Black Series fire hazard

[calicamper]

Just thought I'd mention this, but Off Grid Trailers is owned by the same parent company that owns Escape and is one of the reasons why I went with OGT. They seem to have a good history, experience, and backing. OGT's standard suspension is the Timbren 3500HD axle-less setup but they just recently announced a new upgrade/retrofit suspension that was co-developed with Fabtech. Looks beefy (and probably expensive) but good to have options. OGT says they expect this to be available as a retrofit for the Timbren for any existing owners that want to upgrade, too.

I wouldn’t surprised if we see this trend across multiple brands. The torsion axle quality/ failure issues are impacting every brand that was using them. When I first started shopping it was being handled by the trailer makers “yeah you got a bad axle we’ll fix it” then it just got worse add parts shortages and the trailer makers started pushing back with call Dexter/Timbren they’ll fix it etc. All while trailer makers and dealers were jacking up prices a $33,000 Taxa Mantis was boosted to $50,000 with no real changes to its design that would make it a $50,000 trailer??. Taxa only started addressing the axle issues when they had brand new trailers sitting on failed axles. Still waiting to see what axle system they switch to.

But its clear that something is wrong with the torsion axle suppliers and trailer builders are no longer going to assume the issue will be fixed by dexter/Timbren etc.

 

[DRAX]

I wouldn’t surprised if we see this trend across multiple brands. The torsion axle quality/ failure issues are impacting every brand that was using them. When I first started shopping it was being handled by the trailer makers “yeah you got a bad axle we’ll fix it” then it just got worse add parts shortages and the trailer makers started pushing back with call Dexter/Timbren they’ll fix it etc. All while trailer makers and dealers were jacking up prices a $33,000 Taxa Mantis was boosted to $50,000 with no real changes to its design that would make it a $50,000 trailer??. Taxa only started addressing the axle issues when they had brand new trailers sitting on failed axles. Still waiting to see what axle system they switch to.

But its clear that something is wrong with the torsion axle suppliers and trailer builders are no longer going to assume the issue will be fixed by dexter/Timbren etc.

I think there needs to be some clarification between the Dexter torsion axles and the Timbren axle-less suspension. They are 100% different in design. The Dexter torsion axles use "rubber bands" inside a square axle beam to carry the weight and provide flex, this provides independent suspension but it is not axle-less, there is still a full tube running under the trailer. The Timbren axle-less suspension has cylindrical pieces of foam/polymer/rubber, similar to giant bump-stops, that sit between the trailing arm and spindle bracket to provide support and dampening. Not quite as good as a proper coil + damper (shock) suspension but it's simple, effective, and easy to work on or replace the cushioning pieces. There is no tube or axle, each assembly bolts to the trailer frame and there is nothing connecting one side to the other.

If Dexter torsion axles are having issues then that should be limited to Dexter, Timbren shouldn't be any part of this as they don't make torsion axles.

 

[calicamper]

I think there needs to be some clarification between the Dexter torsion axles and the Timbren axle-less suspension. They are 100% different in design. The Dexter torsion axles use "rubber bands" inside a square axle beam to carry the weight and provide flex, this provides independent suspension but it is not axle-less, there is still a full tube running under the trailer. The Timbren axle-less suspension has cylindrical pieces of foam/polymer/rubber, similar to giant bump-stops, that sit between the trailing arm and spindle bracket to provide support and dampening. Not quite as good as a proper coil + damper (shock) suspension but it's simple, effective, and easy to work on or replace the cushioning pieces. There is no tube or axle, each assembly bolts to the trailer frame and there is nothing connecting one side to the other.

If Dexter torsion axles are having issues then that should be limited to Dexter, Timbren shouldn't be any part of this as they don't make torsion axles.

Yes different systems Dexter has had fewer issues. Timbren has been the biggest problem for most people. I have come across both designs having similar alignment issues but for different reasons. Given the choice between the two I’d choose Dexter. Given the choice for something other than these two designs I’d likely seriously consider the alternative.

 

[DRAX]

Yes different systems Dexter has had fewer issues. Timbren has been the biggest problem for most people. I have come across both designs having similar alignment issues but for different reasons. Given the choice between the two I’d choose Dexter. Given the choice for something other than these two designs I’d likely seriously consider the alternative.

Hmmm, interesting. I've had some people have tire wear issues due to improper alignment with their Timbren suspension, but alignment/adjustment shouldn't be a problem as camber and toe are both adjustable. If there are alignment problems then that seems like it would be installer/manufacturer error and not a defect with the Timbren. If it were a defect then I would expect Timbren to replace the necessary part(s) under warranty.

My OGT has Timbren suspension, no problems or concerns so far. Having owned both Dexter Torflex and Timbren axle-less trailers I don't see any advantage to the Dexter axles except maybe cheaper cost. The Timbren I can repair/rebuild as needed, can't really do that with the Dexter axles. Plus the Dexter axles reduce ground clearance by a substantial amount.

Maybe I'm not getting the whole picture, but I have to think that if there are problems with the Timbren alignment then that is a reflection of build quality problems with the trailer manufacturer as correct alignment requires the frame be level and square, there's only so much adjustment that can be done to compensate for a crappily-built frame. I'm not dismissing anyone's issues, and I haven't gone down the rabbit hole looking for complaints, I'm just going based off of my own experience with both axles and how they work.

Whatever the case, I hope the issues are resolved.

