Big Bear Snowshoeing (SoCal) Feb 14th

teotwaki

Excelsior!
Great pics, Thank you as well for that list to help me get started as well. What type of pack do you use?

I use a Black Diamond Speed series, model 30L. It is my absolute most favorite pack for day trips or super light overnighters. It is rugged, comfortable and very light.

http://www.sierradescents.com/reviews/packs/black-diamond/2005/speed.php

They keep updating it but the one in the link is closest to my model. I got mine on sale for about $50 at REI a while back.
 

bpenn1980

New member
Nice pic of the clouds, pretty cool how it almost feels like it rolling in.

I do think you would have been better suited attempting a 14k sierra peak with that kit though! You werent messing around with the "unknown" factor :D

I encourage everyone to try cross country skiing if you like snowshoeing. Skiing can be more more enjoyable in certain situations (like below zero with snow balling up under snowshoes)
 

teotwaki

Excelsior!
Nice pic of the clouds, pretty cool how it almost feels like it rolling in.

I do think you would have been better suited attempting a 14k sierra peak with that kit though! You werent messing around with the "unknown" factor :D

I encourage everyone to try cross country skiing if you like snowshoeing. Skiing can be more more enjoyable in certain situations (like below zero with snow balling up under snowshoes)

I've been above 20k and also on a small number of 14k peaks and you can end up just as dead at 8k when you are unprepared.
 

bpenn1980

New member
I agree.

However, having grown up in Big Bear, and knowing exactly where you were, its not like you were hiking San G or Baldy....neither of which appear intimidating but are known to claim a few "unprepared" each year.

I guess my point is that some folks here were asking about what they need to safely enjoy light winter sports like snow shoeing in big bear. Water bottle insulators meant for peaks such as Mt Ranier and ascenders meant for crevasse rescue or big wall work are certainly unnecessary for a hike in the winter wonderland woods. Warm clothes, your kid's school backpack, food/water, a note left with someone you trust, and basic outdoorsman skills (navigating w/ topo and compass, layer clothes, dont sweat, etc) will make a basic day out possible. Add kit to your hearts content after that.

For someone like yourself, who has climbed above 20k, you have the gear laying around and want to include it in your pack for the "what if" scenario...fine, but its not a necessity.

Thats all I'm saying.

Brad
 

teotwaki

Excelsior!
I agree.

However, having grown up in Big Bear, and knowing exactly where you were, its not like you were hiking San G or Baldy....neither of which appear intimidating but are known to claim a few "unprepared" each year.

I guess my point is that some folks here were asking about what they need to safely enjoy light winter sports like snow shoeing in big bear. Water bottle insulators meant for peaks such as Mt Ranier and ascenders meant for crevasse rescue or big wall work are certainly unnecessary for a hike in the winter wonderland woods. Warm clothes, your kid's school backpack, food/water, a note left with someone you trust, and basic outdoorsman skills (navigating w/ topo and compass, layer clothes, dont sweat, etc) will make a basic day out possible. Add kit to your hearts content after that.

For someone like yourself, who has climbed above 20k, you have the gear laying around and want to include it in your pack for the "what if" scenario...fine, but its not a necessity.

Thats all I'm saying.

Brad


Dear Brad,

I only posted about my half day snowshoeing trip but it seems that you really desire to make some sort of public points about what I carried and how much you know about such gear. I carried what I usually carry whether it is Mount Baldy, Rainier, San Gorgonio, Shasta, Whitney or Big Bear in winter weather. I'm not a great mountaineer but I definitely am uninjured and alive because I don't depend on children's day packs as you seem to espouse. As puzzled as I am by your persistance I'll try to reply based on the items you were so keen about:

30 meter rope, 8mm
2 Tibloc ascenders
3 Nalgene water bottles with insulated covers


I put up my list of what I chose to carry without anyone ever asking me for it. Please go back and review the relevent posts. Never did I state that any item was a "necessity". I did note that a potential storm was in the area and I listed extra clothing layers for that. There were two "thank you" messages from folks who said that they would use the list as a starting point (#13 & #14). But.... no actual request for a list as you so erroneously claimed:

"....some folks here were asking about what they need to safely enjoy light winter sports like snow shoeing in big bear"

There was one question about my snowshoes (#7) and one about my pack (#14). That is it.

