Black Friday Ambo
- Thread starter flightcancled
- Start date
flightcancled
Explorer
Curses and sparks...
I've been trying to ditch the isolator and install an auto charging relay but everything I do seems to throw a huge spark and turn the truck on.
At this point it seems what I should do is totally abandon the stock wiring and start over. Seems like I should just put the batteries and the alternators to a power bus under the hood and then run one power line from the bus to the seat where I can mount the ACR and start building backwards for the house battery bank. I'll reconfigure the switch to give power to the truck from each bank instead of each battery and all it a day. That's what I saw in the donor ambo and it's way simpler than this nonsense.
So I figured out that the huge solenoid by the isolator is activated when I crank the ignition. Otherwise it seems it bridges from batteries 1 and 2 from the poles on the isolator. Doesn't that defeat the point of isolation during charging? I'm really confused by this thing. I guess this way once you are started and switch off "both" the batteries are both charging?
At least when I ganged the batteries as a test I had a much easier start and retained a higher voltage after just a few minutes of running the engine. Hopefully once I get this sorted out my power issues will actually be over. I'm hoping that I don't have to turn around and buy another set of starting batteries to replace these which are basically new!
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I've been trying to ditch the isolator and install an auto charging relay but everything I do seems to throw a huge spark and turn the truck on.
At this point it seems what I should do is totally abandon the stock wiring and start over. Seems like I should just put the batteries and the alternators to a power bus under the hood and then run one power line from the bus to the seat where I can mount the ACR and start building backwards for the house battery bank. I'll reconfigure the switch to give power to the truck from each bank instead of each battery and all it a day. That's what I saw in the donor ambo and it's way simpler than this nonsense.
So I figured out that the huge solenoid by the isolator is activated when I crank the ignition. Otherwise it seems it bridges from batteries 1 and 2 from the poles on the isolator. Doesn't that defeat the point of isolation during charging? I'm really confused by this thing. I guess this way once you are started and switch off "both" the batteries are both charging?
At least when I ganged the batteries as a test I had a much easier start and retained a higher voltage after just a few minutes of running the engine. Hopefully once I get this sorted out my power issues will actually be over. I'm hoping that I don't have to turn around and buy another set of starting batteries to replace these which are basically new!
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cjken
Explorer
I think that it makes sense to have the two underhood batteries dedicated to running the truck and the basic systems then the batteries in the box for your extras.
I reconfigured mine so that the manual cutoff switch seperate a the two systems.
It is not complete and still a somewhat experimental setup, but seems to be working for my needs. It is simple which to me means less to go wrong. I try to separate the systems with the manual switch when I am not running, but with my master box switch off there does not seem to be much draw from the box circuits so unless I am camping or using the house battery system fro extended periods it seems it to leave the manual switch on.
I don't yet have good deep cycle batteries in the box as I am still experimenting with the system. I have not wired in the inverter and generator yet.
BTW. I haven't turned up that slide out tray yet. I'm thinking it may have been missing from the "GRE" ambo.
I reconfigured mine so that the manual cutoff switch seperate a the two systems.
It is not complete and still a somewhat experimental setup, but seems to be working for my needs. It is simple which to me means less to go wrong. I try to separate the systems with the manual switch when I am not running, but with my master box switch off there does not seem to be much draw from the box circuits so unless I am camping or using the house battery system fro extended periods it seems it to leave the manual switch on.
I don't yet have good deep cycle batteries in the box as I am still experimenting with the system. I have not wired in the inverter and generator yet.
BTW. I haven't turned up that slide out tray yet. I'm thinking it may have been missing from the "GRE" ambo.
flightcancled
Explorer
So I think you're saying set up the ACR and let it charge the two systems on its own, and then use the selector to manually turn on the house or truck.
That's what I am leaning towards as well, the problem is my whole system is totally integrated right now. I have to figure out how to put the OEM wiring back to stock instead of being tied into the box system. I really want to return the truck systems to being selectable through the ignition switch and use the manual selector to power all aux systems.
