed to perform like that, Not one Smart Charger I know can do that or has a Smart Bypass Switch where it just goes to full power when needed.
The only way to get around any Battery Charging Tasks is to Own all types of Chargers, As much as I wanted these Smart Chargers to be what the Company Claims it appears that 75% of their Claims are Untrue, which is why I own about 8+ Battery Chargers.
This Battery I have on Charge using a large Smart Charger has been on charge since it was reading 13.31v now it is reading 13.43 to 13.47v and that has taken 3 hours and 39 minutes and it is still 1.4 volts short of being able to de-sulphide a Battery. 3h 39m to gain 0.13volts and that is with a 26 Amp Charger. That's a Joke.
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luthj
Engineer In Residence
What specifically about digitally controlled chargers makes them incapable of high charge rates? And of course a 100A shop charger will charge a battery faster!
Obviously if you look around there are plenty of poorly designed chargers, many with misleading advertising. The charger in the OPs post, and similar quality chargers are not the same. They will put out there rated power until the absorb setpoint is hit. At that point the amps will taper, as the battery's acceptance drops with SOC. This is essentially how 99% of battery MFGs suggest a battery be charged. It is also a "smart" charger profile.
Many rapid chargers will boost a battery at nearly 15V for short periods to rapidly recovery a nearly dead battery. This works to maximize charge rates early in the cycle, because the internal resistance of the battery is high, and its acceptance is also high. This is not conducive to long battery life though. If the "dumb" charger in question is single voltage, and allow to charge without monitoring, it can cook/ruin a battery. In fact I have wittnessed two batteries "explode" or break there case when pushed to thermal runaway by a old school 150lb boost charger putting out over 1C. Obviously this is not common.
Other than increasing charger output, the only way to reduce charge times with a CC/CV profile (smart charger profile) is to increase charge voltage. Going above the suggested absorb voltage reduces pack life in some situations, and can accelerate grid corrosion long term.
A smart charger isn't necessary if the operator is around to watch it constantly. A single voltage charger set to the absorb voltage will work just fine. But without the digitial (or in some older units analog) "smart" feedback, it can't drop to float.
Obviously if you look around there are plenty of poorly designed chargers, many with misleading advertising. The charger in the OPs post, and similar quality chargers are not the same. They will put out there rated power until the absorb setpoint is hit. At that point the amps will taper, as the battery's acceptance drops with SOC. This is essentially how 99% of battery MFGs suggest a battery be charged. It is also a "smart" charger profile.
Many rapid chargers will boost a battery at nearly 15V for short periods to rapidly recovery a nearly dead battery. This works to maximize charge rates early in the cycle, because the internal resistance of the battery is high, and its acceptance is also high. This is not conducive to long battery life though. If the "dumb" charger in question is single voltage, and allow to charge without monitoring, it can cook/ruin a battery. In fact I have wittnessed two batteries "explode" or break there case when pushed to thermal runaway by a old school 150lb boost charger putting out over 1C. Obviously this is not common.
Other than increasing charger output, the only way to reduce charge times with a CC/CV profile (smart charger profile) is to increase charge voltage. Going above the suggested absorb voltage reduces pack life in some situations, and can accelerate grid corrosion long term.
A smart charger isn't necessary if the operator is around to watch it constantly. A single voltage charger set to the absorb voltage will work just fine. But without the digitial (or in some older units analog) "smart" feedback, it can't drop to float.
67cj5
Man On a Mission
The problem I am finding with smart chargers is they put out very little Amps In the same time frame when compared to a Linier type charger, Although they reach higher voltages very quickly which helps de-sulphide batteries and during a normal charge cycle they reach voltages of around 15.09v and in their repair mode they will hit voltages of 16.0 / 16.5 volts with a maximum currant of about 1.5A, The theory behind the high voltage is Great for cleaning the plates but in the normal charge mode the highest Amperage I saw was 1.31A, When I hooked up one of the older Linier type chargers I am seeing levels around the 15A mark which means it will put back the drained power very quickly.
