Canadian Disco 2 Build

[michaels]

no thats the economy of scale...

thank God rovers are getting cheaper. more people are offroading them, which means more aftermarket parts are being bought, which means stuff is getting cheaper. justin has already brought down the prices nicely compared to what GBR used to monopolize them at. it's nice to see everything forced to be cheaper due to supply and demand.

 

[Root Moose]

no thats the economy of scale...

I agree, but what I don't get is if LRs are popular in the UK and other parts of the world then there must be a certain critical mass. Maybe not Dana scale but you follow what I mean.

Sure, add a bit for shipping... At $400 someone is gouging. If a company can have Dana style gears made in India or China and retail for < $200 (Yukon, etc.) someone is making huge profit on the LR stuff. IIRC Toyota gears are over priced as well.

Anyway, not like anyone can do anything about it I guess. Stuff like this just bugs the p!ss out of me is all.

 

[muskyman]

I agree, but what I don't get is if LRs are popular in the UK and other parts of the world then there must be a certain critical mass. Maybe not Dana scale but you follow what I mean.

Sure, add a bit for shipping... At $400 someone is gouging. If a company can have Dana style gears made in India or China and retail for < $200 (Yukon, etc.) someone is making huge profit on the LR stuff. IIRC Toyota gears are over priced as well.

Anyway, not like anyone can do anything about it I guess. Stuff like this just bugs the p!ss out of me is all.

Land Rover heavy duty parts are built in batches of the hundreds. Jeep parts are built in batches of the tens of thousands. You just cant put them in the same bucket and expect there to be cost comparisons.

There have been some steps in the right direction in the recent years and there are some great vendors dedicated to selling parts at fair prices, and that has been great for the Land Rover enthusiast community for sure but you just can not expect the stuff to ever cost the same.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

I agree, but what I don't get is if LRs are popular in the UK and other parts of the world then there must be a certain critical mass. Maybe not Dana scale but you follow what I mean.

Well... I find that, for whatever reason, stuff made and/or for sale in the UK is much more expensive than a similar item in the US. It's the same deal in Canada. Heck, you get Canadian companies manufacturing things in Canada (say, Skidoos) that turn around and sell them for less in the US than in Canada.

Or even small volume things. Like, getting tires mounted and balanced. That's a small batch operation. Costs $10/tire in the US, and $20/tire in Canada.

There's a lot of reasons why, but mostly it's just because... they can. Consumers in the US, just expect and are able to pay less. I don't know what came first, chicken or the egg, but that's the way it is.

And then, since Land Rovers and Toyotas in the US aren't as popular as Chevs and Jeeps, that same pricing anomaly carries over. And the effect is not completely explained away by economies of scale. There's more to it than that.

 

[I Leak Oil]

It's supply and demand....The demand is small and the supply even smaller.
And yes, the fact that it's for a Land Rover will tend to make it more expensive than if it were for a Chevy. Probably not as much of a factor as the small batches they are built in though.

 

[Funrover]

I like the rear bumper!

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Who's Bumper?

 

[AlexJet]

Posting up a few pics from my last trip. I went to Camp Northern Lights which is a large, organized trail weekend, mostly populated by Jeeps. I did meet Len there with a D90, can't remember his last name, he's on D-90 Source. Anyway, on Friday I did the Shoelace Lake trail, which involves one very deep water crossing. Basically the trail wades through a narrow passage between two lakes, but the passage has also been dredged to allow boats to pass through. No problem on this crossing, the snorkel made it much less stressful. Last year this trail was closed because it was just too deep due to recent weather.

The trail also had one really bad rock outcropping.

I couldn't get over this way, it was just too sharp at the top and I kept getting hung up on the "elephant ears" suspension mounts on the bottom of the frame. Backing off, sitting on the back bumper:

I ended up going around the side, which had a better break angle at the top, but was just a little off camber.

On Saturday, I went on Crystal Lake Trail. I did this trail last year, and it was drier this year and generally easier. This one section had had a new bypass cut in it, but my truck was too big to fit through. I asked somebody who'd been through it a few weeks prior with a big Jeep if "were any rocks or anything in it that would stop me" and he said no. Now, I knew also the story that he had tried it and sucked water in his engine (no snorkel), but figured with my snorkel I'd be fine. Little did I know that the bottom was filled with silty mud, unlike last year. I think what happened is that since it was so wet last year, and the bypass had been cut, so the main route was going unused and silt/mud is building up in it. Anyway, so I got in about 20 feet and then was stuck good.