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That's what I am leaning towards as well, the problem is my whole system is totally integrated right now. I have to figure out how to put the OEM wiring back to stock instead of being tied into the box system. I really want to return the truck systems to being selectable through the ignition switch and use the manual selector to power all aux systems.
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flightcancled
Explorer
patoz
Expedition Leader
OK, I'm headed out of the door right now to go to a funeral (viewing), but when I get back I'll see if I can help you out.
flightcancled
Explorer
Thanks Pat!!
So far all I can figure out is no matter what I seem to do (besides gang the starting batteries) throws a large relay on the box board and turns on the basic van functions like the light that come on when a door is opened and an open door alarm. There's a gauge 4(?) cable that feeds the box and a little wire labeled start which seem to be the likely culprits.
I googled and found a diagram for standard vanner inverter wiring for ambos, but that doesn't seem to match up too well.
I'm hoping if I can sort this mess out then I can help others make this leap simpler as well...
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So far all I can figure out is no matter what I seem to do (besides gang the starting batteries) throws a large relay on the box board and turns on the basic van functions like the light that come on when a door is opened and an open door alarm. There's a gauge 4(?) cable that feeds the box and a little wire labeled start which seem to be the likely culprits.
I googled and found a diagram for standard vanner inverter wiring for ambos, but that doesn't seem to match up too well.
I'm hoping if I can sort this mess out then I can help others make this leap simpler as well...
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patoz
Expedition Leader
Without being able to see exactly what you have or trace wires, etc. I can't offer much help troubleshooting.
A simple system may consist one or more batteries wired together in parallel and charged simultaneously by the alternator. The system is controlled by a single 'on-off' master battery switch, which will kill the power to the entire vehicle. Ford issued a bulletin on March 1, 1999 which prohibits ambulance builders from disconnecting power to the vehicle itself when this switch is turned off. However, this switch probably kills everything on yours considering the year of manufacture.
If you have a true Dual Battery System, you are dealing with two distinct systems in addition to dual batteries, (1) one being the charging system which includes the alternator and the Battery Isolator or ACR, and (2) the other being the discharge system which includes the Battery Selector Switch (if you have one) and the Vehicle Fuse Panels and Rear/Accessory/Emergency Load Panel. Don't confuse the term 'two systems' with the term 'dual battery' system.
A Dual Battery System can consist of two individual batteries, or two individual banks of batteries consisting of two or more each. I believe you said you had three batteries connected presently, right?
I think the first step is to confirm exactly how each battery is wired in relation to the others, or to what devices, and then we can go from there.
A simple system may consist one or more batteries wired together in parallel and charged simultaneously by the alternator. The system is controlled by a single 'on-off' master battery switch, which will kill the power to the entire vehicle. Ford issued a bulletin on March 1, 1999 which prohibits ambulance builders from disconnecting power to the vehicle itself when this switch is turned off. However, this switch probably kills everything on yours considering the year of manufacture.
If you have a true Dual Battery System, you are dealing with two distinct systems in addition to dual batteries, (1) one being the charging system which includes the alternator and the Battery Isolator or ACR, and (2) the other being the discharge system which includes the Battery Selector Switch (if you have one) and the Vehicle Fuse Panels and Rear/Accessory/Emergency Load Panel. Don't confuse the term 'two systems' with the term 'dual battery' system.
A Dual Battery System can consist of two individual batteries, or two individual banks of batteries consisting of two or more each. I believe you said you had three batteries connected presently, right?
I think the first step is to confirm exactly how each battery is wired in relation to the others, or to what devices, and then we can go from there.
cjken
Explorer
Alex
Both
Mine used the cutoff to completely kill the electrical except for constant items like the clock in the radio and maybe a few other essentials.
They are all pre 99. Black 94, 4x4 95, "GRE" 95.
Whoever removed the box on the 4x4 simply connected the two ends of the that were on either side of the switch together. In driving it for almost a year like that I found that there was no real parasitic battery draw I could let it sit for weeks and it would start right up. So I just added the switch from the donor ambo. Left the two power wires together on one end connected a thick cable to the box system from the other side of the switch.
