Commercial Truck Tires

[Redline]

For extremely heavy 'light-trucks' a medium-duty 19.5" truck tire might be the right tire for the job. I'm thinking of 1-ton, or 2-3 ton trucks (F350, F450/F550 type). In most circumstances I think that light-trucks are better off with a light-truck tire, and these days we have a large selection of quality, tough tires in many tread patterns. It always boils down to how you are actually going to use the vehicle. Military/commercial stuffs sounds good, but it is not necessarily the best for overland or typical off-highway 4x4 use. This is not a matter of cost with me because some of the specialty light-truck tires are very expensive and you might actually be able to buy medium-duty tires for about the same money.

I agree with Mr. Aarons about the use of a shorter wheel with more tire. Having said this, the good folks at Rickson wanted me to test a set of their 19.5" wheels on my F350 many years ago. Though this sounded interesting, I knew that this was not the ideal tire and wheel combination for my application. At the time (and since) I have used mostly 255/85R16D tires. The 19.5 wheels don’t have a safety-bead and are not well suited for low pressures for slower off-road use. 19.5” tires will also be firm/stiff. Again, if your light-truck tires are overloaded or not up to the job, then maybe these commercial tires are for you, but I would be careful of choosing commercial tires just because they are cool & different (and I like cool and different ☺ .

For a very short time I ran a set of Michelin 9.00R16 XZL all-steel tires. These are awesome tires for sure, but large, heavy, and stiff. I would bluntly say that they were very loud and I could feel all the lugs hitting the pavement at slow speeds. Unloaded, they were very stiff and I didn’t care for the ride. I had to lower the PSI to around 20-PSI to get a decent ride on my F350 Power Stroke. To clear these 36-in tires I had to put a small spring lift (2-2.5”) on the front, even though I already had an aftermarket bumper with extra clearance. The positive arch springs also reduced ride quality. After only a couple weeks I had the stock springs and 255/85 tires put back on.

 

[psychohawk]

Redline, can I get your opinion? Not hi-jacking the thread because it seems Carl2500, myself and you have similar trucks; mine a 2004 F250 (leaf springs) that I'm looking to add a 4WC.

Wheels: 16" stock
Lift: 6" suspension
Tires (current): 315/75 BFG AT (rub leafs)

What tire set up might you recommend? Sticking with Charlie's statement about tire/rim ratio with a truck that sees, sadly, 95% street/commute duty, the rest off road and fun. My off-road is mainly exploration on graded dirt roads, sand, some snow/ice, not rock-crawling.

I want a tough wheel/tire that isn't prone to flats, good mileage on street with good off road capability with sufficient weight/safety capacity that doesn't worry me. Does this exist? Tall order, huh?

Thanks,
Carl

 

[Redline]

I will give you my opinion, but you know what opinions are like...

Firstly, I have been driving full-sized pickups for many years and the only lift I've added was the 2.5-inch F350 suspension mentioned above which was promptly removed. Many of these trucks were tall stock and really didn't need lift, taller 33-inch tires worked well on stock springs. On my F350 I did tuck the exhaust up higher and had a extreme-duty transfer-case skid manufactured which offers more clearance. The only other rigs that I have lifted are my recent 2005 LJ Rubicon and my '06 4Runner, both lifted about 2.5-3-inches.

If your truck will clear them, or already has them, I would stick with 16-inch wheels. I like the 16-inch tire choices for HD light-trucks. I don't have specific wheel recommendations, you will have to pick your poison. I would suggest not buying too wide a wheel if you might run a narrow tire. A 16x8 should be pretty versatile for several sizes.

I also prefer narrower tires for all the reasons you can read about here on The Portal. To me, a 285/75R16 is a wide tire, and is the widest tire I've ever owned. The reason I say all of this is because you have a 6-inch lift and I assume you won't want to run a shorter/narrower tire. Many people think lots of wheel well opening looks funny while others like it. Would you be willing to go to a shorter, narrower tire, say a 255/85, 285/75, 305/70R16? Thirty-fives are nice but getting them narrower than 12.5-inches is tough.