This 26 Amp Smart Charger has gone from 13.31v to 13.57 / 13.64v and that has taken 5 hours 12 minutes now and it is still a long way of from 14.40 to 14.70 / 80v
Where as the workshop charger hit the 13.85v within 2 hours and the 14.43 at 3 hours 29 minutes depending on the settings and I have also seen it hit the 14.76v in 3 hours 29 minutes, At this point which is normally around the 3 hour mark I switch it to Low where the voltage drops to around 13.31 / 13.36v and then I will let it keep charging until it reaches around 14.6 to 14.7v which is equal to 2.45v per Cell where it is de-sulphiding the plates, at that point I switch off the Charger and let it rest, before use.
The only way I can get the amount of Charge in to a Battery at the Rate that the OP describes is to use an Old fashioned type Charger, Because he is wanting/needing to run a generator during a few hours of daylight at the end of his days Travels,
On the other hand Smart Chargers have many uses but this is one area/Task where Brute force is the Key because of the time scale required. As to Charging other fancy batteries and catering for the needs of Modern Vehicles then a Smart Charger would be the best Choice, But for day to day Charging a normal charger offers the speed required and at a 3rd of the cost of a smart charger,
Smart Chargers can be left on charge for ever where normal chargers can not, and they also have many modes that can cater for many types of batteries, Smart chargers are more directed at modern Hi Tech Motoring and Racing applications and they are brilliant, But for Bulk charging of this nature there is no substitute for Cubic Inches. And one of the major down sides to smart chargers is that they tell you nothing, you can't tell which of it's 8 Steps it is in or performing and the flashing LED's are a crude form of state of charge display, If the power is interrupted then they start the whole program over again,
I bought 3 of them thinking that my hours of sitting by batteries was over but sadly it's not, and the Big Red Charger still does 95% + of my Charging needs.
67cj5
Man On a Mission
It doesn't matter what the brand, most of them have pre set programs that work in 6, 7, and 8 steps.
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67cj5
Man On a Mission
No I didn't say that At All, I said that Smart Chargers are useless for Bulk Charging Situations like the OP describes,
67cj5
Man On a Mission
Another thing I noticed with the sterling Charger is they claim it has a very low power usage, well that's not correct either because at the 20Amp setting it uses over 300watts as does my 26A Smart Charger, My Work Shop Charger uses around 177 to 190w @ 20 Amps and although the sterling has a power factor of 89% and my work shop charger has a power factor of 82% it is in fact more efficient than the sterling because it is using under 190w and not 300w So there is a saving of 110w right off the Bat.
As per Sterlings Data Sheet, see below.
- Efficiency 89.4%
- Full load current (110/230v) 9.8/4.6
- Ripple noise (R.M.S.) 14mv
- Ground leakage 0.5 ma
- Generator/ mains power required to run unit (watts)
- 12 v 20 amp approx 300 watts
- 12 v 30 amp approx 450 watts
- 12 v 40 amp approx 600 watts
- 12 v 50 amp approx 750 watts
- 12 v 60 amp approx 900 watts
- 24 v 20 amp approx 600 watts
- 24 v 30 amp approx 900 watts
- volt metre accuracy +/- 1%
- amp metre accuracy +/- 1%
dreadlocks
Well-known member
177-190W @ 12v is 15A with 100% efficiency, your charger cant magically make energy out of nothing.. the only way your getting 20A out of your shop charger with 190W is if its outputting 16v and by then you've toasted your batteries or they are not sinking 20A
something your using to measure energy with is inaccurate to say the least.. approx 300W/12V=25A*.89%=22.25A, the math adds up for the Sterling unlike you.
something your using to measure energy with is inaccurate to say the least.. approx 300W/12V=25A*.89%=22.25A, the math adds up for the Sterling unlike you.