Len ended up snatching me out with his D-90 (thanks!). In the meantime, the truck had filled up with foul water. I knew pretty soon that something was wrong with the transmission. The Transmission Control computer is on the floor under the driver's seat. Most of the gear indicators were not working, and it seemed like I could only select 1st gear. My speakers started making pretty bad noises as the amplifier (also under the seat) went on the fritz, so I pulled those fuses. I asked the Jeep guy "I thought you said there wasn't anything in there that would get me stuck?" to which he replied "I said there were no rocks". <scowl>

Anyway, I ended up having to winch the truck up onto the bypass and cut down a few small trees to get through. I removed the Transmission Controller to avoid doing more damage and set it to dry on the passenger seat. Now with the M and S lights flashing, and stuck in 3rd gear (low and high were both selectible) I limped through the rest of the trail. On the drive back to camp, the truck started overheating on the highway. I think I saw 217°F on the scanguage, or it might have been as high as 224, I can't remember. The engine temp gauge had not moved into the red. I slowed down and it went back under 210. The AC condenser was plugged with mud, which I hosed out, and all returned to normal in that regard. Though I discovered the Aux electric fan has probably not been working for some time, as it is seized. Anyway, I'm running about 200°F now on the highway with the A/C on which seems not too bad. I don't seem to have damaged the engine, I hope, as it's not making any bad noises yet.

So, now on to the wet transmission controller. I was pretty concerned with the cost of the thing. I found some Electrical Contact and Switch cleaner at the local small-town hardware store. I removed the controller from the bracket, and opened up the case by prying back the ears. Now with the board exposed, I hosed it off with the cleaner. Blew it off with air, and it was better but still not right. I tried again, this time spraying cleaner between the board and the aluminum plate which was still attached, it's a tight space. Success! The controller seems fine now, very pleased with that.

Sunday I ran Old Logging and Concession Lake trail without any issues. I have a few more photos that are on another computer for now.

So that was you who got the award of "don't go there - I have snorkel, so I'll do" on Saturday night. I remember that story.
Me personaly, like the Shoelace water crossing. I have snorkel too, so it's fun as well...
P.S. You should seen my 4Runner on the Camp NL this summer. Next year I might bring 3rd Gen as well. :victory:

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Yeah, that was me. They spun the story a certain way to make me look bad. I was told that the reason they didn't make it a few weeks prior, was because they sucked in water. They didn't mention anything about the silt. I specifically asked if there were any rocks or anything like that that would stop me, or if deep water was the only problem. I asked this several times, and they said no. We discussed about which would be better, the tight bypass or the water, and thought I had concensus that the water would be better. The bypass was too tight for my truck, and if deep water was the only problem, it would be easier for me to go that way since I had the snorkel. In fact, I had no problem with the water depth, my truck stayed running the whole time. I just got stuck in the silty bottom, which the "guides" didn't tell me about.

After I got unstuck and attempted the bypass, I had to winch the truck up onto a bank, and cut down a few trees to get through. The bypass was created by 2 door Jeeps, not big trucks. It was in fact difficult, and I wasn't just trying to show off my snorkel by taking the wet route.

Then after it happened, I get this "I told you so" attitude. I tried to be a good sport about the whole thing, but I definitely have trouble trusting those guys in the future.

Now, I think I do remember you... you have a Russian (?) accent? Silver truck? I think you wheeled with a guy name Bryce on Saturday?

 

[AlexJet]

Yeah, that was me. They spun the story a certain way to make me look bad. I was told that the reason they didn't make it a few weeks prior, was because they sucked in water. They didn't mention anything about the silt. I specifically asked if there were any rocks or anything like that that would stop me, or if deep water was the only problem. I asked this several times, and they said no. We discussed about which would be better, the tight bypass or the water, and thought I had concensus that the water would be better. The bypass was too tight for my truck, and if deep water was the only problem, it would be easier for me to go that way since I had the snorkel. In fact, I had no problem with the water depth, my truck stayed running the whole time. I just got stuck in the silty bottom, which the "guides" didn't tell me about.

After I got unstuck and attempted the bypass, I had to winch the truck up onto a bank, and cut down a few trees to get through. The bypass was created by 2 door Jeeps, not big trucks. It was in fact difficult, and I wasn't just trying to show off my snorkel by taking the wet route.

Then after it happened, I get this "I told you so" attitude. I tried to be a good sport about the whole thing, but I definitely have trouble trusting those guys in the future.

Now, I think I do remember you... you have a Russian (?) accent? Silver truck? I think you wheeled with a guy name Bryce on Saturday?

