custom rear bumper

I Leak Oil

Expedition Leader
Well so far I've seen plenty of banter about the way the criticism of the bumper has come out. There is some good info so now how has the builder used it to learn and not make the same technical mistakes again? I haven't heard anyone say "I didn't know that, I'll take that route next time" Not being polite can be far less harmful than someone being maimed by a flying recovery mount.

So is this just a hollow, "look what I did" thread or are we trying to learn from one anothers experiences so we don't make the same mistakes?
 
S

stu454

Guest
Yes, and it's not on ExPo.

1LegLance's explanation of the difference between being rude and being critical was spot on. It's just an adult thing - the ability to point out flaws and discuss weaknesses in someone else's work (or opinions) without being mean.

Of course it's a good thing to criticise poor design, correct misconceptions, identify dangerous practices etc. But one can do that constructively, and without subjecting the person to ridicule. (Indeed, several people did so). Quite apart from the unpleasantness, it's counter-productive to be mean and dismissive of someone's efforts or opinions. They naturally get defensive, and fight back instead of analysing the criticism. Other readers just see a bunfight instead of an interesting or enlightening discussion.

If you can't see the difference, or can't see why it's important that a person can expect criticism without ridicule, don't post at all!

The first two lines of my post still stand for comment.
 

kellymoe

Expedition Leader
Well so far I've seen plenty of banter about the way the criticism of the bumper has come out. There is some good info so now how has the builder used it to learn and not make the same technical mistakes again? I haven't heard anyone say "I didn't know that, I'll take that route next time" Not being polite can be far less harmful than someone being maimed by a flying recovery mount.

So is this just a hollow, "look what I did" thread or are we trying to learn from one anothers experiences so we don't make the same mistakes?


Why would the original poster come back? If you kick a dog everytime it makes a mistake it either stops trying or runs away.

I have two kids that make mistakes everyday, if I tell them idiots before I tell them how to fix the problem they focus on idiot, not the solution. Why would this be any different?

How many of you would talk the same way to someone face to face that you have never met? You better be a good runner or a good fighter.
 

alexrex20

Explorer
The reason "land rover guys" have a hard time with this kinda stuff is simple. Land Rovers are very purpose built trucks and they draw enthusiasts to them that appreciate well thought out purpose built equipment. That bumper is neither well thought out or purpose built for what land rovers are used for so you are going to hear about it when you go on a Land Rover enthusiast site and hang it out there as a custom rear bumper.


i don't know about you, but the vast majority of land rovers i see are shuttling trophy wives from the nail salon to the hair salon.
 

I Leak Oil

Expedition Leader
Why would the original poster come back? If you kick a dog everytime it makes a mistake it either stops trying or runs away.

I have two kids that make mistakes everyday, if I tell them idiots before I tell them how to fix the problem they focus on idiot, not the solution. Why would this be any different?

We're not talking about kicking dogs or talking to children. The guy posted his work, it got critiqued. Some critisized it in a way I wouldn't have done but it's still pretty harmless but to the point. To have to run or be tough to call someone's work "crap" says more about the guy being criticized if you ask me.
 

kellymoe

Expedition Leader
We're not talking about kicking dogs or talking to children. The guy posted his work, it got critiqued. Some critisized it in a way I wouldn't have done but it's still pretty harmless but to the point. To have to run or be tough to call someone's work "crap" says more about the guy being criticized if you ask me.

Really? You would walk up to someone you have never met and call their work or truck crap or worse? Or you condone that type of behavior? If I really knew the person I would let fly with a slamming criticism because that is the way me and my close friends communicate. If someone I had never met asked the same question I would give a honest opinion without the slam and name calling. It's not about having tough skin it's about being a decent person and treating others with respect even while telling them their bumper doesnt quite cut it. Whats the harm in that?

Everyone knows that Expedition Portal tries to maintain a forum where people treat each other with respect, this doesnt mean you cant tell someone their bumper is weak or dangerous.

And what is the harm in considering someones feelings while responding to a post? Can someone give a reason why this is wrong or weak?
 

I Leak Oil

Expedition Leader
Really? You would walk up to someone you have never met and call their work or truck crap or worse? Or you condone that type of behavior?

Where did I say I would do that or agree with doing it like that? Where? Read again. I said some of it was done in a way that I would not have done it. Please don't put words in my mouth.
I agree with being more respectful when being critical but in the end they are just words.
Again, I hope Warpath4x4 and anyone else reading this will step back and gain some knowledge from the criticism so next time something is built it will be better and safer. That should be all of our goals.
Peace...
 
S

stu454

Guest
By the by, do the moderators of the Land Rover section own any Land Rovers?

Or are they just the Courtesy Police?
 

Jonathan Hanson

Supporting Sponsor
Well, let's see . . .

Graham and Connie drove their 110 from London to Cape Town.

Does that count?

And is it necessary to own a Land Rover to recognize discourtesy?
 
S

stu454

Guest
I was making the point that someone moderating a Rover forum might own a Rover.

Good for Graham and Connie; btw I was on a ride with Graham at the Nat'l Rally in '08.

Your post was dangerously close to being snippy and rude.

My feelings may have been hurt.

The sarcasm and ham-handed attempts at humor in my posts are not intended to ruffle anyone's feathers.

Well, maybe a little.
 

Jonathan Hanson

Supporting Sponsor
I believe this thread has been helpful in delineating what I thought seemed obvious, but which in retrospect I realize might not have been to everyone, regarding our policy of allowing objective criticism but not personal character attacks.

To me there's an obvious line between writing, "I think that bumper is dangerous and ugly," and, "I think you're a moron for building a bumper that is dangerous and ugly."

When someone posts here about a modification, a build project, or a tip, he should expect honest input and opinions about the modification, build project, or tip. He has no reason to expect spurious remarks about his character or intelligence, or sarcastic dismissals void of constructive suggestions.

We try to take every member at face value here, and give everyone the same chance, even if he might have developed a bad reputation elsewhere. If someone proves to be a repetitive source of false or dangerous information, it will become obvious sooner or later, hopefully sooner. That happened quite recently in this very section, and the person in question was banned as a preventive measure, to avoid having an inexperienced Land Rover owner be victimized by bad advice the rest of the members might have missed in context.

Nevertheless, despite the whinging of those who call us Nazis, I believe we have permanently banned fewer people than I can count on my fingers. On one hand. Given 10,000 members, a commitment to remain family-friendly, and, yes, a no-tolerance policy for employing puerile locker-room obscenities as a substitute for vocabulary, we seem to be doing pretty well.

Too much to ask? For some, it obviously is, but that's a reflection on them, not us or the other 10,000 people who have fun here and learn a lot.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
185,982
Messages
2,880,507
Members
225,705
Latest member
Smudge12
Top