Communication options

[Jeff Dodgen]

Last week the wife and I decided to take our two year old daughter out for a ride around North Georgia via some FS roads. While in the middle of our most remote part of the trip we had a mechanical failure. This was a failure that I was not able to fix on the trail, and was going to need a tow. While we were pretty remote, I somehow had a faint cell phone signal, and only in the spot we broke down. Maybe because we were on a high ridge. I was able to call my brother-in-law with a Dodge 3500 and trailer to come get me. My iPhone was able to drop a pin on Google, then send him my location. He came right to me. The wife and I are pretty good about wilderness survival if it comes to that, but we don't really want to come to that point with our daughter just yet. This has made me want to find some better way of communicating back in the woods.

As of now I have narrowed it down to two options, both of which I don't know much about. The first one is the InReach by Delorme. http://www.inreachdelorme.com/

Basically it seems this $249 device will link to your cell phone and kinda "convert" your phone into a sat phone. I do kinda like this because I should be able to take this with me on hiking trips and it would accomplish my goal of getting help if something were to happen. What I don't like is its a subscription service you have to buy to be able to access the service, meaning I would be tied to a contract and more money every month. This would not do anything for basic trail communications either compared to my other option which is...

A HAM radio. While this option seems more, involved, I guess is the word, it definately has more options. To the very novice person (me) it appears this is a high power CB that requires a license. The license part does not scare me. I am really just trying to see who has experience with these and what are your feelings. I know there are alot of radio operators out there but does anyone have experience with the InReach? The only thing I don't like about HAM is my understanding is someone has to be listening for help to be summoned. Right now I don't know anyone I could call on one. And while its range is better than a CB, its still not as good as a cell phone.

I honestly want to find a reason to get a HAM, but not just because it appears cool, I want it do what I need. I have heard there is someway to patch a cell phone call with a radio, unsure on this but it would be a HUGE plus. Plus, the radio doesn't have a monthly fee (that I know of) compared to the InReach.

Enough rambling, is a HAM a reliable source of emergency communication for summoning help, or should I spend more money for a device that appears to turn my cell phone into a sat phone?

Again, I am leaning toward a HAM.:sombrero:

 

[Honu]

my thoughts
it all depends on who can come get you ?
one of our local groups has a bunch of contact numbers and many are on ham so getting to them when they are on the radios would be likely but not for sure
a spot or in reach device would be a more for sure reach them by email etc.. since it can get out and then usually will get posted to the forum so a better chance of it getting out maybe
always remember a good overnight kit is a must for the family and glad ya got out OK

I do think both the Ham and the spot type thing are great options and of course most important is someone knowing where you are going when etc.. if you dont make it back they know where to look etc..

to me its a combination thing and again a someone has to be on the receiving end of these ! the nice thing about the spot and in reach type things if its a serious one you can get true emergency help (we had a spot since it came out)

get stuck try to get out and something happens like a broken leg etc..
worst case you get knocked out so wife has to hit the panic button on a spot type thing and get help etc..
or in your case more a break down
break down I want my buddies to come get me
my leg pinned and bleeding under my rig I want SAR to come get me !

I have a spot and want to get a HAM
my thought is the spot while its a monthly fee I can say I do feel OK with paying the insurance type of price
often when we go out we change our mind etc.. where we might go etc.. so our trip plan is not always the most sound with the spot devices it can send coordinates out which could be really huge to get someone to you and again if you cant get the message out your wife could and unless she knows the coordinates might be a bit before people get to you


I am sure some of this is overkill and common sense but more just food for thought


I am thinking of the delorme thing though it was posted on AZFJ the other day and I did some looking seems like a really cool device for keeping in touch updating people etc.. want to hear some more reviews etc.. first

again glad its all OK though and keep going out

 

[Jeff Dodgen]

Thanks for the info. If you don't mind me asking, how much are those SPOTs per month? Delorme asks you to e-mail them for a quote...I wanted just a ball park figure. I have no idea if its $5 a month, or $100 a month.

 

[1911]

Ham (amateur) radio covers a lot of ground, it is way more than "a high power CB". It's range is anything from local up to around the world, depending on the bands you choose to operate on. Last time I went camping in one of my 4WD trucks (in north Texas), I talked to people in Arizona, North Dakota, Los Angeles, and eastern Europe, and I didn't even try to call for more than 20 minutes. Taken as a whole, ham radio will ALWAYS have more range than a cell phone. Again depending on the specific bands, there are almost always other hams listening for calls. There are a lot of hams in the U.S. and world-wide, and always some willing to talk or listen. Even if they're not close by, they could still make a phone call for you in an emergency or help in other ways.

But, you are not going to get that kind of range with a typical 2 meter radio that most hams use for a trail radio (though even that would still have 10-20X the power and range of a CB). To talk across the country and the world, you are going to need an HF (High Frequency) radio and at least a General Class license to operate it, and you are looking in the $1,000+ range for a modern mobile HF radio and antenna. If you have the money and interest, it would certainly fit your criteria though.

