Classic Wagoneer as expedition vehicle?

[Camuyano]

Hello all:

This is my first post here. After years of looking for the perfect plaform for a fully-fledged expedition camper, I have come to terms with the fact that I cannot justify such a vehicle given how little offroad use it is bound to see. Lately, I have been toying with the idea of getting an older 4x4 with decent offroad capability to pull a travel trailer and for short backcountry trips.

I would really like a Tacoma or Disco; however, for the wife these are a harder sale, specially the Taco. The other day we saw an almost junk Wagoneer woody and she was remarking on how "cute" this truck was and how cool it would be for long trips and even off-roading with all that interior space. This got my gears turning about the possibility of a Wagoneer-based expedition vehicle.

I would like to get opinions on using the classic Wagoneer as an expedition vehicle. Given that this truck is quickly becoming a classic and that my wife is so in love with its looks, I would not want to make any radical mods to the body or interior. This is no big deal since I also don't plan on tackling particuarly difficult terrain but I would like something fairly realiable and rugged. What are the pros and cons of using such a vehicle for mild expedition travel?

Also, could this truck be too much of a head ache? I am fairly handy but do not have much experience working with engines beyond basic maintenance. I guess a car of this vintage has the advantage of simplicity (no fuel injection for one) but there are bound to be things that need fixing. I may want to go ahead and have the engine and tranny rebuild but I am not sure how much this would cost.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Big Daddy Chia]

I think it would be cool. You get a load of space and there is enough stuff out there to build them up. I would say go for it. If your wife likes it its a good compromise.

 

[Scenic WonderRunner]

I think it's a Kewl Idea!

I've been interested in them myself.

 

[flyingwil]

I have a friend that is building one (75 Cherokee) up right now... just for this. Allthough his was a frame off restoration, to make it capable and safe for his family he has been working on his project truck for just over 1 year now. He just crunched the numbers and the total price of the truck totaled in at just under $30k. Granted he did all the work himself from paint to fabrication of the bumpers, one not skilled in this could see figures much higher than the $30k mark. The issue is sourcing parts and making it work out. The term Saggin' Waggon comes to mind. Back when Stacey David did the TV show Trucks! he did a Wagoneer build up.

So to sum things up you need to consider how mechanically inclined you are and the budget you are willing to spend to make it trail worthy and sourcing parts.

 

[mtnbike28]

Do your research.

I am not much help, but I learned my lesson with my Land Cruiser.

Look for a long time, buy the best body you can find. It is cheaper to rebuild mechanicals than body work/ frame.

Research all you can, I seem to remember the Wagoneer had some weak points, (I think all trucks do) so at least learn what to look for. Also remember to calculate for stuff like fuel mileage too, when comparing to a Tacoma and such.

And again, don't buy the first one you see. But I think they look cool and would be a fun truck for what you plan to use it for.

Jay

 

[big sky trapper]

Good trucks/platforms. Be wary of the pre 73's ... they have some odd ball dana 44's axels that are offset unlike a "traditional" axel. and use some odd ball internals. The drive shafts are 1 1/8" solid and not the strongest. the Quadra trac 4x4 sys can be problematic and very "clunky" as well as the vacum shift motor on them, through about 84 ish. Alot do not have Low Range Tcases just 4 high. But almost all 74's and up came with the TH 400's chevy transmission with a few later ones with the 727 and a999 mopar units, so swaping Tcase's is pretty easy to anything.

Definatly avoid the 327 rambler enigine familly... almost no parts.

The AMC 360 and 401 are almost bombproof motors. Not the greatest MPG's but torque for ever. Extremly simple to work on and maintain in the some what cramped engine comaprtment as they sit up above the frame rails rather high in the compartment.

Aftermarket support is still pretty good, But many offroad goodies such as bumpers sliders ect will have to be locally made.

I would look for one of the early 80's 3/4 tone ones for the best of axels ect...Just becuase of how quickly we end up "overloading" rigs...

Over all a good rig and bonus points for building something "differant"!

 

[LUISJG]

man ..fuel economy will kill you.........:gunt:

 

[\\'anderer]

I had a 78 wagoneer. It had the AMC 360 TH400 trans and a Quadratrac with the low option. The rear power window gave me more headaches than i can remember!!! A strong vehicle, The hardest parts to find will be body and trim parts.

Here is a link to the International Full size jeep association
http://www.ifsja.org/


I will get another Wagoneer someday, I have plans for the next one:Mechanic: (I have a built 401 and a TH400 trans for one in the garage).