How about Petzyl TiBloc ascenders and how they are not the first choice for "big wall work" as opposed to full-sized Petzyl ascenders like the ones I used on Denali? For "crevasse rescue" I carry Prusiks in the Texas config. After that we could discuss that nobody in their right mind would climb a "big wall" with a single 8mm rope only 30 meters long.

Please note that water bottle insulators are not actually designed "for peaks such as Mt Ranier". Their designs are based on maintaining a temperature difference rather than on altitude. If I am carrying hot tea or something like that in a plastic Nalgene bottle it is nice to insulate the bottle so it won't cool off in sub-freezing temps like those at Big Bear. They can keep cold liquids cold in hot weather and are also much lighter than three metal thermos bottles in a kid's backpack.

For someone like you who seems to have very limited mountaineering experience I don't understand why you are determined to critique my gear list, that's all I am saying.

Here is a question for you:

In your first post you said: "I do think you would have been better suited attempting a 14k sierra peak...."

Have you actually tried any winter climbing on 14k Sierra peaks? Based on your inaccurate comments about my gear I am very unsure because you've only stated that you grew up in Big Bear. If you have some actual experience with winter mountaineering I would love to hear about it.
 
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teotwaki

Excelsior!
Brad, would you elaborate more on cross-country skiing as it sounds like something that you've enjoyed and should share with us who have not tried it.
 

rionorte

Member
I agree.

However, having grown up in Big Bear, and knowing exactly where you were, its not like you were hiking San G or Baldy....neither of which appear intimidating but are known to claim a few "unprepared" each year.

I guess my point is that some folks here were asking about what they need to safely enjoy light winter sports like snow shoeing in big bear...

As we all know, conversing through the Internet can sometimes garble our intended message.

But the point I got from Brad was that you can still enjoy snowshoeing in parts of Big Bear without the other items if you dont have them. Someone who is new/want to try it out and dont have a lot of equipment. Of course keep in mind to carry the bare necessary safety items and using your noggen.

Well thats the point I got from his post. And I could be wrong too. :coffeedrink:

Dear Brad,

I only posted about my half day snowshoeing trip but it seems that you really desire to make some sort of public points about what I carried and how much you know about such gear. I carried what I usually carry whether it is Mount Baldy, Rainier, San Gorgonio, Shasta, Whitney or Big Bear in winter weather. I'm not a great mountaineer but I definitely am uninjured and alive because I don't depend on children's day packs as you seem to espouse. As puzzled as I am by your persistance I'll try to reply based on the items you were so keen about:

30 meter rope, 8mm
2 Tibloc ascenders
3 Nalgene water bottles with insulated covers


I put up my list of what I chose to carry without anyone ever asking me for it. Please go back and review the relevent posts. Never did I state that any item was a "necessity". I did note that a potential storm was in the area and I listed extra clothing layers for that. There were two "thank you" messages from folks who said that they would use the list as a starting point (#13 & #14). But.... no actual request for a list as you so erroneously claimed:

"....some folks here were asking about what they need to safely enjoy light winter sports like snow shoeing in big bear"

There was one question about my snowshoes (#7) and one about my pack (#14). That is it.

How about Petzyl TiBloc ascenders and how they are not the first choice for "big wall work" as opposed to full-sized Petzyl ascenders like the ones I used on Denali? For "crevasse rescue" I carry Prusiks in the Texas config. After that we could discuss that nobody in their right mind would climb a "big wall" with a single 8mm rope only 30 meters long.

Please note that water bottle insulators are not actually designed "for peaks such as Mt Ranier". Their designs are based on maintaining a temperature difference rather than on altitude. If I am carrying hot tea or something like that in a plastic Nalgene bottle it is nice to insulate the bottle so it won't cool off in sub-freezing temps like those at Big Bear. They can keep cold liquids cold in hot weather and are also much lighter than three metal thermos bottles in a kid's backpack.

For someone like you who seems to have very limited mountaineering experience I don't understand why you are determined to critique my gear list, that's all I am saying.

Here is a question for you:

In your first post you said: "I do think you would have been better suited attempting a 14k sierra peak...."

Have you actually tried any winter climbing on 14k Sierra peaks? Based on your inaccurate comments about my gear I am very unsure because you've only stated that you grew up in Big Bear. If you have some actual experience with winter mountaineering I would love to hear about it.
 
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teotwaki

Excelsior!
As we all know, conversing through the Internet can sometimes garble our intended message.

But the point I got from Brad was that you can still enjoy snowshoeing in parts of Big Bear without the other items if you dont have them. Someone who is new/want to try it out and dont have a lot of equipment. Of course keep in mind to carry the bare necessary safety items and using your noggen.