Depending on where you like to travel/camp etc., it's possible there may be a good network of 2 meter repeaters that cover a large area. If you can reach a repeater there is a good chance you could find someone to talk to fairly close by, within 50-100 miles or so. A 2 meter mobile radio and antenna can be had for about $200 new and less used.

 

[Jeff Dodgen]

My area 90% of the time is Northern Georgia, Western North Carolina, and Eastern Tennessee. Compared to out west this area is always "close" to civilization, even though what happened to us is still out of range and creates a burden. I do have a group of friends that have interest in getting into 2M or more...I think they are just waiting on someone like me to be the first to commit. Maybe its just the firefighter in my that wants to have a radio in my Jeep.

That actually brings up something I was wondering. Would it be possible to tune into my department on a HAM radio? I am sure being an employee there I would be granted permission to access it if I had the capabilities.

 

[1911]

That actually brings up something I was wondering. Would it be possible to tune into my department on a HAM radio? I am sure being an employee there I would be granted permission to access it if I had the capabilities.

It depends on the exact equipment your department is using. Older public service equipment frequencies are in the VHF band that most 2 meter radios can listen to, but not transmit on. I can hear my local and county emergency traffic on mine. But the newer equipment coming out now can't be tuned or scanned by regular radios anymore.

You can't buy a radio that will transmit on both, because the licensing is different for each.

 

[Jeff Dodgen]

Gotcha. I live in a rural area with a department that I "help" every now and then. I bet I could hear them. My career department is in Metro Atlanta and we switched to a new system a few years ago, which they just called the "800 system". I don't know anything about radios now except how to push the button and talk, and change channels.:snorkel:

 

[rjcj-8]

If you go the HAM route with a decent mobile rig you should be able to get out in most places in NGA. There are several repeters that you should be in range of most of the time. I've sat at Lake Conasauga (Cohuttas) and been able to lessen to conversations on the Dalton or Chatsworth repeaters but with a hand held not have enough power to get out to hit it myself with 5W but with a better mobile rig would have been able to hit several in the area.

 

[Honu]

Thanks for the info. If you don't mind me asking, how much are those SPOTs per month? Delorme asks you to e-mail them for a quote...I wanted just a ball park figure. I have no idea if its $5 a month, or $100 a month.

Forgot what the spots are ? Its on autocharge $150 a year or so ? Cause I have the track thing on mine

Here is the azfj link that someone tried to paste the delorme pricing into its kinda mixed up
http://azfj.org/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=6461

So seems like basic is about 120 a year with tracking is about $250

Not sure if there are other options ?

Why I want to look into it more

My spot is the old original they have a few models
You can have a help button programmed with some peoples contact info
Or send a OK
Or send a true emergency help 911

I cant see the need for messaging since I am with my family when we go out and dont want to be posting to facebook etc... I am gone
So for me messaging is not needed really the spot does what I need just curious if things have gotten better


My end goal plans
I have been thinking of just getting a PLB like a resQlink unit since I have noticed I can almost always get a cell signal and the plb would be my true emergency setup and when I get my ham it will be for non emergency come help me things if my cell wont work

 

[DreamingOfExpeditions]

Some comments from a soon to be HAM, (I've studied hard, just haven't had the time to take the test, but I can ACE every online practice exam!). I'm interested in HAM for sort of the same reasons as you, as long range communication in a non-cell area. Also, I intend to involve my children eventually as this is a great thing we can do together to learn about geography (DX'ing) and science.

HAM in general is intended to support emergency response (ARES) and amateur radio. Depending on your capability its possible that large ranges can be achieved, and yes it is possible to make telephone connections over HAM. It's also possible to make internet connections, TV broadcasts, even talk to the international space station. Also, there are some bands where HAMS can operate but don't have primary use, that may be used by Emergency services. But in general as for what your asking, keep HAM for HAM and the fire and rescue bands for F&R. HAM Bands are allocated for amateur radio for the most part. As a general rule you may be able to listen to an EMS band, but not broadcast on one. There's laws you can break by using them incorrectly. Say you were stuck, you could call a HAM for help, but asking him to tell work you'll be late so cancel a meeting, would break the law (you'd be conducting business).

I'll probably go with a DStar rig when I get my license. DStar and similar technologies (IRLP, Echolink) allow VOIP connections of HAM, so distance when using available nodes and repeaters can be world wide. In general a starter rig in a vehicle is going to be a 2M/70cm dual band, and is probably what my first radio is going to be. 6 Meter and longer require larger and large antennae set ups.

Start up costs in HAM can be low for used or as much as you want to spend. There are no operational costs, as with a satellite service, but with any hobby expect to spend money. The cost between the two is irrelevant. I would venture to say, if it was purely about cost and money, go with the satellite option. Your technology is fixed, there's a very low barrier to entry, and when your done you shut it off.

HAM has almost no cost of entry ($15 for the testing fee at most). Add in the cost of a small hand held and your broadcasting. But like all technology things, there's upgrades, new equipment, better equipment, etc.