 

[mightymike]

Make me an offer!

 

[Grim Reaper]

Great vehicle to start with. It has the right parts. Suspension and axle parts are easily obtained.


Few things I would do if it were mine:

Fuel injection. Fuel injection parts off a 87-89 454 Suburban will bolt on that motor. http://www.affordable-fuel-injection.com can hook you up with harness and prom programming. That will make everything but the harness and Chip available at any parts store.

TH400 is a tough as hell tranny but inefficient. Unfortunaly it has a odd bell-housing that will only fit AMC. Transmission swap to something with OD and lock up converter would do wonders for fuel economy with the FI but it would probably take a very long time to break even with the financial outlay to do it.

Transfer case. Many had a NP203 transfer case. With the high miles a chain is a given. Simple test is on dry pavement put it in low and punch it. Don't turn just go straight for a few feet. If you hear a loud bang that sounds like somebody just hit the bottom of the truck with a 10lb sledge and scares the pajesus out of you...that's the chain jumping a tooth. www.milemarker.com sell the chain.

Honestly I would concider going to a part time case like the NP205 if you don't have the offset rear axle. Gear drive and about bomb proof. Also shave about 100lb off the truck. Should be able to find a bolt up to the TH400 without much problem.

 

[durango_60]

Have you considered a 60 series Landcruiser? Similar classic looks and bulletproof reliability in the same package.


I love the look of the Wagoneer but from what I understand the electronics will give you fits.

 

[Camuyano]

All:

Thanks for all the replies and the great info! Lots to consider here...

Make me an offer!

I'll have to wait until I get home to look at the pic. My work blocks photobucket.

Have you considered a 60 series Landcruiser? Similar classic looks and bulletproof reliability in the same package.

Aren't those harder to find? I love the Toyota reliability having owned a 4Runner and a Taco in the past; however, the wife hated the seats on the Taco. She prefers the domestic truck seats. I would love to find a nice LC60 but haven't seen that many for sale.

man ..fuel economy will kill you.........

That is a concern. We just downsized from a Dodge Ram 2500 with the Hemi partly because of gas prices. We averaged 14 mpg unloaded and about 10 with a 4 wheel pop-up in the back. I understand the Wagoneers give 11 to 15 mpg. Our current rig, a V6 VW Touareg, gives almost 20 highway unloaded but about 15 when towing a travel trailer. I imagine that with a big V8 around town mileage will suck but towing mileage would be about the same. (With the Ram the air dam effect of the camper is what killed us since towing a boat didn't seem to lower the mileage at all.)

Since this is probably going to be a project vehicle, has anybody heard of diesel or even alternative fuel conversions for these vehicles? I know this is bound to be expensive and complex, but it would be cool to take a classic truck such as this and convert it to biodiesel or ethanol and tour the country. That might get some sponsors so I can quit my job and go on the road full time. :wings: (I know; I'm dreamin'...)

Again, Thanks for all the great info.

 

[durango_60]

Aren't those harder to find? I love the Toyota reliability having owned a 4Runner and a Taco in the past; however, the wife hated the seats on the Taco. She prefers the domestic truck seats. I would love to find a nice LC60 but haven't seen that many for sale.

Come out West, they are all over the place and a nce example can be found for 5-6k, just ask durangodds about the screaming deal I gave him on mine .

The seats in the 60 leave plenty to be desired, I put the SOR seat foam in my drivers seat and it made a world of difference. Seats are relatively easy to replace, a friend of mine put some leather seats out of a camry in his 60 and they are glorious.

 

[Camuyano]

Come out West, they are all over the place and a nce example can be found for 5-6k, just ask durangodds about the screaming deal I gave him on mine .

Hey Durango_60:

Going out West is probably an even easier sale for the wife than the truck itself. She's been to San Diego for work at least twice since last fall and keeps going on about how cool it is and how I need to go over there with her next time. Perhaps I'll plan a trip soon and look at a few trucks while we're at it. I wouldn't mind moving out there either since ya'll seem to have so much fun with your toys but property prices scare the crap out of me. :yikes:

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

I have a good friend who had a late 60's one that he used for ever, many many many trips to Baja, etc.. He redid the suspension and I think 32" tires and that was it. For a expedition rig it was great. Biggest Weakness IMO: the piss poor mileage..

That said about 5 years ago he finally traded it in for a super clean '87 FJ60 Land Cruiser...