Well thats the point I got from his post. And I could be wrong too. :coffeedrink:

If Brad had said only that and not referred to posts that didn't really exist I wouldn't care. On Big Bear's north shore near the Visitor Center there are flat trails where you can snow shoe back and forth to your heart's content and never be too far from the paved road. Who needs any gear at all for that? Again, he ascribed all sorts of nonexistant things into the thread and tied it into his opinions about gear he's probably never seen.

When all sorts of other incorrect comments are thrown in it is hard to discern why my thread is being hijacked.
 

bpenn1980

New member
Hey Jim,

You know what? You're correct. Took the time to go back and re-read. Nobody asked you to list your kit. Someone asked bout the shoes and someone else commented later that the list would be a great starting place. My bad, maybe I read some other post and cross contaminated them in my head. My bad.

As for your feeling that I'm trying to make a point, thats not entirely true. I was trying to demonstrate that your kit is magnificent and accumulated over many good and excellent adventures in the mountains (and rocks?). That same level of preparation isnt "necessary" for everyone else who wishes to enjoy the same trip you had that day in Big Bear. You'd agree with that right?



I get the sense you think you're in a pissing match with me. Not the case.

You've made some claims about the way you use your equipment and thats fine, you're not wrong.

"I'm just sayin" ....

-the primary use of water bottle insulators is to help prevent them from freezing, on say Denali, as you know. Maybe you have some new fancy dancy bottle insulator that kicks the pants off my OR one, because mine wont keep tea hot for a days outing unless its fully stuffed inside my jacket.

-The tribloc is mostly used for self-rescue stuff, or on big walls for hauling etc where a full blown ascender isnt appropriate. I think you'd agree with that too, yes? Of course everyone carries prusiks, they get shoved in your pocket and stay there. As for defining "texas configuration", well, that feels like the ol pissing contest. Dont think I mentioned the rope, but yes, if you wanted to do a traditional multi day aid climb with 30m of rope, you'd better be a magician.

- The kids backpack thing. I own some decent kit, but the thing is, you could easily do pretty much any day hike in socal with a $20 jansport. My opinion, but pretty damn close to fact. Look at the old school guys, climbed like devils and used hemp rope, a stuff sack and nail studded leather boots! Crazy right!? How'd they do that without the Patagonia Ultra-Mountain-Crusher 5000?

I'm just trying to assuage you a little bit since I'm not talking poorly about you, nor was that my intent. I misread a bit, thought someone wanted a list of items to get em started, and wrote that nobody needs that kit to go snowshoeing in Big Bear for the afternoon. I presented something contradictory, but that's it. Wasn't a horrible crime was it?



Unfortunately, its here that you start getting a little pissy. Or maybe you thought I started it. Either way.

I'm not "critiquing your gear". You brought a bunch of stuff you were never in hell going to use on a day hike in Big Bear. Its good stuff, no doubt, but its overkill for Big Bear. That's my opinion, of course.

Its also amazing you have been able to divine the extent of my mountaineering experience and then comment that it seems "limited". Quite frankly, thats bull$$hit. Someone who shows up in Big Bear of all places and goes to the Discovery Center for tips on where to snowshoe seems to have "limited" experience. But....I dont know a single thing about you, so I wouldnt say that. Dont say anything about me like you know me, because you dont.




So we can get off this whole pissing match thing (please), here's some info about me so you do know me a little. I did grow up in Big Bear, I lived in San Diego after that for 7 years and did a lot of rock climbing...trips to JTree,Tahquitz and such. That quickly grew into spring climbs in the sierra. That quickly turned into full winter ascents, for which I found very few climbing partners and went up by myself, a lot. Not terribly smart, but I learned lots and never died or got seriously injured. Being a broke college student and post college kid, we never paid for any knowledge, we just drove up 395 and did it. Pooled our kits, gave the lead everything and away we went. I've only successfully climbed three 14k'ers while I have attempted (some multiple times) maybe 11 times. I attribute that to climbing in difficult winter and spring conditions, often alone, not to lack of ability. I could be wrong though, if I was Reinhold Messner I'm sure I'd have bagged them all! Either way, it was the journey not the destination. Hiking a crowded summer trail to a backed up route just to tick off a list is a terrible way to spend a weekend in my opinion. I've hiked San Gorgonio solo in the winter about a dozen times. Mt Baldy only twice in the winter. I grew up in Big Bear doing all manner of winter and summer sport in the mountains, including cross country skiing (which is scientifically proven to be cooler than snowshoeing) ;). That collective experience is pretty invaluable to me. I've never climbed Mt Ranier, missed an opportunity in the summer of '04 though. Regret that still. And alas, never made it anywhere exotic like Denali to climb either. Was simply too expensive, and now that I have money, is simply not enough time. Damn the double edge sword of aging.

