Cutting down my winch line to 50'?

[mcneil]

My jeep TJ has a 8000lb rated winch with 100' of 3/8 synthetic rope, and I'm thinking about cutting that in half. I've noticed that I'm typically spooling out as much line as possible to get lower on the drum for more pull force, and also, I have never winched more than 50' without having to stop and re-rig or change angle.

I was thinking about taking the 50' I cut off and splicing the ends into eyes to make an extension line.

Does this make sense, and have others done the same?

 

[Hill Bill E.]

Makes good sense. Up here, most winch points are well within 50' (lots of trees)

And if you need more, then you use the winch extension.

Having fewer wraps on the drum, will allow the winch to work at a higher rate than if the drum is half full.


I keep boogering up the end of my rope, so it's down to about 80' now (from 100')

I carry my 50' extension, but have only used it once or twice.

 

[HillbillyfromAL]

Do you just spool out because you want the extra pull power, or do you need it? Would it have pulled the truck without too much strain on the winch? If your pulls are usually around say 30-40ft from winch to anchor then 50ft starts cutting into your recovery options. If your just tired of the hassle of wire rope go synthetic. I'd definitely keep the 100ft though as it adds to recovery options. JMHO

 

[Eventhough]

It's fine to do but realize that with 50' of line on your winch you will probably only have about 40' of reach. You need at a minimum around 8 wraps on the drum to keep the line attached to the winch drum. That little spade connector, other little metal connector, or duct tape won't do it. Your 50' piece you cut off will give you about 45' of length after your splices.

What is the make/model of your winch? Many, maybe most, 8000 lb winches spec 85' of 3/8" line. 100' will fit but it is tight and can cause problems in a angled winch scenario.

 

[mcneil]

It's a Recon, and they spec it at 10,500 lbs, but it's the same size as most of the warn 8000lb winches. I notice they sell it with 85' of 7/16 now, which still seems like too much for that drum.
http://truckandwinch.com/recon-10-500-lb-winch.html
It doesn't have a name-brand pedigree, but it has all the features a good winch should have, and I got mine for less than $400 with a neoprene winch cover.

I've used it with snatch blocks to extract larger vehicles (but then again, everything is larger than a TJ), and I think I have about a 1:1 ratio of extracting my jeep vs extracting something else.

I had the idea to cut down the rope when I was winching up a washout full of boulders. I realized that I was never pulling more than a trucklength before I had to re-rig to change direction. Anchor points were 200 feet away, so I was using a long strap as an extension. The problem with doing a continuous long pull is that you can't keep tension on the line the whole time, so you might pull 10 ft up over a ledge, then as the truck starts to roll into the next hole, the winch is spooling up a slack line. When you hit the back side of that hole, the winch starts winding tight over the slack winds, which with synthetic will damage the rope.

But I'm thinking I probably should measure 50' off the first 8 wraps, instead of cutting the line down to 50' total.

 

[Metcalf]

I did something similar on my old belleview winch....

I 'only' put 95' of 3/8" synthetic line on the drum. This gives me a reach of about 80'. The belleview is similar to the 8274 and has a pretty large drum capacity (150' of 5/16, steel ). I could probably fit another 60' of synthetic line on the drum with little issue. Having a little less line makes it much easier to manage, ie bunching on one side of the drum when pulling at an angle. 150' is a LONG ways to reach out if you need to though and I miss that, hopefully an extension will fix that issue.

 

[cnynrat]

I went though this thought process when I was looking to buy a synthetic rope for my 9.5ti. Some possibly interesting discussion in this thread.

In the end I decided to put a full length rope on the winch, and although I've never needed more than 30-40', I've also never felt that the longer rope was a problem.

 

[mcneil]

Good info in that thread. Consistent opinion there is you can never have too much line.

The issue I have with longer rope is that synthetic has to be packed very tight or else pulling on top of 5+ layers causes damage to the rope. I always pack the line under tension onto the drum, but that's often not possible on the trail. I already damaged the line once making a short pull after having spooled out for a long pull and not repacking tight enough.

 

[opie]

What kind of damage are you seeing?

I like the idea of not packing the drum full and carrying an extension.

 

[Metcalf]

Good info in that thread. Consistent opinion there is you can never have too much line.

The issue I have with longer rope is that synthetic has to be packed very tight or else pulling on top of 5+ layers causes damage to the rope. I always pack the line under tension onto the drum, but that's often not possible on the trail. I already damaged the line once making a short pull after having spooled out for a long pull and not repacking tight enough.

I don't think you can have too much line in the vehicle, but you can have too much line on the drum....

I too would like to see what kind of damage your getting?