My neighbor has an '03 F350 PSD with a 6-inch lift. He has some wide (not sure of the size) BFG AT tires with fancy, wide wheels that he purchased when he had the lift installed a few years ago. He is an avid hunter. Last year I traded him a set of barely used Toyo M55 in 255/85R16D. He mounted these on his stock wheels and rarely puts the wider/bigger BFGs back on. He likes how his truck performs on and off-highway with the Toyos. There is a thread here about the M55s and I made several comments there. The M55s took lots of weight compared to the Toyo MTs I have owned, but for your high/typical percentage of highway travel you might really consider this tire, especially if you consider the 255/85R16 size. The 255/85R16 M55 they are now load-range-E, carrying 3,415-lbs per tire at 80-psi (most 255/85 are load-range-D).

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7861&highlight=toyo+M55

Whatever you decide I would suggest you consider a set of Centramatic continuous balancers.

http://www.centramatic.com/

Another tire to consider if you want a 'traction' tire is the Toyo MT. The sidewalls are stiff but this is a very rugged tire with a good reputation for traction and wear with good road manners. The two sets I have owned took very little weight to balance.

You said good milage on the street and to me that means a narrower, smaller tire than a 35x12.50. A narrower and/or shorter tire might also prevent the tires rubbing your springs.

There are lots of other tires to consider, the current & new BFG MT come to mind. A FWC doesn’t weigh very much for a full-sized truck and I would be surprised if you couldn’t find enough tire in a common light-truck size.

Redline, can I get your opinion? Not hi-jacking the thread because it seems Carl2500, myself and you have similar trucks; mine a 2004 F250 (leaf springs) that I'm looking to add a 4WC.

Wheels: 16" stock
Lift: 6" suspension
Tires (current): 315/75 BFG AT (rub leafs)

What tire set up might you recommend? Sticking with Charlie's statement about tire/rim ratio with a truck that sees, sadly, 95% street/commute duty, the rest off road and fun. My off-road is mainly exploration on graded dirt roads, sand, some snow/ice, not rock-crawling.

I want a tough wheel/tire that isn't prone to flats, good mileage on street with good off road capability with sufficient weight/safety capacity that doesn't worry me. Does this exist? Tall order, huh?

Thanks,
Carl

 

[Carlyle]

How rough is a ZXL going to ride versus an XL? Are they both just rough as a cob? Any good deals to be had on the 255/100R16 XZLs?

 

[charlieaarons]

How rough is a ZXL going to ride versus an XL? Are they both just rough as a cob? Any good deals to be had on the 255/100R16 XZLs?

What do you define as "rough"? Both transmit lug vibration at <2 mph the XLs more than XZLs. Likewise both whine at high speeds, again the XLs more. Both ride very well offroad/bad roads due to the large amount of air you're riding on.
No good deals except you could try Dollar Tire in Edmonton, the Canadian Army uses that size); about $6-700 each new.

Charlie

 

[Carlyle]

I left a message with Dollar Tire in Edmonton and we'll see what they have I guess. My local Michelin dealers thought I was cracked to even try and find them. Sounds like most of these military tires are going directly to Iraq right now.

 

[charlieaarons]

You can tell your local Michelin dealers that they are too lazy to pick up the phone, because my local dealer found a set (in a Lower 48 Michelin warehouse) in 3hrs.
I've been hearing this "you can't get them" thing for years. Somehow, by magic, I have sets of : 7.50R16 XCL,8.25R16 XZL, 9.00R16 XZL and XL, 11.00R16 XL, and 4 spare 395/85R20 XZL.

Charlie

 

[Carlyle]

I guess when I'm read to buy I'm going to need the phone of your dealer in AK. LOL! or find one in Colorado that is willing to get off their duff. BTW, are you using a truck tire dealer?

But I still need to design a spare tire rack for the back of my truck. I'm trying to decide if I if I want to go with a swing to the side style that is so common or go with a swing down to the ground that will open up into a set of steps when down. It would need some sort of gas arm assist to compensate for the weight of tire of tires. Any ideas out there?