Here's some interesting HAM facts that may help:

1. There is no age requirement to get your license (my son should be able to pass around age 10 or 11)
2. There is no morse code requirement to pass anymore
3. you can connect some HAM radios to a GPS device and have your position brodcasted to an easily viewed internet site
4. You can send a form of text messages from HAM to HAM
5. You can take all three exams at once and get the final and highest level of license, Amateur Extra.
6. Here in NJ, you can't talk on your cell phone while driving, but you can talk on a HAM.

 

[cnynrat]

If the primary purpose is to call for help in case of emergency, I think I'd be looking for a Personal Locater Beacon (PLB) rather than a ham radio. The reason being is that they I think they provide a higher probability of successfully getting your emergency message to the right people. Ham radios are great for general communications, but in remote areas I just don't think you can always count on being able to reach someone, particularly on VHF/UHF frequencies. If you were up for an HF ham rig that might be different, but they bring another level of cost.

Within the realm of PLBs you have two general choices. There are products such as Spot and In-Reach that are generally sold at an attractive up front price, but require a monthly subscription in return. Sort of like the cell phone business model. The benefit of these devices is they offer some features and capabilities that go beyond just getting a basic emergency message transmitted to the authorities.

There are also PLB's that are sold with a higher initial price, but then require no recurring subscription fee. These units typically just offer the capabilty to send your current location along with an emergency message. ACR is one of the better known brands, but there are others out there.

Equipped to Survive is a great web site for information on PLB products and technology.

 

[agavelvr]

Ideally, based upon your needs, you would have both a HAM and an InReach/Spot.
I had a Spot, and now have an InReach. I chose the InReach for a couple of reasons... My wife has no interest in learning how to use a HAM radio. If something was to happen to me, the InReach will allow my wife to summon help and be in communication with friends or SAR via 2 way text messaging. A child could activate the SOS in an emergency, I'm not sure they would be able to use a HAM as effectively. I don't really need continous tracking, but like the idea of 2 way texting during an inconvenience or crisis.

I opted for the basic plan, which gives you 10 text messages a month. That's plenty for me, as we only take 4 big trips per year and I can pay for additional messages or tracks as needed. If I was taking a long trip every month, it would probably make sense to go for a more inclusive plan. $120 a year is an acceptable fee for what is provided IMHO, and I'm fairly cheap Going with the basic plan and paying for overages is probably more economical for most folks, unless you feel the need to have continuous tracking and lots of messages. I'm paying 25 cents per track point, $1.50 per message for overages and not really worrying about it.

An added bonus for the InReach is that your IPAD is transformed into a satellite messager and navigation device with a big screen. When hiking, an Iphone replaces a hand held gps with the same features. I downloaded the entire western US onto my IPAD for free and impressed so far.

 

[h2005]

Inreach plans
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=103296&d=1338602887

 

[Jeff Dodgen]

Also, there are some bands where HAMS can operate but don't have primary use, that may be used by Emergency services. But in general as for what your asking, keep HAM for HAM and the fire and rescue bands for F&R. HAM Bands are allocated for amateur radio for the most part. As a general rule you may be able to listen to an EMS band, but not broadcast on one. There's laws you can break by using them incorrectly. Say you were stuck, you could call a HAM for help, but asking him to tell work you'll be late so cancel a meeting, would break the law (you'd be conducting business).[/LIST]

I appreciate your detailed explanation on HAM, but maybe I didn't explain this part too well. I have been employed as a FFII/EMT-I for a larger fire department for going on 14 years now. We have over 300 employees and run about 25,000 calls a year. I also worked part time in Dahlonega and still stop in to see all my buddies there. North of Dahlonega I have a knack for running up on bad wrecks while out exploring. I mean, the day I broke down we passed a serious motorcycle wreck and had no cell service...and only one other person was there. This is where I would like to contact them. These times with an extended response time from my buddies the HAM would come in handy. I mentioned it to Chief about contacting units on the radio for a call and he was fine with it...I know what to say and what they need to know. If I *were* to use it for a personal need in the area, I would *possibly* contact my off roading friend that is an LT. there on the training channel. This channel is used even to tell another unit to bring you lunch...its more a convienence channel for them. Again, using those channels to help me out of a personal jam would be slim to mosy likely none....but I just thought it was cool to have the option.

Ideally, based upon your needs, you would have both a HAM and an InReach/Spot.

I believe this is going to be the route I take.

Inreach plans
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=103296&d=1338602887

Thanks for those! I only saw where you had to e-mail them for a quote....and I honestly didn't really feel like doing that yet.






And thanks for all the responses so far. I am pretty much sold on getting one as my trail riding friends are very interested if I jump in first. This should bring me much better communications while out exploring, and maybe help summon the right resources for that next bad wreck I come upon.

 

[DreamingOfExpeditions]

I really think it's a technical issue more than anything. Outside of home brew stuff, most commercial radios don't allow broadcast on non-HAM channels. Only listen. Maybe an Elmer can clarify?

Certainly you speaking the lingo would help. A HAM monitor for emergency should be able to relay the message as it was delivered.

My recommendation, go for it! I'm currently in the planning stage of my expo rig, but I see options for both. I'll do HAM first though.