 

[mcneil]

Give me till tomorrow and I'll spool it out and get a picture, until then bear with my attempt at description:

Picture 4 wraps on the drum, so about 20-30 ft of line payed out. When the pull begins and the winch draws tension in the line, the extended line is being spooled up over all the other wraps. The line begins to pull down into the drum, squeezing between the lower wraps. The friction generated by the line pinching between the other wraps abrades and otherwise damages the line.

This is why you're supposed to wind up the line under tension, to keep that from happening. But it takes a few hundred pounds of tension to get the drum tight enough to prevent that. When I first load or re-pack the winch, I load it by pulling the jeep up a small grade (my driveway). If you do that, you can pull on the top layer without any damage.

Note: I think it happens more with synthetic rope than steel, but I have seen this with steel too.

 

[Metcalf]

Give me till tomorrow and I'll spool it out and get a picture, until then bear with my attempt at description:

Picture 4 wraps on the drum, so about 20-30 ft of line payed out. When the pull begins and the winch draws tension in the line, the extended line is being spooled up over all the other wraps. The line begins to pull down into the drum, squeezing between the lower wraps. The friction generated by the line pinching between the other wraps abrades and otherwise damages the line.

This is why you're supposed to wind up the line under tension, to keep that from happening. But it takes a few hundred pounds of tension to get the drum tight enough to prevent that. When I first load or re-pack the winch, I load it by pulling the jeep up a small grade (my driveway). If you do that, you can pull on the top layer without any damage.

Note: I think it happens more with synthetic rope than steel, but I have seen this with steel too.

Keeping the winch line taught on the drum, especially on the lower layers is important, but don't get too worked up over some light fray on the line.

Over time it will get pretty fuzzy looking. This donesn't really hurt the lines performance at all. In general synthetic line is REALLY durable. Most of the time when you get a flat or pinch in the line you can just work it back out with your fingers working the line like one of those old Chinese finger cuff toys.

It's hard to watch your new smooth and shiny winch line get worked, but in general getting the line pinched and wrapped in the other layers on the winch drum isn't a big deal, and it is going to happen.All you really need to do is make sure to keep the 1st and 2nd layer tight and fairly neat, most of the other stuff can just do anything you want. Wash the line out when it gets dirty.

 

[opie]

Give me till tomorrow and I'll spool it out and get a picture, until then bear with my attempt at description:

Picture 4 wraps on the drum, so about 20-30 ft of line payed out. When the pull begins and the winch draws tension in the line, the extended line is being spooled up over all the other wraps. The line begins to pull down into the drum, squeezing between the lower wraps. The friction generated by the line pinching between the other wraps abrades and otherwise damages the line.

This is why you're supposed to wind up the line under tension, to keep that from happening. But it takes a few hundred pounds of tension to get the drum tight enough to prevent that. When I first load or re-pack the winch, I load it by pulling the jeep up a small grade (my driveway). If you do that, you can pull on the top layer without any damage.

Note: I think it happens more with synthetic rope than steel, but I have seen this with steel too.

I dont think what you are seeing is permanent damage to the line. You might start seeing some fuzz as Metcalf suggested. You may also be seeing some glazing on the line. Where it looks like the line has gotten hot and started to melt. This is a normal phenom with synthetic lines when put under tension/compression against itself. One will normally see this on the first wrap of the drum after much use. I have a picture somewhere of what Samson suggest in regards to line degradation and when it should be retired. Ill see if I can find it.

ETA: Found it....

http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...ty-quot-Thimble-yea-right?p=808877#post808877

 

[crawler#976]

To shorten the line you can do several things, the best being a pulley block. Yeah, it's slower, but that's OK. I always try to start with 8 wraps on the spool, so the pulley gets used frequently.

The second option is using a sheepshank with cinch bones to shorten the line. Using a knot does reduce the capacity, but there are times you don't need 100% ofthe power, and most synthetic line is way over spec of the winch in any circumstance. http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...A-survival-skills-Northern-AZ-06-Oct-12/page9 has pictures of the setup.

Shortening the line on the drum is fine too. Just get another 50' extension so you can reach out if required. The only problem I see is if you need to do a double line pull, you've severely limited your reach. You can attach the pulley to an extension, but it better be a 7/16" or 1/2" dia rope to handle the load.

 

[Eventhough]

...Using a knot does reduce the capacity, but there are times you don't need 100% ofthe power, and most synthetic line is way over spec of the winch in any circumstance. ...

Most synthetic line is stronger than your winch but you want a safety margin built in. Your winch line can easily experience more pulling power than what your winch can put out when you dynamically weight your line, which is why its good to have a 1.5:1 safety factor of winch line to winch strength, and more is preferable without going over the deep end. More than a 1.5:1 safety factor is not always possible though without getting in to real wide line, especially when you have a 15k or 16.5k winch. Also consider strength degradation of your synthetic line due to wear.