CB Radios - Does size really matter?

[Scenic WonderRunner]

A Real Life CB Radio Experience......


I have an old Johnson CB Radio from 1976...and a Wilson 1000 mag mount antenna mounted on my roof with the SWR set perfect. With this set up, I have been able to talk as far as 60 miles.

Here is a recent real life experience at a spring 2008 event in Sedona that included ExPo members.

SedonaFest 2008...........

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11963&highlight=sedonafest2008&page=3

On the last day of the event, I headed up Schnebly Hill to camp along the Mogollon Rim that night. On my way up, I passed one of the Expeditioneers who was heading back down to camp along the creek. We were able to talk on the CB the whole way. I made it to the top of the Rim. And he made it to the original SedonaFest camp. There was a huge mountain between us, and camp is way down in the hole along the creek. After looking on maps, I feel this is at least 10 miles as the crow flies, maybe more. He was amazed we could keep talking. We were talking very loud and I'm sure we had much more range beyond this.

http://expeditioneers.com/Expeditioneers.html

Now.....

On the way up Schnebly, I figured out I could also talk with Weezerbot. But only about up to one mile away. They kept fading in and out. I finally met up with them on the Rim for views. We all had a chat. Then they headed East. Within a couple of min. / or about a mile over flat terrain, we could not talk.

~~~~~~~~

If these folks could speak up and tell us about their set up...maybe we could learn something.

I feel it's really All about the quality of your antenna and if it's tuned and placed properly.

I love my CB Radio and will never give it up! I also like 2 meter and hope to get one, one day.



Talking down over this mountain into the SedonaFest camp.....

 

[mr r2fj]

We've got a cobra 75 wx st with a firefly firestik out the back of a bracket attached to the rear door hinge. I've found that the type of elevation you dealt with during sedonafest (look for sedonafest 09 announcement soon!) plays a huge factor in range. I'm with just about everyone here though, it's all in the antenna. A mag, or better yet permanent install, mount at the center of the roof seems to be the best. Ours isn't idea but due to the rack and tent taking up the entire roof it's what we had to go with. I can usually get a couple of miles, which is more than enough for CB use usually. If people want more they should really consider just taking the easy tech test and going ham.

I do not recommend the cobra 75 though. Several people in our group have all had the speaker go bad and others have had it stop working all together. We had to move to an external speaker after our speaker died. Which is fine, but I expected a bit more out of it. With that said, the ST feature is pretty nice. It's a "signal tracking" feature that somehow "locks on" to the voice signal and removes a LOT of background noise. I've tested it several times and it really does seem to work well. I haven't seen many radios with this feature, so that's one plus to the cobra 75.

The firestik mounted where we have it works great. I'm not sure if I'd put one on the roof though. It would probably take a pretty good beating while it is more flexible, it isn't going to bend in half like a whip.

 

[Photog]

I'm with SWR on the antenna. Mag or permanent mount, near the middle of the roof.

A good quality radio. It does not have to be a big-box radio. The two best small-box radios I know of are Uniden Pro510XL or the Magnum Mini. The Magnum Mini is actually a 10m radio, that also allows CB freqs. It is designed to have more power than a typical CB, an I'm not sure how or if they curtail that power within the CB freqs. The Mini-Mag needs a powered mic, as it is very clear, not very loud.

I would recommend RadioActiveRadio for the Uniden or the Mini-Mag, and have them tune it. It is only about $50 for the tuned radio.

Past experience of many friends suggest the Cobra 75 does not qualify as a "good quality" radio. It is functional and it will work, but not for long, and not very well. Many folks have never used anything but a Cobra 75, and don't have any idea how good a CB can actually work.

Here is how my Magnum-Mini is mounted, using industrial velcro. (I have moved the GPS to a better location than what is shown here). The CB is attached to the left side of the console.

I use this with a Mag-mount Wilson antenna. This antenna has taken a beating with tree limbs and coverd parking, that no Firestick would ever survive. As mag-mount antennas go, I don't know of any better than the Wilsons. Mine is the Lil' Wil. The Wilson Mag mount 1000 or 2000 would work better; but they are so tall, they just get hammered by everything. So I use the shorter antenna, mounted in the prime location (center of roof).

My way isn't the only way; but it does work very, very well; and it is very durable and dependable. Next time, I will get a tuned Uniden.

