Comparing prices expedition vehicles

[Michel Szulc Krzyzanowski]

I did research recently about the prices of expedition vehicles in the USA and Europe.
Quite amazing results showing that European expedition vehicles are considerably cheaper.
For a full report, conclusions and all the details go to:

http://michelszulckrzyzanowski.blogspot.com/2009/01/comparing-costs.html

 

[charlieaarons]

In American slang we call that "comparing apples and oranges". The chassis are different. If you try to buy a U500 or 5000 in Europe it will cost MUCH more than the MAN - 70,000 euros or so. It has a few extra features:
CTIS, lower low range gearing, disc brakes to name a few.
And Mike's campers have some things not standard on "low-optioned" European campers which will raise the price considerably, like a generator and air conditioning.
I think if you build a similarly optioned camper on near identical chassis, the price will be the same.
You don't see many European expedition campers on new Unimogs any more because the MAN and Mercedes conventional truck chassis are so much cheaper.

Charlie

 

[haven]

Thanks for the update about the European market for expedition vehicles. Langer & Bock is a highly respected company, the equal in quality to Unicat and Action Mobil.

Michel, does this mean you're considering replacing your Fuso FG camper with a larger model?

The reason Global Expedition Vehicles is using a 2005 Unimog U500 chassis is because newer models don't meet emissions rules in USA, and are no longer imported. My understanding is that after 2010, emissions rules for trucks will be similar in USA and Europe, so maybe we will see European 4x4 trucks in USA again.

The second barrier to European truck importation is a 25% tariff on trucks assembled outside North America. This tax was enacted back in 1963, in retaliation for a big increase on import fees that European countries imposed on processed chicken exported from USA.

The 25% tariff on imported trucks was almost repealed in 2005, when a free trade agreement with Thailand was under consideration. All the Asian auto makers have truck plants in Thailand.

The proposed treaty was opposed by USA auto makers, who feared that low cost trucks from Thailand would force them to lower prices on trucks built in USA. The treaty was opposed by auto workers, too, because the effect might be to reduce the number of people employed to build trucks here. There was opposition in Thailand to the free trade agreement as well, but about issues other than trucks.

The Thai people forced their president out of office in 2006, and the free trade negotiations have stalled for now. Given the poor financial condition of USA auto makers today and the big decline in the purchase of commercial vehicles due to tightening credit, it's unlikely that the protection of the 25% tariff will be repealed anytime soon.

Chip Haven

 

[haven]

Michel,

Can you tell us if ultra-low sulfur diesel (ULSD) fuel is available anywhere in Baja? Starting in 2007, emissions rules in USA required the use of ULSD in new diesel trucks sold in USA. The ULSD protects the emissions control equipment.

Chip Haven

 

[Michel Szulc Krzyzanowski]

No, Chip, no diesel in Mexico but the conventional fuel. But I have seen new German expedition vehicles that are equipped with a device so they can tank any kind of diesel. If that device would become available in the USA, the doors open to many American diesel trucks to cross the borders.

The only recent modernization in Mexico is that at many Pemex stations one can pay now with a credit card.

 

[Sleeping Dog]

Chicken tax

The second barrier to European truck importation is a 25% tariff on trucks assembled outside North America.

Chip Haven

Chip, my memory is fuzzy, but didn't Daimler bring the U500s into the US as kits, assembled at Freightliner? Thereby avoiding the tax.

Jim

 

[charlieaarons]

The NA U500 was entirely assembled in Worth, Germany. But it was defined as an "implement carrier", not as a cargo truck. So it escaped the 25% "chicken tariff". The only part assembled at Freightliner was the aluminum bed, which was optional.
I had to pay 2.5% duty on my camper body, incidentally.

Charlie

 

[egn]

Is this 25 % tariff also valid for complete motor-homes?

But, I think that it would be no good idea to import an MAN based expedition motor home in the states, at least if you are on the road mostly in North America. I didn't find any service locations in North America.

 

[charlieaarons]

The duty for complete motorhomes is also 2.5%, not 25%. So theoretically if MAN or Mercedes would homologate (EPA, DOT) a 12-18 ton chassis and send it Unicat or someone to build a camper body that looked fairly tightly attached, one would only pay 2.5% duty. They would need to set up a sales, service and parts network like they did for the U500. Incidentally I have no trouble getting parts for my U500, including odd ones like wheel bearings. The only part I had to order from Merex in Germany was the U-joints in the prop shaft, they want to sell the entire shaft only in the US.

Charlie

 

[mhiscox]

Chip, my memory is fuzzy, but didn't Daimler bring the U500s into the US as kits, assembled at Freightliner? Thereby avoiding the tax.

Jim

Not the Mog, but this is what was done (and still is) with Sprinter vans. It's pretty goofy . . . cargo and passenger Sprinters are built on the same assembly line in Germany, and when the passenger vans--on which there is no tariff--are done, they get shipped to the U.S. dealer network. However, the cargo vans are then disassembled by a group of German workers, then the parts--on which the 25% tariff doesn't apply--are shipped to the Carolinas where a team of American workers puts them back together.

 

[kerry]

Not the Mog, but this is what was done (and still is) with Sprinter vans. It's pretty goofy . . . cargo and passenger Sprinters are built on the same assembly line in Germany, and when the passenger vans--on which there is no tariff--are done, they get shipped to the U.S. dealer network. However, the cargo vans are then disassembled by a group of German workers, then the parts--on which the 25% tariff doesn't apply--are shipped to the Carolinas where a team of American workers puts them back together.

Seems like it would be easier to go the route that Subaru did with the Brat. Put the seats in the vans in Germany, pull them out when they get to the US and turn them into cargo vans. Ship the seats back to Germany for the next round.

 

[762X39]

It's pretty goofy . . . cargo and passenger Sprinters are built on the same assembly line in Germany. However, the cargo vans are then disassembled by a group of German workers, then the parts--on which the 25% tariff doesn't apply--are shipped to the Carolinas where a team of American workers puts them back together.

We have a Sprinter cargo van in our fleet and it as well as the dealer service (Chrysler) has been very disappointing.My boss is german and won't be buying another one until Chrysler is taken out of the loop.
It is suffering from rusting all over the place (around the edges and under hinges and stuff) and has been in the shop to get repainted twice now (under warranty and you can tell they didn't want to do it). I would hate to think that it was poorly built by Mercedes in the first place since I plan on owning a few more Benz' in my lifetime.

 

[kerry]

Mercedes vans have never had a great reputation for resisting rust. Don't know why. Their cars seem to do better. (having owned both)

 

[762X39]

I guess I'll buy that C series Kompressor 2 door after all.:smiley_drive:

 

[Michel Szulc Krzyzanowski]

Michel, does this mean you're considering replacing your Fuso FG camper with a larger model?

There is now a story on my blog explaining what are the intentions with my FUSO FG expedition vehicle.
It could very well become available for adoption!
Check: http://www.michelszulckrzyzanowski.blogspot.com
Posting of January 23, 2009