 

[charlieaarons]

It's Phelps Tire in Anchorage. Maybe they can have them "drop-shipped" to you. Mention my name when you talk to the guy.
Be sure your truck can really handle tires this big before ordering them. The stock front bumper needs to go or be radically trimmed. They will fit fine on stock 16" rims but do '04s run 17 or 18"? If so, just for looks or because of brake caliper diameter? A modest lift is helpful as well.
When designing a spare tire mount remember the tire alone weighs 90 lb; 125-130 lb with a steel rim.
And you will definitely have to re-gear the truck from 3.73 to 4.56. Think about locking diffs if you are going to all this trouble already for a tire best designed for offroad biased overlanding. I like the Detroit Soflocker for the rear 10.5" Sterling axle and of course an ARB airlocker for the front. With a mild lift kit and diff installation w/lockers, and an extra spare this will end up costing 8 Gs.
I want to make it clear this will not end up being an ultimate road cruiser. You can buy those stock with 18-20" wheels. It will be, as mentioned, a very good offroad biased overlander. Because of the tires you will need to keep your speed under 70 mph. And if you are going to drive at 68-70 for long stretches I'd put another 5-8 psi in the tires. After calculating the proper pressures after weighing the truck at both ends, absolutely totally loaded. Michelin publishes inflation tables for all their tires; the offroad types also with general offroad (<40 mph) and mud/sand (<12 mph) pressures. At www.michelintransport.com You have to pick French language if you want the offroad inflation tables.

Charlie

 

[Carlyle]

Thanks for the info Charlie and it gives me more things to ponder and research. On the plus side, I already have a mild lift and an after market bumper that will clear big tires. The truck came standard with 16" wheels as well as the spare set I picked up along the way so that won't be an issue either. If I need to cut and flare the front wheel wells a bit then so be it. Gearing is the big issue and something I will have to research more, obviously more time on the wide world waste of time, aka www.

The rear spare tire mount should be fun to design, but I wonder if anyone has done this sort of thing before? Every time you think something is new you find ten to fifty people who have beat you to it. If not, then I need someone to come up with a CAD or go back to my old paper, pencil and ruler.

Any bored CAD people out there? I'll buy you beer for your trouble.

Thanks again for the insight Charlie.

 

[Redline]

I agree with the 'caution' Charlie Aarons is offering regarding your rig becoming an "off road biased overlander". Lots to think about as you said.

To quote myself from post #16:

For a very short time I ran a set of Michelin 9.00R16 XZL all-steel tires. These are awesome tires for sure, but large, heavy, and stiff. I would bluntly say that they were very loud and I could feel all the lugs hitting the pavement at slow speeds. Unloaded, they were very stiff and I didn’t care for the ride. I had to lower the PSI to around 20-PSI to get a decent ride on my F350 Power Stroke.

I’m not the only one that sees it this way. Today I was in a grocery store and I perused a 4-Wheel & Off-Road magazine article where they tested some very large tires. They tested some Michelin tires, I think they were 11.00R16. I don’t remember their exact words but in a sidebar they basically said the tires were very stiff and would not flex because of their construction and weight carrying capacity. It might be worth a trip to the store to read their opinion.

It’s very hard to decide if this is the direction you want to go and ultimately you may just have to put your money where you curiosity is, that is what I did many years ago. It will be very expensive to try these tires and there is a limited market for them used (and heavy to ship). I'm of the opinion that these all-steel military type tires are the wrong treads for most people who want or need a dual purpose vehicle and/or one that sees lots of highway miles 'getting there'. Ultimately there is only one way to find out it there are right for you, spend you money and give them a go. After my very brief test and ownership experience where I decided I definitely didn’t want to run these are my everyday tire, I considered myself very lucky to find a local buyer and dumped them quick.

Although I like the shorter 16-inch wheels and agree they are better for off-highway it's very possible that if you need or want a heavier-duty tire to carry more weight and last longer with your load, 19.5-inch wheels might be a better choice than the extremely off-road biased Michelin tires.

My three cents.