Note: The big-box radios have room in them for better systems. Any vehicle that has room for a good quality big-box radio, should use one. My vehicle does not have room, unless I want to crowd the passenger.

 

[soonenough]

...The Magnum Mini is actually a 10m radio, that also allows CB freqs. It is designed to have more power than a typical CB, an I'm not sure how or if they curtail that power within the CB freqs.

Not trying to sound like a nazi or a stickler, but isn't that illegal? The reason I ask is because I've seen a lot of complaints amongst the ham radio crowd (not on this site) about people on hacked CBs intruding on 10m and other ham radio bands without a license.

 

[mr r2fj]

A good quality radio. It does not have to be a big-box radio. The two best small-box radios I know of are Uniden Pro510XL or the Magnum Mini. The Magnum Mini is actually a 10m radio, that also allows CB freqs. It is designed to have more power than a typical CB, an I'm not sure how or if they curtail that power within the CB freqs. The Mini-Mag needs a powered mic, as it is very clear, not very loud.

The mag mini is only rated for 28.000 to 29.690 MHz Frequency Range? Those are outside the "normal" CB 1-40 frequencies. Do they sell another radio that works on CB freqs?

Not trying to sound like a nazi or a stickler, but isn't that illegal? The reason I ask is because I've seen a lot of complaints amongst the ham radio crowd (not on this site) about people on hacked CBs intruding on 10m and other ham radio bands without a license.

If it only transmits 4w on the cb frequencies it would not be illegal. He does mention that he does not know if the radio does that or not. Outside of the CB frequencies you would need a license where required. Only illegal if you transmit on that without a license (but I'm sure you know all this).

 

[Lynn]

Only illegal if you transmit on that without a license (but I'm sure you know all this).

If you'll allow me to be pedantic for just a moment...

The FCC requires every radio to be ‘type accepted.’ I doubt that any 10m is FCC approved for CB freqs.

For this same reason it is illegal to ‘open up’ a 2m radio and use it on SAR or CAP frequencies, even if you are on a team and otherwise legal to use those frequencies.

Not that I necessarily agree with the FCC on the topic… I ‘opened up’ my 2m HT, for emergency use only, and would really have liked to use it for SAR since it was a much nicer radio then the SAR ones. But, of course, I would never do that nor suggest that it should be done, as it is, strictly speaking, illegal.

 

[Lynn]

Now, back to our regularly scheduled program…

I used to have a couple of Cobra handhelds that had removable battery packs. When I used them in a vehicle I removed the battery packs and used the cigarette lighter adapter. The resulting radio looked a whole lot like the compact radios shown above. I used external mag-mount antennas. And I still had the option of reassembling it into a portable, if the need should arise.

Instead of using an external speaker, I used a speaker mic. I liked having the option of holding just the little speaker mic rather than holding the CB, even though the whole CB wasn't very big. Also, with the speaker mic, it was very easy to just hold the speaker up next to your ear if there was too much ambient noise or something.

Now, having said all that, years ago I pitched ‘em in the attic, and I think they went in the last yard sale. I don't have any travel partners that use CBs any more, and have found that there are just too many jerks out there wanting to interfere with a perfectly good conversation. I've got several cheap FRS handhelds and loan them out to travel partners that don't have FRS. I'm amazed at how the higher frequency radios work so well from inside a car. My old CBs wouldn't get through the glass…


LATER THAT SAME DAY: I just looked at those Midlands, and that looks like a lot sweeter option than what I described above. Still recommend looing into a speaker mic if that's an option.

 

[mr r2fj]

Now, having said all that, years ago I pitched ‘em in the attic, and I think they went in the last yard sale. I don't have any travel partners that use CBs any more, and have found that there are just too many jerks out there wanting to interfere with a perfectly good conversation. I've got several cheap FRS handhelds and loan them out to travel partners that don't have FRS. I'm amazed at how the higher frequency radios work so well from inside a car. My old CBs wouldn't get through the glass…

It's all about external antennas (which of course are illegal on FRS equipment per FCC regulations). The external antenna on a CB radio will get you a lot better performance than a hand held FRS. Hand held to hand held, I agree, frs is far superior plus you get FM vs AM. I've often found that if it's travel partners I'm traveling with then we're really close and there isn't a 1000w illegal in line amp I haven't been able to filter out yet by just turning up the squelch. When you're that close to one other that usually makes the conversation "private" enough. Very important when traveling on interstates if you don't like hearing an F bomb every 10 seconds.

