Bulldog 2"X2" reciever mount shank weight ratings??

[Ugly1]

It looks like a beast but I have not seen any weight ratings. Anybody know anything?

Some sights selling it seem to be quoting the shackle ratings for a shackle they've buindled with it for the sale.

I want to know the rating of the receiver.

https://www.etrailer.com/Accessorie...zdnPlzvLB9lKY9pAsDSE9rtweQm7lEiMaAquHEALw_wcB

 

[Metcalf]

It looks like a beast but I have not seen any weight ratings. Anybody know anything?

Some sights selling it seem to be quoting the shackle ratings for a shackle they've buindled with it for the sale.

I want to know the rating of the receiver.

https://www.etrailer.com/Accessorie...zdnPlzvLB9lKY9pAsDSE9rtweQm7lEiMaAquHEALw_wcB

Most companies are going to be very vague with 'load ratings' on recovery gear, or intentionally very conservative.

Generally speaking, you aren't going to break that in recovery work as long as it is made of decent quality material. The normal risk of impact fracturing it applies since it is so exposed to trail damage and will drag over everything if you leave it in place ( which you shouldn't )

Overall, the design is very basic and very overpriced for what it is. You absolutely do not need to use a hard shackle NEAR that big for vehicle recovery, and it will introduce more danger into the system with all the extra mass. For use with soft shackles, that is a poor design, the corner radii are minimal and will decrease the life and load capacity of a soft shackle.

The hitch pin itself is generally going to be the 'weak' link outside of the hitch sub-assembly. An average quality hitch pin is going to fail above 30,000lbs if properly supported, a great quality pin is going to fail north of 60,000lbs ( and nothing else of the vehicle will take that kind of load ). Keep the mass of anything connected past the hitch pin to a minimum.

This is how I hook to a hitch these days.....



Regards

 

[Ugly1]

Thank you for your comments. Great points.

I agree and it was my thinking also that by the look of it, it is unlikely I'd be able to break it. That is kind of the idea but still too bad it doesn't appear to be rated like many of the aluminum ones seem to be. It's easy to polish up a poor quality piece and I don't know the manufacturers creds. I trust real testing far more than bling factor.

I was kind of hoping questions on a high profile website about this expensive/unknown quality item may even prompt a response from th manufacturer if they believe in their product and have done the necessary testing. I mean what on earth else justifies this kind of pricing if they have not even bothered to get the regulatory testing done? Without that I would probably shop elsewhere despite it's burly appearance.

Though if it were rated, and I get how in theory the added mass of a shackle is a risk, if the risk is so low it is negligible, due to the likelihood of things actually failing maybe there are tradeoff making it worth consideration for some people.

I kind of like the idea of a big blob of metal like that used with a rigging rated shackle of that size, high quality pin, hitch etc. being such overkill as to make it pracically impossible to break in my application. I'd guess it would also be very tolerant of abuse compared with synthetic ropes.

 

[Ugly1]

lol check it out. eTrailer gave me my own webpage.

https://www.etrailer.com/question-680232.html

hmm. Is that your qualified legal opinion there, Mr Jon G @ eTrailer? haha prerty cool. my 15 minutes is now!

 

[Metcalf]

lol check it out. eTrailer gave me my own webpage.

https://www.etrailer.com/question-680232.html

hmm. Is that your qualified legal opinion there, Mr Jon G @ eTrailer? haha prerty cool. my 15 minutes is now!

Their answer was terrible. Just because the shackle has a 'rating' the device must be rated for that too.....no.....not at all.

There is ALWAYS a risk that the stuff attached to the hitch becomes a projectile, and that is why a lot of companies, including mine, have made strides towards trying to minimize all that mass to make it as safe as possible. It doesn't have to be a catastrophic failure either, I have seen more than one person forget to get the hitch pin all the way into place under the stress of a complex or rushed recovery.

That device is not really 'overkill' in any way, it is just a poor design where they are using a HUGE shackle because it 'looks' cool, not because it serves any additional function. The large/long shackle is also going to add a lot of additional leverage if it was side loaded.

As far as 'tolerance of abuse' compared to soft rigging...not really. Everything that has to do with vehicle recovery has a life, hard or soft. As I mentioned before, the critical part in this rigging is the pin in the hitch ( if you want to spend a bit of extra money, spend it on a quality hitch pin ). This large shackle is just ridiculous for zero reason along with a ton of extra cost along and weight. ?‍♂️

 

[Ugly1]

Yeah. Their answer is weak sauce. Not satisfying. Left out important detail I am after.

I was looking at your site and your soft shackle reciever adapter idea looks good. Have you ever tested any of the 2" versions to the point of failure?

Pragmatically, the Bulldog shank only needs to be stronger than the rope I'm using. At 17T WLL, it has ridiculously higher WLL than any other 2" hitch shackle adapters I've seen. Even if you assume there is no margin of safety beyond the 17T WLL, and it immediatly fails at 34001lbs, it is still plenty for what I'm doing. I would never have any need to use it outside it's WLL. Though realistically, if I took an uneducated guess I'd bet that big blob of metal has a failure point well beyond its 17T WLL and so presumably a fair level of margin of safety before coming close to it's point of failure.

Not to say I'm sold on it or anything.Etrailer seems to have their name all over it and presmably something to lose if they give bad advice, maybe I'll ask what the breaking point is and see what they say.

And as you pointed out, at some level the pin becomes the limiting factor. I've only found 5/8" pins rated up to around 50-60k lbs or so. But there is also the question of the hitch and it's mounting but I will be sure and address all of that. If any of that stuff fails there will likely be some high energy projectiles.