Kind of... Black 4Runner with 5" lift Long-Travel suspension 35" tires, and 360 degrees protection (bumpers, tube fender guards, sliders...) I was with my buddy on yellow FJ build about the same way.
I lost my British accent... Was it that bad, that it can be noticeable?
Drive next time with me and my buddy. Our trucks are wide enough so you'd poss everywhere we do. I understand you about tiny Jeep bypasses. 90% of the trail guides are TJs, so when they do pre-run the trails, they make them passible for them...

 

[R_Lefebvre]

So do you remember a guy named Bryce from Saturday? Yellow TJ Rubicon "Extreme" (if that's the name, the long wheelbase 2-door). If you are the guy I'm thinking of, I think you and him talked.

Anyway, I'm getting a small list of like-minded guys from the Toronto area. We should try to get together sometime. I'd love to get some trails in before the snow comes deep. I also know a couple good guys with JK's.

 

[michaelgroves]

Well... I find that, for whatever reason, stuff made and/or for sale in the UK is much more expensive than a similar item in the US. It's the same deal in Canada. Heck, you get Canadian companies manufacturing things in Canada (say, Skidoos) that turn around and sell them for less in the US than in Canada.

Or even small volume things. Like, getting tires mounted and balanced. That's a small batch operation. Costs $10/tire in the US, and $20/tire in Canada.

There's a lot of reasons why, but mostly it's just because... they can. Consumers in the US, just expect and are able to pay less. I don't know what came first, chicken or the egg, but that's the way it is.

It drives me crazy that so many things here in the UK cost about as much in £'s as they do in $'s in the States, even though the exchange rate is 1.6:1. For US made goods, I can perhaps understand it, but it seems to apply to goods made in the rest of the world too. In fact, it even applies to lots of goods made here in Britain.

Ok, one reason is that we have 17.5% VAT included in the price of almost all products sold. But still...

I think you're right - American consumers have a tradition of demanding and receiving good value, perhaps because by comparison, the market there is more competitive and offers more choice. The good thing is, we've been moving in that direction over the past 40 years - things have come a long way since the dismal trade-union controlled days of the 1970s!

 

[Mercedesrover]

Why you guys do this with your trucks is beyond me. This isn't overlanding. This is ruining good equipment for no good reason. For what? I just don't get it. No mater what you see in magazines, advertisements and forum boards, and no mater what you think your truck is capable of, (even with your snorkel), you shouldn't be doing this with your truck. A modern, computer controlled, carpeted truck is not made to be stuck in three feet of water....no mater what the salesman at the dealership told you.

 

[bobDog]

Why you guys do this with your trucks is beyond me. This isn't overlanding. This is ruining good equipment for no good reason. For what? I just don't get it. No mater what you see in magazines, advertisements and forum boards, and no mater what you think your truck is capable of, (even with your snorkel), you shouldn't be doing this with your truck. A modern, computer controlled, carpeted truck is not made to be stuck in three feet of water....no mater what the salesman at the dealership told you.

LOL.....I know I always go out of my way to avoid going in over the floor boards....yet some times I've had someone ductape the bottom of the doors etc and pushed it but only cause i was beyond the turn back stage or I really wanted to go on no matter what. But if it was a round trip and i knew I had to do it twice I might not do it. It's very expensive messing w/ water crossing like this one. Hey some folks just have too much money!:Wow1:Here's to folks like this keeping manufacturing and labor going.

:coffeedrink:

 

[Z O O R O P A]

Why you guys do this with your trucks is beyond me. This isn't overlanding. This is ruining good equipment for no good reason. For what? I just don't get it. No mater what you see in magazines, advertisements and forum boards, and no mater what you think your truck is capable of, (even with your snorkel), you shouldn't be doing this with your truck. A modern, computer controlled, carpeted truck is not made to be stuck in three feet of water....no mater what the salesman at the dealership told you.

lol so true, marketing spins evil webs but is fun. In many areas of the country you really can't "overland" without ripping the paint off


ps - matter*




pps - what is with the elitist "bought is not built" remarks lately? Not to put to fine a point on it but it is after all simply overlanding/off roading isn't it? is your experience more authentic or something? certainly putting your own creative skills to work is gratifying but seems a bit patronizing and is tough to understand. Unless you're riding a live animal for a vehicle or something non mechanical like your own two legs to walk countless miles where do you draw the line? Changing a shock on the trail or what type/kind of trails you've been on and their difficulty rating doesn't define your prowess exactly, or maybe to some it does and that is OK or should be i suppose just seems a bit uncouth although i heartily applaud ingenuity. No offense* to anyone's sensibility