As for the legal discussion. I agree with you, I'm quite certain there are no type accepted radios that do both CB and say general ham 10m frequencies. Hence my first question about the mini-mag frequencies. Still, lots of ham radios monitor frequencies that they cannot transmit on and it's not unthinkable that a radio would have been created that allowed this. That is why I said "only illegal to transmit without license". For emergency situations it does not matter, you can transmit on any frequency in a matter of life or death.

 

[Photog]

10m questions/answers.

The Mini-Magnum is advertised as a 10m radio. I have not found it advertised anywhere as a CB. Never-the-less, mine is definitely a 40 channel CB. There are a number of different freq bands that it can be switched too; and I have done so. In all of those other bands, I have not been able to hear any communications, and it is not a scanner channel scanner, so I have to switch it manually.

I suppose it is possible that the company I bought this radio from, adjusted the output for CB only. I don't have a HAM lisence yet, so I have not tried calling out on any of the other freq bands. I do have a list of the freqs that it is supposed to work on; but I don't know how to go about testing it, or if those other freqs are even useful in the USA.

It might be a better idea to just avoid the Mini-Mag, and get a Uniden, or if you can spare a little more space, one of the small Galaxy radios, such as the 919, 929 or 979 (979 has side band).

EDIT: I found a setup instruction sheet for the Magnum Mini. There are a set of jumpers on the circuit board, that allow 4 different configurations. Mine is set up for CB-only freqs.
1) CB (26.965 - 27.405)
2) 120 channel
3) 400 channel
4) 10 meter

The HAM radio users discuss this radio, and say it is complete junk for HAM purposes, and might be over powered for legal CB usage. As a CB it does work very well; but I will have to check the power output.

 

[soonenough]

If you'll allow me to be pedantic for just a moment...

The FCC requires every radio to be ‘type accepted.' I doubt that any 10m is FCC approved for CB freqs.

For this same reason it is illegal to ‘open up' a 2m radio and use it on SAR or CAP frequencies, even if you are on a team and otherwise legal to use those frequencies.

I think that's what I was thinking of. Thanks for the info

And sorry for the hijack. I didn't know the answer to that question, so I figured I'd ask [/hijack]

 

[Scenic WonderRunner]

I do not believe that it's only about altitude for long distance. Yes it does help.

I can sit in my driveway in Scram Diego and consistantly talk 20 to 30 miles away.....and these guys know me....we do this consistantly!

It's all about the antenna. The proper location of installation. The setting of the SWR properly.

And........!

The "Radiator".

If you stick an antenna on a front bumper pipe, or a roof rack pipe.....or out back on a metal stick. You just won't have the radiator, proper reflective power, to send out long distance. Plus...in most of these case's, you will have the body Blocking!

I wish I could find the link right now to the site that I posted up before that talks about the "radiator" . But it's gone.

Look at it like this. If you had a huge Suburban. And you stuck a cb antenna right in the middle of that huge metal roof...........you would have the best and most massive Radiator! You would be amazed how far you could talk.


Somebody please help look up the CB Radio Antenna Radiator...because it's Very Important! I Promise!

If you can't talk more than one mile.....something is very wrong!


.

 

[AndrewP]

Radio is radio, and so it's all about the antenna. Here is the CB to get: Uniden 510 at WallMart. Maybe $35 on a bad day. A Wilson magnetic mount 1000 or 5000 will get you the best performance ever with CB, and it isn't permanent. Tune the mast of whatever antenna you get to a nice low swr, and that's as good as CB gets, which isn't very good.

Antennas are always best mounted in the center of a metal roof. It's just a fact of electrical life. It isn't always possible, but it is the best, for a number of reasons.

If you are serious about truck to truck communication, skip the CB and go straight to 2m. Actually, CB works Ok for short range communication, but if you become interested in RADIO, it isn't the place to be. You need to decide who you want to talk to. If all of your wheeling buddies are CB only, you may as well set up with that.

Hot rodding CBs is not only illegal, it's pointless, when real radio can get you there cheaper, better and legally.

 

[mr r2fj]

I have listened to a hand held 2 meter radio while driving all around Anza~Borrego for a day....and it sounded like Tin.....and faded in and out around the curves and valleys........while my CB Radio kept working. While in the curves and valleys, the 2 Meter was Very short range!