It's Phelps Tire in Anchorage. Maybe they can have them "drop-shipped" to you. Mention my name when you talk to the guy.
Be sure your truck can really handle tires this big before ordering them. The stock front bumper needs to go or be radically trimmed. They will fit fine on stock 16" rims but do '04s run 17 or 18"? If so, just for looks or because of brake caliper diameter? A modest lift is helpful as well.
When designing a spare tire mount remember the tire alone weighs 90 lb; 125-130 lb with a steel rim.
And you will definitely have to re-gear the truck from 3.73 to 4.56. Think about locking diffs if you are going to all this trouble already for a tire best designed for offroad biased overlanding. I like the Detroit Soflocker for the rear 10.5" Sterling axle and of course an ARB airlocker for the front. With a mild lift kit and diff installation w/lockers, and an extra spare this will end up costing 8 Gs.
I want to make it clear this will not end up being an ultimate road cruiser. You can buy those stock with 18-20" wheels. It will be, as mentioned, a very good offroad biased overlander. Because of the tires you will need to keep your speed under 70 mph. And if you are going to drive at 68-70 for long stretches I'd put another 5-8 psi in the tires. After calculating the proper pressures after weighing the truck at both ends, absolutely totally loaded. Michelin publishes inflation tables for all their tires; the offroad types also with general offroad (<40 mph) and mud/sand (<12 mph) pressures. At www.michelintransport.com You have to pick French language if you want the offroad inflation tables.

Charlie

 

[charlieaarons]

Redline, I couldn't have said it better. Don't buy Michelin military tires unless you really know what you're getting into, are willing to spend the money to match them to an appropriate vehicle, and have a good use for them. Don't buy them just because I happen to like them (Tom Sheppard likes them too!). I was mainly piping up to counter the "can't get them" statement which I've been hearing for years and disproving.
However: the tires in the article were 16.00R20 XZLs, a little bigger: 333 lb (almost 4 times as heavy), 53" tall, 17" wide and designed to carry 14500 lb each. Too big for even my U500, though some have tried. 255/100R16s or 11.00R16s will flex fine under a 1 ton.

Charlie

 

[Redline]

I'm sure you are correct and the tires are available. Many years ago I purchased my 9.00R16s very easily. It was well before the recent wars, but I was able to go into a local Michelin truck tire dealer and order them. Luckily I have a big Michelin warehouse in my city and I had them quickly. This was about 8-years ago and I think they sold the XZLs to me at cost just because they wanted to see someone put them on a pickup, about $250.00 each back then.

These tires are cool because they are different but I know I don't care to run them on the highway much and the 9.00R16s are too big for my pickup. The 8.25s would be neat and should fit without a lift but I’m really happy with many of my 255/85 treads. The 7.50s are a little short but could work on my F350 and 4Runner.

Redline, I couldn't have said it better. Don't buy Michelin military tires unless you really know what you're getting into, are willing to spend the money to match them to an appropriate vehicle, and have a good use for them. Don't buy them just because I happen to like them (Tom Sheppard likes them too!). I was mainly piping up to counter the "can't get them" statement which I've been hearing for years and disproving.
However: the tires in the article were 16.00R20 XZLs, a little bigger: 333 lb (almost 4 times as heavy), 53" tall, 17" wide and designed to carry 14500 lb each. Too big for even my U500, though some have tried. 255/100R16s or 11.00R16s will flex fine under a 1 ton.

Charlie

 

[Carlyle]

So the general consensus is that the Michelin military tires and too rough on the prolonged highway use and I know I'd hear it from the wife on that one... If so, what does that leave a person for tire choices on a 16" rim? A 19.5 rim and tire combination leave you very limited off road ability as you can't air down. To have a decent size tires with some clearance you need, IMHO for what's it's worth 33" or greater. What is available with a decent load rating that is going to wear well and be able to air down? The Nitto's or Toyos' (same company and basically the same tire), are a once a year tires at $200 a piece. Goodyear makes a Kevlar tire called the Silent Armor with a load rating E, but I don't know much else about it.

Any other suggestions out there?

 

[boblynch]

You may want to check out the last few pages of this thread. Milo12 started a discussion of the suitability of using the same tires as the Earthroamer for his Dodge build up. Scott Brady and Charlie offered additional info.

You may want to compare notes with Milo. You appear to have similar requirements. Best of luck. Let us know what tire you pick.

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5328