 

[Metcalf]

Yeah. Their answer is weak sauce. Not satisfying. Left out important detail I am after.

I was looking at your site and your soft shackle reciever adapter idea looks good. Have you ever tested any of the 2" versions to the point of failure?

Pragmatically, the Bulldog shank only needs to be stronger than the rope I'm using. At 17T WLL, it has ridiculously higher WLL than any other 2" hitch shackle adapters I've seen. Even if you assume there is no margin of safety beyond the 17T WLL, and it immediatly fails at 34001lbs, it is still plenty for what I'm doing. I would never have any need to use it outside it's WLL. Though realistically, if I took an uneducated guess I'd bet that big blob of metal has a failure point well beyond its 17T WLL and so presumably a fair level of margin of safety before coming close to it's point of failure.

Not to say I'm sold on it or anything. Etrailer seems to have their name all over it and presmably something to lose if they give bad advice, maybe I'll ask what the breaking point is and see what they say.

And as you pointed out, at some level the pin becomes the limiting factor. I've only found 5/8" pins rated up to around 50-60k lbs or so. But there is also the question of the hitch and it's mounting but I will be sure and address all of that. If any of that stuff fails there will likely be some high energy projectiles.

Yes, the SSRA devices have been tested, but it isn't something I can put individual 'numbers' on ( other than the soft shackle), because it is HIGHLY subjective to what it would be hooked to. A Jeep hitch ( 'rated' for less towing weight ) is going to fail before a hitch on a F350 truck. I can make a test rig that breaks the hitch pin every time, but that requires thicker wall tubing than we would ever see on a vehicle. Overall, the 2" receiver hitch system is limited by the 5/8 pin ( or the physical structure of the hitch tube itself tears out at the pin hole ). These are the reasons that you want to minimize the mass connected past the pin. It is relatively repeatable to know when the soft shackle will break for MBS....which is above 45500lbs in my case.

You are never ever going to break that ridiculously large bow shackle. I've never even seen anyone, in recreational recovery work, break a 'normal' 5/8 or 3/4" bow shackle. I have seen some get tweaked, specifically by off line pulling or cross loading.

What I do pretty commonly see is breaking whatever that shackle is attached to. I will say most receiver hitch assemblies have fairly predictable 'visible' failures before catastrophic failure......mainly bending the crossmember that connects frame rail to frame rail.

Use what you want. I am just trying to keep people safe(r). NOBODY needs a 1.25"+ hard shackle for recovery work in a 2" receiver hitch. Bigger is not always better.

 

[Ugly1]

Thank you very much for sharing your wisdom on this stuff and the data regarding your testing.

You make a very strong point abbout removing as many as possible heavy metalic objects, which could have incredibly huge potential energies when line tension is high. You seem to have swayed me in this direction. For whatever reason, the slightly better bend radius of your solution just feels better than putting the soft shackly directly on the pin as I've seem some advocating for.

There is a lot to think about with this stuff it seems.

When I enterred this thread I was wondering about biggest baddest metal that will never break. Maybbe the better approach is limiting negative side effects when it does happen. Hmmm

.....If the hitch pin is the limiting factor, it makes me wonder about: why not use 2...ie a redundant pin in parallel. Maybe that really would be overkill for most people and probably only makes sense in a couple products on the market such as this Buldog reciever shank.

 

[Metcalf]

Thank you very much for sharing your wisdom on this stuff and the data regarding your testing.

You make a very strong point abbout removing as many as possible heavy metalic objects, which could have incredibly huge potential energies when line tension is high. You seem to have swayed me in this direction. For whatever reason, the slightly better bend radius of your solution just feels better than putting the soft shackly directly on the pin as I've seem some advocating for.

There is a lot to think about with this stuff it seems.

When I enterred this thread I was wondering about biggest baddest metal that will never break. Maybbe the better approach is limiting negative side effects when it does happen. Hmmm

.....If the hitch pin is the limiting factor, it makes me wonder about: why not use 2...ie a redundant pin in parallel. Maybe that really would be overkill for most people and probably only makes sense in a couple products on the market such as this Buldog reciever shank.

Good to hear. I'm not saying you have to use my device, but the device you posted is a pretty poor example of the wrong direction to go in my opinion.

My SSRA device provides a LOT of other bonuses over going directly to the pin. The hitch pins are designed to be supported in double shear. If you just put something around the middle of them, they can and will bend. If you are lucky they only bend and get stuck. If you are unlucky, the bending can pull in the short side and cause a catastrophic release. So yes, the increased bend radius is one bonus, but the proper pin support is also very important. The soft shackle is also directly loading the pin and does not require an additional connection point to worry about. The mouth of the SSRA is also radiused in every direction so that the sharp edge of the receiver hitch isn't cutting into your soft shackle reducing its life or strength. You an also change direction up to 90 degree in any direction without having to worry about loading the device wrong of creating weird side loads. While I never suggest leaving the device in the hitch full time ( take care of your gear and your gear will take care of you! ), none of the aluminum bits are exposed to repetitive damage on the trail.

I could make a strong argument that the industry should be looking at making a 'fuse' somewhere vs just making everything bigger and stronger all the time.

The double hitch pin might solve one issue, but honestly, I doubt anyone could actually break a decent quality 5/8" pin with any commercially available hitch assembly on a vehicle. I have seen hitch devices fail because the pin was not properly seated....or something like a cheap bolt was used to replace the pin. 30-60k lbs is a ridiculously large amount of force and we shouldn't be anywhere near that doing recovery work. That much force has the potential to do all kinds of damage to other things on the vehicle. When in doubt, use more shovel!