Mine did not have any type of isolator or anything like that.
The black one has a converter to charge the batteries when plugged in, but no inverter.
Your system must be more complicated, but I think you will be able to ditch the isolator, run the underhood batteries together and use your acr between the box system and the cab system.
If there are any particular pictures you want of mine just ask. I'm not sure that they will show too much
Mine are all single alternator systems.
Both
Mine used the cutoff to completely kill the electrical except for constant items like the clock in the radio and maybe a few other essentials.
They are all pre 99. Black 94, 4x4 95, "GRE" 95.
Whoever removed the box on the 4x4 simply connected the two ends of the that were on either side of the switch together. In driving it for almost a year like that I found that there was no real parasitic battery draw I could let it sit for weeks and it would start right up. So I just added the switch from the donor ambo. Left the two power wires together on one end connected a thick cable to the box system from the other side of the switch.
Mine did not have any type of isolator or anything like that.
The black one has a converter to charge the batteries when plugged in, but no inverter.
Your system must be more complicated, but I think you will be able to ditch the isolator, run the underhood batteries together and use your acr between the box system and the cab system.
If there are any particular pictures you want of mine just ask. I'm not sure that they will show too much
Mine are all single alternator systems.
flightcancled
Explorer
Ok so I managed to gang the batteries and isolate some of my issues. There is still one thing that is funky though:
I finally managed to trace back where power for all the cab systems were coming from to this block where power from the alternator meets the line that runs under the seat.
Notice the black wire which is disconnected. This feeds to the front firewall behind the drivers front headlight.
Here it connects to other wires....
It's basically doing the same thing as the ACC setting in the ignition switch. Now to figure out how to make it work in the ACC position.... Hopefully/maybe.
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I finally managed to trace back where power for all the cab systems were coming from to this block where power from the alternator meets the line that runs under the seat.
Notice the black wire which is disconnected. This feeds to the front firewall behind the drivers front headlight.
Here it connects to other wires....
It's basically doing the same thing as the ACC setting in the ignition switch. Now to figure out how to make it work in the ACC position.... Hopefully/maybe.
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flightcancled
Explorer
Also, despite now being able to gain and retain a full charge I am still getting the battery light and having hard starts.
Unfortunatly the advice from Polksfinest looks to have been spot on about switching to normal starting batteries from marine grade. Damn! At least I can use the ones I have for my house setup...
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Unfortunatly the advice from Polksfinest looks to have been spot on about switching to normal starting batteries from marine grade. Damn! At least I can use the ones I have for my house setup...
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polksfinest
Observer
well I have worked on several party buses for some of my customers that went down that road in the hopes of getting out of putting a bigger alternator or a set of extra battery's not to mention if you know how they build batterys you can't get both deep cycle and lots of cranking amps for starting
flightcancled when you say hard starting are saying cranking slow or just spinning over for awhile before it starts is your motor a IDI?
flightcancled when you say hard starting are saying cranking slow or just spinning over for awhile before it starts is your motor a IDI?
Mountainunicycler
Observer
But what about batteries that are explicitly designed for both a deep(er) cycle and cold cranking amps? I put a pair of these into my ambulance and it starts brilliantly, even on one battery after running the side floodlights for five hours (tire shop people messed with the switches).
flightcancled
Explorer
Polks,
I just don't have much power. The low amps light typically comes on, and all the lights dim down low when the glow plugs cycle. I'm now reaching a good charge, but my cranking amps are still low from these batteries. When I crank it over its not very fast, and often takes at least a second try to get it to start. I thought this would stop with the warm weather, but it's still not wanting to fire up. Once I am running everything is great though...
It's a 92 IDI.
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I just don't have much power. The low amps light typically comes on, and all the lights dim down low when the glow plugs cycle. I'm now reaching a good charge, but my cranking amps are still low from these batteries. When I crank it over its not very fast, and often takes at least a second try to get it to start. I thought this would stop with the warm weather, but it's still not wanting to fire up. Once I am running everything is great though...
It's a 92 IDI.
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