So there it is Jim. Be angry at me for voicing my opinion without cause, but leave the personal stuff at the door. I didnt do it to you, so please refrain from doing it to me (lower post count and all). Anyway, here's a smiley for you to make sure I'm communicating my good will effectively :)

I'd love to hear your climbing stories sometime, maybe over a cold brew

Brad

ps- sorry for the long post, but I dont like leaving things "hanging" ;)
 

teotwaki

Excelsior!
So let's not leave things hanging ..... smiley----> :ylsmoke: After all, it is my thread that is being hijacked. Another smiley ----> :)

Thanks for the efforts to "assuage" me Brad. So, uh, nothing personal here fellow climber, okay? But as one climber to another, you know that feeling you get when some some other climber uses mostly Google hits to post really really long dissertations about their gear and experience? Yeah, your Ol' BS Detector is on full alert so just imagine we are around the loud old XGK-II at some exotic climbing location and we are talking about this guy who happens to be named "Bradd" and what he has said on some forum.

Example:
"Bradd" said -the primary use of water bottle insulators is to help prevent them from freezing, on say Denali, as you know. Maybe you have some new fancy dancy bottle insulator that kicks the pants off my OR one, because mine wont keep tea hot for a days outing unless its fully stuffed inside my jacket.

But we know that the primary use of bottle insulators is to....... wait for it............ INSULATE!!! As you know, right?

Insulate means to stop the transfer of heat into or out of the container. Just as suitable for protecting cold drinks in the summer as it is hot drinks in the winter. Insulation is not winter-specific and it is about temperature, not altitude. Basically nothing to do with Rainier, Denali or even Big Bear. But us guys that spent winter time in the Sierras know that, right? smiley ---->:sombrero: We climbers know that no matter where it is cold or where you are, you insulate your drinking bottles when you have sub-freezing temperatures. I guess that Big Bear is never cold enough to have anything freeze so who needs insulated bottle carriers. I mean, guys who climbed in "nail-studded leather boots" just laughed at frostbite and toe loss. Who needs insulation for anything?

So "Bradd" keeps hammering away at why I used the bottle carriers at Big Bear based on some sort of ownership of (Google Hit??) some "OR one" that just can't handle those cold Big Bear days. Even alluding that I must have some "fancy dancy bottle insulator" that is the sort of thing that can only used on big mountains like Denali and is waaay overkill for a walk in the Big Bear woods that never go below freezing.

Let's also throw in: how little "Bradd" knows about me, how "the double edge sword of aging" stopped his BIG climbs, how he just missed Rainier in '04, and how he used Denali as a reference point for "fancy-dancy" insulator use. Okay, here are two pictures that are easily worth a thousand words:

This actually is on Denali, it was 2005, I was 52 years old and wait... what is that thing in the red circle on the left? Oh my goodness! It is a plain ol' OR (Outdoor Research) insulated water bottle carrier, not some fancy dancy insulator. Wait a minute! I thought that "Bradd" owned his very own OR insulated water bottle carrier?? Hmmmmm, "Bradd"? I and my friends planned and pulled off the whole climb. No fancy dancy guided services for us, nosirree. elk smilie ---->:elkgrin: Just a bunch of us ol' climbing fools. Even "Bradd" seemed to have accidentally summed it up "Pooled our kits, gave the lead everything and away we went."

Oh look, here I am on Rainier too, another year older in 2006 and my third time on the mountain. Gosh, that old age is sure slowing me down! I was there in '04 and I waited for "Bradd" at Camp Muir. It was just a day hike walk in the woods to get there from the Paradise Visitor Center. Simple hike up the snowfield. As you know....


Now we are just climbing buds talking about our true-life experience and how hard it is to believe much of what the other "Bradd" is saying. We just can't believe much of anything that "Bradd" says when he posts vague assertions, half truths and outright mountain goat doo-doo in a thread about a half-day snowshoeing trip. Final smilie 'cuz something is cookin' and maybe even burning :chef:
 

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