 

[Obsessed2findARuggedHybid]

I think the joined torsion axles are less prone to the bent or failed swing arms that seem to be a constant failure point in these axles. I don’t doubt that some are likely over loaded or have taken side loading hits from dropping off road shoulders but many are nearly new hardly used trailers that suffer the /-\ bent arm alignment issues which are extreme enough to snag trailer body and fenders which is when many owners discover they have an issue.

That's what I meant to say "joined torsion axles". Great info. Due to my tow vehicle and crazy nervous wife I will limit shoulder drops. Due to garage height reasons I had to go with a drop 4" Timbren but still have 15 " of ground clearance. I realize this is the bare minimum for off road use but I had to get her in my 8 foot garage. Max height will be 102" which is about as high as I want to roll down the free way at. I will have to pull tires and roll in on stab jacks so I will be very intimate with my Timbrens.

 

[Grassland]

I haven't heard about these Timbren failures until now, but to be fair they usually aren't used on larger trailers I thought. At least not the ones I looked at. And by larger I mean not a tear drop.

What have been the failures on the torsion axles? I'm not thrilled to hear I could have defective axles, but I bought a trailer built the first year off COVID so I deserve everything I get.

 

[Obsessed2findARuggedHybid]

Hmmm, interesting. I've had some people have tire wear issues due to improper alignment with their Timbren suspension, but alignment/adjustment shouldn't be a problem as camber and toe are both adjustable. If there are alignment problems then that seems like it would be installer/manufacturer error and not a defect with the Timbren. If it were a defect then I would expect Timbren to replace the necessary part(s) under warranty.

My OGT has Timbren suspension, no problems or concerns so far. Having owned both Dexter Torflex and Timbren axle-less trailers I don't see any advantage to the Dexter axles except maybe cheaper cost. The Timbren I can repair/rebuild as needed, can't really do that with the Dexter axles. Plus the Dexter axles reduce ground clearance by a substantial amount.

Maybe I'm not getting the whole picture, but I have to think that if there are problems with the Timbren alignment then that is a reflection of build quality problems with the trailer manufacturer as correct alignment requires the frame be level and square, there's only so much adjustment that can be done to compensate for a crappily-built frame. I'm not dismissing anyone's issues, and I haven't gone down the rabbit hole looking for complaints, I'm just going based off of my own experience with both axles and how they work.

Whatever the case, I hope the issues are resolved.

I am with you. You guys both know more then I but no way Dexter over timbren. Watching those soild axels lift off the groud when off camber trails freaks me out. At least Timbren has some suspension.

 

[calicamper]

That's what I meant to say "joined torsion axles". Great info. Due to my tow vehicle and crazy nervous wife I will limit shoulder drops. Due to garage height reasons I had to go with a drop 4" Timbren but still have 15 " of ground clearance. I realize this is the bare minimum for off road use but I had to get her in my 8 foot garage. Max height will be 102" which is about as high as I want to roll down the free way at. I will have to pull tires and roll in on stab jacks so I will be very intimate with my Timbrens.

Yeah I gave up on the garage idea 74.5 inches would have been no tires on some sort of rollers approach for a Taxa Mantis. I need to build a level platform to extend a cement pad to move a shed then my side yard becomes long enough to fit a 21ft but that’s literally going to be touching tail to nose.

 

[Obsessed2findARuggedHybid]

I haven't heard about these Timbren failures until now, but to be fair they usually aren't used on larger trailers I thought. At least not the ones I looked at. And by larger I mean not a tear drop.

What have been the failures on the torsion axles? I'm not thrilled to hear I could have defective axles, but I bought a trailer built the first year off COVID so I deserve everything I get.

Check out Taxa Cricket FB and search axel. Most current was Lippert but they had Dexter issues as well. Also Intech and ATC.

 

[calicamper]

I hate this guy but his video gets right to the suspension setup I’m going to look for.
Yes thats the trailer now on my list. No slides!!
Yes it will suffer and need typical Junk RV rebuilding of cabinets and water systems. Electrical is hit or miss in these but simple enough to address. The good news is I won’t be spending more than 20-23k lol

 

[calicamper]

Check out Taxa Cricket FB and search axel. Most current was Lippert but they had Dexter issues as well. Also Intech and ATC.

Yes they had several and had issues with all of them. However!!! Taxa is very popular with first time trailer anything people and I would bet a percentage of their axle issues are poor towing skills related.

 

[emtmark]

Went on a thirty day round the west trip with a buddy who bought a BS. We projected on his setup just about every other day as issues cropped up. I got good at ace hardware store inventory searches to make systems work again. Hardly any trails almost all road miles.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[calicamper]

Went on a thirty day round the west trip with a buddy who bought a BS. We projected on his setup just about every other day as issues cropped up. I got good at ace hardware store inventory searches to make systems work again. Hardly any trails almost all road miles.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I’ve heard the same from other owners

 

[FordGuy1]

Check out Taxa Cricket FB and search axel. Most current was Lippert but they had Dexter issues as well. Also Intech and ATC.

I don't believe that either design is any good. I think they are cheap, and have no business on a trailer used off road. They both will fail with long term us, especially when the suspension is used where it fully cycles.

 

[calicamper]

I don't believe that either design is any good. I think they are cheap, and have no business on a trailer used off road. They both will fail with long term us, especially when the suspension is used where it fully cycles.

I think the design is ok but it’s highly dependent on the component quality which has obviously become degraded to the point that the design lacks durability and service life. Most of us who build stuff have seen great examples of a long time solid product become useless garbage simply due to changes in the materials and quality of the components.