Why are you comparing a hand held 2m radio to your 6' external mounted CB antenna? I do not think CB is worthless at all, but I find it extremely hard to see TECHNOLOGY wise a single area with CB radio is superior. Of course all the technology arguments mean nothing if no one uses your communication of choice and that's where CB usually wins hands down. I hope this changes now that the ham tests are pretty much cake without the code requirement. Only time will tell.

One comment I have about CB technology is that I've found that most people do not do the install correctly. They have no idea what SWR means and do not take the time to properly tune their setup. This is unfortunate because it does a big diservice to CB radio as a good communication standard. This is one area where ham radio is actually easier, where nearly every other aspect is more complicated. Most ham radio installs require zero tuning (thinking 2/440 here). In fact they tell you not to tune the antennas. They work remarkable well just right out of the box. I think this has a LOT to do with why most people who use ham instantly claim it's superiority.

Another major issue with trail communications is that most of us have a huge rack system completely covering the top of our vehicles. This does not lend itself to good antenna installation that seems so extremely paramount to CB setups. This is another area where the ease of install seems to benefit the ham radio technology.


The original poster was asking about specific equipment and I agree with nearly everyone else. If range is what you're looking for, antenna choice and placement will make up for a crappy radio. Spend you time trying to figure out how to get it center roof if possible. Like I already mentioned this isn't easy for most people due to what they may already have on the roof. In addition you may want to consider what kind of trails you like to run. A lot of the stuff we've done even a whip antenna would take quite a beating where the bend point is the roof (compared to say the back bumper or lower rear door).

As for equipment, I've witnessed several setups where the "big box" radios are far superior to the smaller offerings. Generally this comes out more in transmission quality than actual range. There's a lot to be said for good electronics and a nice mic. It really does help. As I said before, I do not recommend the cobra 75, I think it's junk and it's prooved it to me in LOTS of installations, not just my own. You might look at a galaxy 919 (or similar series) as the hard core CBers seem to love galaxy radios. The Uniden Pro510XL isnt' a bad radio if your eally need to save an extra inch or so. I'd definitely recommend that over hte cobra 75. I've used the uniden in my girlfriends 4runner and the quality is acceptable for what it is.

As for ham. I'm with AndrewP. I love my 8800. Detachable face allows you to install it nearly anywhere. The one advantage of the 7800 is that the buttons on the face are lighted. I hate the fact that I can't see the front panel buttons on my 8800, but I appreciate the additional features so it was worth it to me. So I also recommend yaesus radios. When you're ready this is a good choice.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

You know, Scenic, you've convinced me. The 1970s were the highpoint of Western Civilization. Nothing got better after that, I mean, how can you beat the BeeGees, Donna Summer, Jimmy Carter, leisure suits, and Smokey and the Bandit? Nothing good came out of the last 30 years. Really, fuel injection is crap, cell phones are unnecessary, computers just complicate things, the internet is for perverts, and if a 1976 Johnson CB radio is good enough for you, it must be all anyone else ever needs too. Examining alternatives just leads to confusion. You are correct, sir. Your advice is so sage, it bears repeating, wait, you liked it so much you already repeated it twice! Here it is a third time....

:xxrotflma

Are we back to this thread:
http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=384
(A really good read with a ton of good tech both by the CB haters and Ham haters alike, anyone interested in either type of radio CB or H*M)

There will be no more H*M chat in this thread, even if the OP asked for it LOL

 

[Scenic WonderRunner]

Looking to fit a small CB into the Diesel Liberty as space is scarce inside the cab and I'm looking at one of these:

http://www.emartinc.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=220 or something the like.http://www.buy.com/prod/cobra-19dxiv-40-channel-compact-cb-radio/q/loc/66357/90144327.html

My question is - Can you really get decent transmit/receive with one of these? Tuning the antenna and SWR is a must I know but even given those two variables can one of these little cheap units really go the distance?

I want to save space but if saving space means I won't get any longevity out of it there really is no point.

On another off-topic - I'm looking for a nice compact HAM as well. Gonna take my test soon and would be open to suggestions.

Tks,

- JPM

Here is a good Q & A Link that will answer most of your questions about CB Radios.

http://www.advancedspecialties.net/cb-radio-faq.htm



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